Could you stand living in a scout ship?

[McPerth]

Fuel purifier has a minimum size. Canon Scout/Courier has 3 dTons available cargo space. Only purifier small enough to be retrofitted to a Book-2 scout is a TL15 model. Of course, if you build a scout using HG-II components, there's plenty of room.

And if using LBB2 rules, I don't remember purifiers being there.

Modifiers for missjump and drive failure (pg 6) are +1 if using unrefined fuel and not equiped to do so, and is told that military and quasi military ships use unrefined fuel because their drives are specialy built to use it, but I cannot find any reference to purifiers....

And, as you say, if using HG2 rules, the lower fuel needs for the PP allow it to mount a purifier...

 

[Carlobrand]

This aside, In LBB2 the sout can use unrefined fuel, so Iguess it's assumed it has purification plant, and in any other version I've read it has, as it depends on wilderness refuelling for its scouting mission...

In the Book 2 malfunction table, naval ships get a -1 to misjump roll and scouts get a -2. That doesn't mean the unrefined fuel does not get it's +1 to the misjump roll. It means scouts and navy ships using unrefined fuel won't misjump unless there's some other factor at play, such as being too deep in a gravity well.

A purification plant would not explain why navy and scouts are treated differently from each other, and if you invoke some other explanation for the difference between navy and scout ships, that same explanation can be used to explain the difference between navy/scout ships and civilian ships without needing to invoke purifiers. Since Book 5 does not define chances of a misjump, you are left to fall back on the Book 2 misjump table - where scouts and navy ships get a bonus. No rule says that bonus does not apply to Book 5 ships. You could therefore justify adding a purification plant to a scout or navy ship to eliminate the unrefined fuel penalty and still claim the full bonus, based on rules as written. Ergo, in the rules as written, one cannot assume the scout (or navy ship) already has a purifier.

 

[Carlobrand]

And if using LBB2 rules, I don't remember purifiers being there.

Modifiers for missjump and drive failure (pg 6) are +1 if using unrefined fuel and not equiped to do so, and is told that military and quasi military ships use unrefined fuel because their drives are specialy built to use it, but I cannot find any reference to purifiers....

And, as you say, if using HG2 rules, the lower fuel needs for the PP allow it to mount a purifier...

Yup.

 

[rancke]

In the Book 2 malfunction table, naval ships get a -1 to misjump roll and scouts get a -2.

There ought to be ship design rules (extra cost, I'd say) for building these extra tough jump drives.


Hans

 

[Blue Ghost]

I thought I read in either High Guard or MT that ships below a certain tonnage, but way of design, were incapable of having purification plants. That was my issue. Am I not remembering that correctly?

I imagine that, if you're a singleton, a married couple, or just a couple of friends wanting to go for a joy ride, that the only limiting factor would be your skills to man the ship, and how much food you could cram in the cargo hold... assuming you don't get sick of one another's company. But I guess that's what places like "New Vegas" in Soli space are for

 

[WistfulD]

Fuel purifier has a minimum size. Canon Scout/Courier has 3 dTons available cargo space. Only purifier small enough to be retrofitted to a Book-2 scout is a TL15 model. Of course, if you build a scout using HG-II components, there's plenty of room.

BTW, there'e no good spot to ask this, is there a "common termonology" thread on this site? As a newbie. I'm sick of going back to my lists of all the books from all the editions and trying to figure out "okay, which ship design rules are they talking about?"

 

[WistfulD]

I imagine that, if you're a singleton, a married couple, or just a couple of friends wanting to go for a joy ride, that the only limiting factor would be your skills to man the ship, and how much food you could cram in the cargo hold... assuming you don't get sick of one another's company. But I guess that's what places like "New Vegas" in Soli space are for

Given the implied monthly expense of keeping a ship running, just heading out for a joyride seems to be the province of the crazily wealthy. That, plus the issues with refueling for jumps has made me not really think of the Traveller universe as a place really set up for just heading out second star to the left.

 

[McPerth]

BTW, there'e no good spot to ask this, is there a "common termonology" thread on this site? As a newbie. I'm sick of going back to my lists of all the books from all the editions and trying to figure out "okay, which ship design rules are they talking about?"

If you mean about abreviations, look at this thread. It has grown a little, and maybe you have to search a little, but it surly will be there

 

[Blue Ghost]

Given the implied monthly expense of keeping a ship running, just heading out for a joyride seems to be the province of the crazily wealthy. That, plus the issues with refueling for jumps has made me not really think of the Traveller universe as a place really set up for just heading out second star to the left.

Yeah, you have to be a rich mo-fo in order to own a ship (or have a lease on one) in the first place. I remember in the old CT rules I had characters go through multiple careers and wind up with two or three ships as muster benefits....what do you do with that? Okay, a rhetorical question as the rules did address this, but, imagine you spend a couple of terms in the merchants, then the scouts, and maybe as a hunter during char-gen. You could potentially wind up with a Subsidized merchant, a Type-S and a Safari ship. You'd have to make the payments, but you could start your own liner by renting them out o:

But yeah, Traveller is partially premised on "real world people". The kind who have wealth, or who built that wealth, and who have gone through the services or are highly adventurous in nature, and hence travel and disseminate wealth and other aid to solve local problems abroad. Those kinds of folks usually have private jets and yachts and the like, and some even do hire mercenaries.

Traveller takes its cues from those kinds of people. Occasionally they get written up in some journal, or a news piece is done about them. I remember a couple of guys who were helping to fund the Northern Alliance in Afghanistan fight the Taliban before we went in there. Or the guy with the super sleek trimaran yacht who fights Japanese wailers for Greenpeace. Those are the kinds of people Traveller thrives on

But, back to the question; okay, purifier, food, best friend or a couple of hotties (or just one), and you're in jump. A 1.5 meter square on the map is roughly 5' feet. So things are slightly cramped, but two people can pass by one another in the main corridor. Your individual cabins are roughly 10' by 15'. That's about the size of my downstairs office (without the closet). You have four of those rooms. A cockpit. Engineering. A common area, and garage sized cargo hold.

One week. Either just you, or you and some friends. I say doable

 

[Zephyrinus]

Totally!

I'd just have to make sure the other people I was living with were role players (maybe of various sorts).... and that I had a holo-projector (or VR system if available) installed, with appropriate gaming tools and software.
Yep. I'm definitely in.

 

[Blue Ghost]

It's more or less like living in a duplex, but with different dimensions. The cockpit is about the size of a kitchen. The common area is about the size of a living room for a condo. The four staterooms are approximately single occupant bedroom size, the galley and bathroom are about the size of a small kitchen and bathroom respectively, and the cargo area is about twice the size of a standard two car garage in terms of volume.

To me, the only real scary part is gas giant refueling. You would have to have nerves of steel to find the right kind, and then, depending on your maneuver drive rating, set a parabolic course screaming through the upper ammonia thick troposphere at extremely high mach as you took on fuel. Nope, I couldn't do that.

Last year or the year before last I suggested landing a gas giant moon and shoveling snow into the ship's tanks. If you've landed on a world with frozen oxygen or frozen methane snow, then it is a little nippy outside. Spacesuits with "magic tech" fibers and insulation will be needed to keep you nice and comfy as you use that snowblower or shovel to juice up your bird. It is possible, however, that scout vessels come with a built in "snow sucker" device that will haul in snow while you sit inside comfortably playing the latest SNES virtual Mario game.

 

[WistfulD]

It's more or less like living in a duplex, but with different dimensions. The cockpit is about the size of a kitchen. The common area is about the size of a living room for a condo. The four staterooms are approximately single occupant bedroom size, the galley and bathroom are about the size of a small kitchen and bathroom respectively, and the cargo area is about twice the size of a standard two car garage in terms of volume.

To me, the only real scary part is gas giant refueling. You would have to have nerves of steel to find the right kind, and then, depending on your maneuver drive rating, set a parabolic course screaming through the upper ammonia thick troposphere at extremely high mach as you took on fuel. Nope, I couldn't do that.

Last year or the year before last I suggested landing a gas giant moon and shoveling snow into the ship's tanks. If you've landed on a world with frozen oxygen or frozen methane snow, then it is a little nippy outside. Spacesuits with "magic tech" fibers and insulation will be needed to keep you nice and comfy as you use that snowblower or shovel to juice up your bird. It is possible, however, that scout vessels come with a built in "snow sucker" device that will haul in snow while you sit inside comfortably playing the latest SNES virtual Mario game.

The difference is that with the duplex, you can always go outside for a walk or trip down the road, even if you never have to.

 

[Blue Ghost]

Then would living on board a Type-S starship would drive you nuts?

 

[Blue Ghost]

Okay, final verdict; for most people this seems like a good thing. For some, heaven on Earth (or in hyperspace). Others would need to stretch their legs every now and then.

Thanks all

 

[Blue Ghost]

Given the implied monthly expense of keeping a ship running, just heading out for a joyride seems to be the province of the crazily wealthy. That, plus the issues with refueling for jumps has made me not really think of the Traveller universe as a place really set up for just heading out second star to the left.

Ah, okay, I think I get what you're saying. Nearly all of the gamers I've interacted with over the last 20 years (that is face to face) have been older, career oriented or even retired, men with families. Traveller may have attracted us when we were preteens in the early 80s or even late 70s, but the game was aimed at anybody who wanted space adventure, just as Gygax's game were aimed at the warrior and mythical beasts crowd.

Traveller takes its cues from a desire to stay science oriented, and, as per one of the writers channeled through one of the moderators, didn't stray into the deep overboard fantasy territory where you could hop in a ship and fight some random monster in an asteroid field. And, as I said before, to me at least, it also took its cues from a class of people who have wealth, and use that wealth and their abilities on a global basis to address problems; that happens today (usually someone who owns a yacht, or fleet of private jets, and who can hire professionals).

I think it's one thing to not want to grow up, but it's another to keep a hobby that you like alive and well. I like the game because it is fun (when I can scrounge up a session), and after dealing with a day of angry customers, and not having a whole lot of money, it's like cracking a book you can share with friends or people who have similar interests.

I asked this question because it just struck me for some odd reason. Projecting further I'd hate to spend most of my life cooped up in a Type-S. I could more than hack it, would even love it for long stretches, but it would be nice to land on a world and take in a beach or two.

Thanks.

 

[WistfulD]

Ah, okay, I think I get what you're saying. Nearly all of the gamers I've interacted with over the last 20 years (that is face to face) have been older, career oriented or even retired, men with families. Traveller may have attracted us when we were preteens in the early 80s or even late 70s, but the game was aimed at anybody who wanted space adventure, just as Gygax's game were aimed at the warrior and mythical beasts crowd.

Traveller takes its cues from a desire to stay science oriented, and, as per one of the writers channeled through one of the moderators, didn't stray into the deep overboard fantasy territory where you could hop in a ship and fight some random monster in an asteroid field. And, as I said before, to me at least, it also took its cues from a class of people who have wealth, and use that wealth and their abilities on a global basis to address problems; that happens today (usually someone who owns a yacht, or fleet of private jets, and who can hire professionals).

In as much as a game's design and rules control the story, yes. That's one part of role playing that is often not acknowledged. The decision to focus on the costs of fuel, character design system that starts PCs out with a mortgage to pay, and the 1-2 jumps before refueling all exist and remind players that the clock is ticking and there are bills to pay. Of course you can ignore a bunch of those rules quite easily and play a high-flying game of Guardians of the Galaxy using the Traveller rules too.

 

[Blue Ghost]

It has been a fairly vocal gripe of mine on these boards in various threads that Traveller was meant as a GURPS like sci-fi RPG, but wound up being something entirely different in spite of the blurbs in the classic books about using the rules to mimick any setting.

In the classic rules era we went from being able to create anything from Doctor Who to Star Trek to Star Wars to Logan's Run to Journey to the Center of the Earth to Godzilla. You just had to create the creatures and natural events via the animal encounter's table, and then generate NPCs like a Klingon captain or Darth Vader or Francis-7 or The Master and their "stuff" again using the suggested tech level adjustments.

But now the official setting has evolved into something that leans towards "hard science" but still keeps various hand waves in order to make jump drives and what not work and propel stories in the official setting work.

At this point in my life I shrug at it. Mongoose has kind of gotten back to "original intent" with publishing other Traveller venues; i.e. "Judge Dredd" and so forth.

So, if you want to game in the official setting, then yeah, starship economics are more akin to owning a private airline or merchant that relies on niche markets to make ends meet. Otherwise it's a matter of tweaking the rules to accommodate your desired setting.

 

[infojunky]

It has been a fairly vocal gripe of mine on these boards in various threads that Traveller was meant as a GURPS like sci-fi RPG, but wound up being something entirely different in spite of the blurbs in the classic books about using the rules to mimick any setting.

Hum, that is a point of view, personally my games have been far more inclusive of SF tropes than some more of the more orthodox here among us. Most of the discussions I have been involved in the past 30 some-odd years have what-if pushing different technologies and definitions with the broader framework that is Traveller. Often the Roll your own aspects of the various editions are hidden behind the "House" story. (Note if you go far enough back and include the 3 party stuff the 3rd Imperium is a much different Place)

Back closer to the topic, one of the things I have always wanted for Traveller is more chrome for detailing Ships, but not in the most commonly asked for way of MORE Guns, I want better details for Cargo Handling, Passenger and crew quarters and the like for Role Playing. (Not saying expanded and more flexible combat options are bad either, but they get done while the more mundane stuff doesn't.)

 

[Blue Ghost]

Most of the discussions I have been involved in the past 30 some-odd years have what-if pushing different technologies and definitions with the broader framework that is Traveller. Often the Roll your own aspects of the various editions are hidden behind the "House" story. (Note if you go far enough back and include the 3 party stuff the 3rd Imperium is a much different Place)

Yeah, I want to stay on topic, but this is a minor sore point with me (not so much now, or at least not anymore).

I remember some of the third party stuff created for this game, and specifically stuff like the "Judges Guild" material, which to me always looked poorly packaged. I always expected "Traveller; Star Trek" or "Traveller; Galactica" or "Traveller; Buck Rogers" to get published at some point, and with perhaps some suggestions for rules and devices, but it never happened. Such is life.

 

[aramis]

Yeah, I want to stay on topic, but this is a minor sore point with me (not so much now, or at least not anymore).

I remember some of the third party stuff created for this game, and specifically stuff like the "Judges Guild" material, which to me always looked poorly packaged. I always expected "Traveller; Star Trek" or "Traveller; Galactica" or "Traveller; Buck Rogers" to get published at some point, and with perhaps some suggestions for rules and devices, but it never happened. Such is life.

Probably because, by 1979, The OTU existed in Loren's mind. And Loren was the most prolific of the writers for CT. And the rules were actually pretty strongly tied to a Star Wars inspired setting. It wasn't until about 1981 that the OTU started to portray the Imperium as the good guys.

Any third party would have had to do a near total conversion, and was better off doing their own game entirely for those properties.

Further, the actual concrete idea of a truly setting-less game doesn't appear in the industry until about 1980... and BRP didn't do so well. Plus, it wasn't really all that generic, as it had 3 settings in the box showing how it needed to be setting tweaked. The first truly generic engine published without a setting in the box seems to be 1985's GURPS.

Even now, most adaptations are not supplements; they're rewritten cores.

And we do see a Traveller: Star Trek... kind of... in 1983. FASA Trek has a large dose of Traveller in it's DNA. Ok, so the skill resolution was borrowed from RuneQuest/BRP. But everyone working on the core was a Traveller writer.