forthekill
SOC-11
What programs (if any) allow you to create sector/subsector maps via graphical interface instead of just displaying .sec file data?
Creating Sectors/Subsectors via GUI
- Thread starter forthekill
- Start date
Heaven and Earth (available via the link at Traveller Downport (www.downport.com, I believe) displays the map as well as the listing of data. It offers multiple world generation systems (CT, MT/WBH, GT:FI, etc.) but some of them are a bit wonky and it will reportedly give results that can't be reproduced with the given rulesets. Still, it's a pretty slick tool. Development on H&E ceased years ago. Runs OK under XP but I believe it won't run on Vista and possibly Windows 7.
AstroSynthesis from NBOS Software www.nbos.com isn't really for Traveller system generation; it's a three-dimensional star mapper that generates systems based on relatively current science (though at the rate that field is changing I'm sure it's dated). You can simulate Traveller mapping by setting the height of the space you're generating to 1 LY or parsec. People have written a number of add-ons for it that I've barely touched. You won't get many shirtsleeve worlds out of AstroSynthesis but you can manually create or tweak systems (or import data, I think). Runs fine on XP, I believe it can be made to run on Vista or Windows 7 but I'm not sure.
Traveller Universe can't be used to generate the data (yet) but is arguably the best at displaying the data. While it won't do sysgen you can use it to tweak the stats once they're loaded into the system. The author, Hemdian (aka Peter Trevor) is a member and semi-regular poster here and he's working on a complete re-write of the program. I think it's still available from BITS in the UK. Works like a champ on XP but don't know about Vista / Windows 7.
Another display-only option is the Cosmographer add-on for Campaign Cartographer from ProFantasy www.profantasy.com. I don't recommend it unless you're planning to invest in Campaign Cartographer (which is a great tool, just somewhat pricey and has a steep learning curve). It can make awesome maps though, along with deckplans and other sundries.
I'm sure other options exist but these are the ones I'm familiar with.
AstroSynthesis from NBOS Software www.nbos.com isn't really for Traveller system generation; it's a three-dimensional star mapper that generates systems based on relatively current science (though at the rate that field is changing I'm sure it's dated). You can simulate Traveller mapping by setting the height of the space you're generating to 1 LY or parsec. People have written a number of add-ons for it that I've barely touched. You won't get many shirtsleeve worlds out of AstroSynthesis but you can manually create or tweak systems (or import data, I think). Runs fine on XP, I believe it can be made to run on Vista or Windows 7 but I'm not sure.
Traveller Universe can't be used to generate the data (yet) but is arguably the best at displaying the data. While it won't do sysgen you can use it to tweak the stats once they're loaded into the system. The author, Hemdian (aka Peter Trevor) is a member and semi-regular poster here and he's working on a complete re-write of the program. I think it's still available from BITS in the UK. Works like a champ on XP but don't know about Vista / Windows 7.
Another display-only option is the Cosmographer add-on for Campaign Cartographer from ProFantasy www.profantasy.com. I don't recommend it unless you're planning to invest in Campaign Cartographer (which is a great tool, just somewhat pricey and has a steep learning curve). It can make awesome maps though, along with deckplans and other sundries.
I'm sure other options exist but these are the ones I'm familiar with.
BeRKA
SOC-13
To quickly generate subsectors, try this random subsector generator.
Then import data into another program if you want to tweek it.
Traveller Universe is really nice.
Or try the post function at Traveller Maps.
Then import data into another program if you want to tweek it.
Traveller Universe is really nice.
Or try the post function at Traveller Maps.
forthekill
SOC-11
What I am looking for is a way to get a graphical blank subsector/sector map and add systems, routes, borders and such using the mouse. It would then create the data, and allow you to export .sec files (and border and route files), to use in other utilities.
Just using a mapping utility is useless, since I can't get data from it.
I wonder if Universe II will have a feature like that. Hemedian?
I realize most people have the data (from Traveller) already, and just need to display it somehow. But for creating new subsectors I am stuck using paper, then typing the locations up in a text file. Then I use a version of gensec I modified that can then generate the UPPs and stuff for the list I typed up. Then I still have to type up borders and routes manually. It is way too time consuming to do for subsector after subsector.
Just using a mapping utility is useless, since I can't get data from it.
I wonder if Universe II will have a feature like that. Hemedian?
I realize most people have the data (from Traveller) already, and just need to display it somehow. But for creating new subsectors I am stuck using paper, then typing the locations up in a text file. Then I use a version of gensec I modified that can then generate the UPPs and stuff for the list I typed up. Then I still have to type up borders and routes manually. It is way too time consuming to do for subsector after subsector.
You can do the system creation in Heaven & Earth in the way you describe. Start with a blank sector, pick a hex where you want a system and have the program generate one for you. I believe you can mark routes and borders with H&E but it's been a while, so I'm not 100% sure. Will look when I get home tonight.
If you want a prettier map than H&E provides, you can export the data and then import it into Universe (or something else).
In my case, the source data was a stack of old (circa 1980-85) subsector data sheets. I transcribed the data into .SEC format and then imported it - originally into H&E, but later into Universe.
Heaven & Earth is free, so easy enough to see if it meets your needs!
For what Peter intends for Universe 2, scroll down a little in this forum to the thread "Universe II Updates here".
If you want a prettier map than H&E provides, you can export the data and then import it into Universe (or something else).
In my case, the source data was a stack of old (circa 1980-85) subsector data sheets. I transcribed the data into .SEC format and then imported it - originally into H&E, but later into Universe.
Heaven & Earth is free, so easy enough to see if it meets your needs!
For what Peter intends for Universe 2, scroll down a little in this forum to the thread "Universe II Updates here".
forthekill
SOC-11
Well I guess I will have to get a VM of XP running ASAP to test out H&E, since I am on Win7 at the moment. Thanks for the info!
Is that enough abbreviations for one sentence?
Is that enough abbreviations for one sentence?
Actually, the current release of Universe (1.7) does half of what you want. If you drill down to a subsector (in Referee mode) there is a maintenance function to add/remove systems. Adding systems this way does NOT generate the UWP but you can then manually set the UWP for each new system. Basically when you add systems this way you can think of them as ‘place holders’. (When removing existing systems, as opposed to cancelling an addition, make sure you have the ‘sounds’ preference activated and your speakers switched on.) There are other functions for setting the borders and xboat links, though I’m not happy about the way the links function works.
And Universe 1.7 can export data too. In SEC format, HES format, or whatever. But those formats don’t carry data on borders or xboat links.
So, like I said, it already does half of what you want ... but only half.
Universe 2 will have UWP generation, system generation (like H&E), and other stuff.
Universe 1.7 is still available.
Universe 1.7 will run on Vista Ultimate but very clunk-ily and is not recommended. Basically, you have to run it in compatibility mode AND have IBconsole open at the same time. Universe 1.7 does NOT run on Vista Home Premium.
I don’t know about running Universe 1.7 on Windows 7 but as Vista is actually WinNT 6, and Windows 7 is WinNT 6.1, I’d guess it would be similar?
forthekill
SOC-11
That sounds close to what I am looking for, and is at least the most important part.
What gets exported if I manually add systems? Just the name and location in .SEC format, if that's what I choose for export?
If that's what it does, that's great. Like I said before, I modified the old gensec software to read in just name and location and generate the UWP for each system and output whatever version of .SEC file I want.
Not such a big deal I guess. If it doesn't work on Win7 I can VM XP.
I've just run a little test:
- First I needed to create an empty sector. I took a pre-existing SEC file and removed all the system lines in notepad (leaving just the header). This I imported into a Universe database.
- Next I opened a new sector window, and from there opened a new subsector window. I selected the maintenance function for add/remove systems and added several new systems.
- Then I exported the sector. What I had (after the header) was a series of system lines that had a default name (the subsector hex code), a sector hex code, and a default allegeance ("Na"). All the other UWP fields where filled with spaces.
It sounds like you could take this, populate it with UWPs using your other utility, then reimport it back into Universe where you'd add borders and xboat links.
I make no garantees about that. Universe 1.7 uses a database engine called InterBase, and relies on an ODBC driver, DSN entries, and registry entries to work. I've not used VM, how much of XP is actually VM'd?
forthekill
SOC-11
For sure. That'd be pretty easy.
The whole OS is replicated. So it's like having a real machine.
Depends upon Virtualization solution.
WINE, Crossover: emulates the OS hooks; drivers might not work. Faster, less compatible
VMWare, VPC, Parallels: Emulates the hardware, runs full normal OS. most non-hardware drivers work just fine. Slower, more compatible
forthekill
SOC-11
Yeah I should have clarified. I am using VMWare Workstation, so it should be fine.
forthekill
SOC-11
Do I do this with TUManager or from within Universe?
I can't figure out how to import a sector. I created my own universe with the TUManager, but when I open it I just get a dummy sector.
To get Import Sector to work in the main window I had to delete the dummy sector.
When I then choose Import Sector, I get asked for a .tux file. What is that? I tried a normal sec file, but it tells me it is an invalid header. What header it is expecting?
From the dummy sector, I open that, but I cannot go any further than that. Choosing Import asks for a .tux file again.
I'm not sure what to do here. Any help would be appreciated.
Yeah, that confuses a lot of people. Put it down to a design flaw from years ago.
Universe can import/export in its native TUX format or in any number of flat file formats. Each flat file format is defined by a parameter file with an IEL extension. Universe ships with several IEL files but you can write your own too. The ‘problem’ is that Universe doesn’t register those IEL files automatically, you have to use TUManager to ‘register’ them ... thereafter you can import or export sectors in those formats from within the main program. (I’ll also warn you that Universe is very picky over the headers when importing.)
Once you have your sector loaded you can use the maintenance functions within the main program to tweak the results. Usually this includes ‘colouring in’ the empty hexes so borders are continguous and adding xboat links.
Universe can import/export in its native TUX format or in any number of flat file formats. Each flat file format is defined by a parameter file with an IEL extension. Universe ships with several IEL files but you can write your own too. The ‘problem’ is that Universe doesn’t register those IEL files automatically, you have to use TUManager to ‘register’ them ... thereafter you can import or export sectors in those formats from within the main program. (I’ll also warn you that Universe is very picky over the headers when importing.)
Once you have your sector loaded you can use the maintenance functions within the main program to tweak the results. Usually this includes ‘colouring in’ the empty hexes so borders are continguous and adding xboat links.
forthekill
SOC-11
Ok, now I understand. Thanks.
I now have a new problem.
When I registered my IEL files, I put a . before the extension so now when importing the dialog only shows ..sec files, which is a problem since no files show up
I went to unregister them so I could redo it without the ., but the problem I have now is that I get an error "(5) Invalid procedure call or argument" when trying to unregister any of my IELs.
Any chance the IEL file names can't contain spaces?
Any other way to clear the registered IELs? Through Interbase?
Actually, IELs are registered in the registry. So it's probably simplest just to hack^h^h^h^hmodify that. You'll find them in HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\VB and VBA Program Settings\Traveller Universe\IELs ... For example, if you have an entry called "Standard" (without quotes) it should contain "SEC|Standard Format" (without quotes).
forthekill
SOC-11
Thanks for the tip, I managed to get everything cleared up.
I can now manually add worlds, name them using the Maintenance-UWP window, and then export them to a file. I then run my random UWP generator on them, and then I re-import them and edit to my heart's content.
One thing I have noticed is that after an import, none of the worlds show the cool world graphics on the subsector window until I open up the Maintenance-UWP window for that world. Not a biggie since I touch almost all of the worlds to add stars and make other UWP edits.
The only really thing that bugs me (and it hasn't been that big of a deal so far) is that I have to export to edit the Trade Codes, and then import again, but I understand that part was never added.
All in all this is a really good program and totally worth the $$.
I can now manually add worlds, name them using the Maintenance-UWP window, and then export them to a file. I then run my random UWP generator on them, and then I re-import them and edit to my heart's content.
One thing I have noticed is that after an import, none of the worlds show the cool world graphics on the subsector window until I open up the Maintenance-UWP window for that world. Not a biggie since I touch almost all of the worlds to add stars and make other UWP edits.
The only really thing that bugs me (and it hasn't been that big of a deal so far) is that I have to export to edit the Trade Codes, and then import again, but I understand that part was never added.
All in all this is a really good program and totally worth the $$.
Not sure why the world icons are not showing initially ... are you changing anything in the maintenance function?
Comment codes are categorised as Trade Codes or Remarks. Trade Codes are based on hard-wired rules and are stored in the database as a series of flags. There are also 3 text fields for storing anything else (Remarks).
So, when importing a system the comments are parsed and any that are recognised as Trade Codes are dropped. Anything left over is stuffed into those remark fields. As the record is added to the database the rules governing Trade Codes are applied and the appropriate flags are set. Therefore if a system has incorrect or missing Trade Codes in the import file these are cleaned from the data when it gets into the database.
Amending a system using the maintenance function should also trigger these Trade Code rules.
When exporting (IIRC) preference is given to Remarks and then any Trade Codes are added to the output (space permitting).
Thank you.
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