Could you stand living in a scout ship?

[wbyrd]

Back in my younger days I worked on a smallih work boat captained by my Brother In Law. It had about the same living area a an S-type. Let me tell ya even a few days could get pretty cramped. after a while you learn to live in cramped quarters and you can deal with the cramped quarters, and the presence of people who may need a shower more often than they are getting one.
I will assure you though, the first sight of land, and a chance to walk in a straight line for more than ten paces feels good.

 

[Blue Ghost]

Which leads to the question of if there's enough water for a crew of four to last a two week trip from system to system. Or would you have to ration it? I never thought to prod my players to keep track of their water consumption during a session.

 

[Spinward Scout]

Which leads to the question of if there's enough water for a crew of four to last a two week trip from system to system.

About 1 gallon drinking water per day per person for 4 people is 56 gallons for 2 weeks and is about 450 pounds. Double that for a month and you're not even at a half a ton.

Water for showers and such would add to that.

 

[Xerxeskingofking]

Which leads to the question of if there's enough water for a crew of four to last a two week trip from system to system. Or would you have to ration it? I never thought to prod my players to keep track of their water consumption during a session.

really, with a fusion power plant to provide power, you'd need a lot less than a modern ship would, as you could recycle most of it fairly easily.

 

[Blue Ghost]

Interesting. I think I heard a little factoid that the average American uses 32 gallons a day. Multiplied by four people over 14 days ... 1792 gallons.

1 gal ~ 0.0314913957935 tons

1792 * 0.0314913957935 tons = 56.4 tons (roughly)

That's assuming everyone takes a daily shower, brushes their teeth morning and evening (ship time), maybe does a little laundry, and washes dishes.

I'm all for showers. Two weeks with showerless people would be a challenge. Especially in those cramp quarters.

I welcome corrections to my math.

 

[JimMarn]

Interesting. I think I heard a little factoid that the average American uses 32 gallons a day. Multiplied by four people over 14 days ... 1792 gallons.

1 gal ~ 0.0314913957935 tons

1792 * 0.0314913957935 tons = 56.4 tons (roughly)

That's assuming everyone takes a daily shower, brushes their teeth morning and evening (ship time), maybe does a little laundry, and washes dishes.

I'm all for showers. Two weeks with showerless people would be a challenge. Especially in those cramp quarters.

I welcome corrections to my math.

I fully agree, having been on a US Navy destroyer after one of the evaps failed. The other one converted sea water to fresh water to use in the ship's steam plants.

Two months, no showers unless we went into port. Which was about 21 days out, 3-5 days in port.

No, we didn't get used to it... urf.

 

[savage]

comparisons

The crew cannot walk out on the deck for fresh air or surface and open a hatch. Thing is that this scout ship is a small enclosed environment for long duration.
Even natural selection won't really matter. Traveller (I3) is a diverse community where space travel is expensive. Although, TL15 scouts may have adapted many sophonts may not enjoy tight company.

It's not that you have to put up with the Vargr, it's that the Vargr has to put up with you.

I've always seen scout ships as a 1-2 sophont tool with the ability to stretch it for a jump or two with 4 sophonts.

 

[Spinward Scout]

I think I heard a little factoid that the average American uses 32 gallons a day.

80-100 gallons according to this from USGS..

http://water.usgs.gov/edu/qa-home-percapita.html

 

[Blue Ghost]

80-100 gallons according to this from USGS..

http://water.usgs.gov/edu/qa-home-percapita.html

Wow, that seems like an awful lot. But okay;

100 (gallons) * 4 (people) * (2 weeks = 14 days) * 0.0314913957935 (tons/gal) =
176.4 tons of fuel.

How much fuel does a type S hold? I don't think a purification plant can fit on a type S, so how is waste water recycled?

 

[mithdraug]

So let me get this straight, you want me to be on a fully functional starship and are offering me a way to get of this low tech mudball...Heck YES!!! In a heartbeat, who do I have to kill or maim.

 

[aramis]

Wow, that seems like an awful lot. But okay;

100 (gallons) * 4 (people) * (2 weeks = 14 days) * 0.0314913957935 (tons/gal) =
176.4 tons of fuel.

How much fuel does a type S hold? I don't think a purification plant can fit on a type S, so how is waste water recycled?

Much of that USGS isn't actually used by the person directly, but in various societal uses.

Keep in mind that a person consumes between 1/4 and 2 gal. per day in fluids, and about the same within their food; inversely related, for an aggregate of about 1-1.5 gal per day; more in hot, less in cool.

If they take a 5m shower with a standard modern shower head, that's 10 gal.
Flush the toilet 3 times a day - another 7.5-10 gal (depending upon toilet and efficiency of flush. Each handwash is 1-5 gallons. Run a load of laundry or dishes - 5 to 25 gal, depending on hardware and settings.

Water your 1/8 acre lawn to 0.1" of water: about 200 gal.

Wash the car: 10+ gal if careful; 100+ if not.

One can get humans by on 3-4 gal/day with careful rationing and no dishwashing... in zero G.

A 1m diameter 1m tall cylinder tank is about tank is 750L (or some 180+ gal)... if rationed well (dry urinal, waterless flush toilets, laser "washing" of plates), that's plenty for a week. But it will contribute to the "interesting smells."

Personal reasonable use, including water-flush toilets at 8L/flush, limited rinse water for handwashing, etc, one can get 15 days on 750L... 12 gal a day, for comparison.

comfortable is going to be twice that. Still, small enough to fit in the drop-ceiling of the stateroom... Another 2 such tanks for wastewater. You havent even gotten to 1/2 Td....

 

[Blue Ghost]

I think the idea is that living on a starship is akin to living in a modest priced hotel, or even akin to living on a modern day merchant. Why would you turn off gravity though?

 

[Spinward Scout]

Why would you turn off gravity though?

I think he was talking about the International Space Station.

But, turning off gravity turns a cramped hallway into spacious tube.

 

[McPerth]

My take has always been water in spaceships is recycled to extremes we can not even imagine. After all, they are (to a point) closed environments with (usually) lots of unused power (even a single turret not in use gives you lots of power, and they are unused most of the time), so that it could be distillated several times if needed. Once distillated, just adding the needed salts (distilled water is not safe for human consume) will be easy, and taken as effervescent salts they need nearly no space.

 

[McPerth]

About the main question in the OP, A Scout has 16 dton dedicated to crew quarters. This means about 224 Kl, that, if we assume 3 m ceiling, represent about 75 m².

Many 4 members families here in Barcelona (included mine) live in smaller appartments. Of course, we do not stay a full week at home without exiting for anything, but I guess we could survive it, should we need it, if we should not need anything from outside.

My take on it is that 4 crew members (and I guess most scouts go with smaller crew, just 1-2 members, as is what they ae built for) may live relatively in good terms in so closed a space, as long as relations among them are good. Of course, jumpy situations will arise, but I also guess entertainment, be it in form of videogames, reading, watching videos, etc... will be quite better at those TLs tan is today, and most scout crews wil lbe quite acclimatized to it.

In fact, my guess is that agoraphobia may well be a problem among the scouts (or former scouts, once they leave the service), as they are too acclimatized to those conditions...

In any case, it would be less a matter of evolution and more a matter of being used (and/or trained) to it.

I once heard the main problem to recruit crews for submarines is precisely claustrophoblia, as many people cannot feel comfortable in so close quarters situation for long, but the submarine crews, either because they are hand picked, because training or because they are used to it, endure it anyway.

 

[Blue Ghost]

I think he was talking about the International Space Station.

But, turning off gravity turns a cramped hallway into spacious tube.

I couldn't tell. It's almost like a NASA astronaut was posting.

McPerth; a scout ship can be operated by one man, but isn't a typical crew a three man crew? Pilot / Navigator, Engineer, Medic, with the option for a gunner and / or separate Navigator. Doesn't Imperial law require a medic? Therefore, assuming you have a one man crew who knows basic engineering and can fly and plot a course, he'd still need a medic. Ergo a two man crew?

 

[McPerth]

McPerth; a scout ship can be operated by one man, but isn't a typical crew a three man crew? Pilot / Navigator, Engineer, Medic, with the option for a gunner and / or separate Navigator. Doesn't Imperial law require a medic? Therefore, assuming you have a one man crew who knows basic engineering and can fly and plot a course, he'd still need a medic. Ergo a two man crew?

According CT:LBB2:

Page 18 page:

SHIP CREWS

(...)

Medic: Each starship of 200 tons ore more must have a medic

(bold is original, underlining is mine)

So, the scout does not (legaly) need it.

Page 19:

The scout/currier requeres a crew of one, assuming the duties of pilot and engineer.

While I understand a larger crew would have better performance, the standard crew is, so, 1 person (that unless quite a lonley person, would be even worse tan sharing the quarters, IMHO).

 

[infojunky]

I don't think a purification plant can fit on a type S

Why not? The Space Shuttle at 95 tons had one....

 

[McPerth]

I don't think a purification plant can fit on a type S

Why not? The Space Shuttle at 95 tons had one....

This aside, In LBB2 the sout can use unrefined fuel, so Iguess it's assumed it has purification plant, and in any other version I've read it has, as it depends on wilderness refuelling for its scouting mission...

 

[Carlobrand]

Why not? The Space Shuttle at 95 tons had one....

Fuel purifier has a minimum size. Canon Scout/Courier has 3 dTons available cargo space. Only purifier small enough to be retrofitted to a Book-2 scout is a TL15 model. Of course, if you build a scout using HG-II components, there's plenty of room.