CT Only: CT Book 2 Free Trader Crew

[snrdg082102]

Hello all,

CT Book 2 page 19 has the required crew list for the Free Trader as four filling the positions of Pilot, Engineer, Medic, and Steward.

Based on the hull size the three required positions are pilot, engineer, and medic.

A steward is required when there are 8 or more high passengers are being carried on board the ship.

Am I missing something since the write up on page 19 does not mention the free trader carrying high passengers.

 

[mike wightman]

There is no difference between a high passage stateroom, a middle passage stateroom or a crew stateroom.

A stateroom is a stateroom is a stateroom.

if the free trader looks for passengers to fill its staterooms it can offer middle passage to anyone who applies. it can only offer high passage if there is a steward on the crew.

 

[rancke]

if the free trader looks for passengers to fill its staterooms it can offer middle passage to anyone who applies. it can only offer high passage if there is a steward on the crew.

True, but if someone wanted to bump another passenger, he'd have to pony up a High Passage anyway. Likewise if someone wants to take passage on a free trader without high passage service but only have High Passage vouchers to pay with.


Hans

 

[Sir Brad]

Further 200t+ ships require a Navigator depending on the on the intergeneration of the rules, but to grandfather in the crew lists you can assume the Owner/Capitan/Pilot id pulling in double duty as Navigator.

As has bean said to carry any High Passengers you need a Steward, one per eight (round fractions up) High Staterooms (Suites count as two High Staterooms). I also deem that Double Occupancy (Cure or Middle Passage, on non-military ships) count towards you High Passage tally for steward numbers.

 

[rancke]

As has bean said to carry any High Passengers you need a Steward, one per eight (round fractions up) High Staterooms (Suites count as two High Staterooms).

As I suggested in my previous post, that depends on your definition of a high passenger. If it's someone who receives high passage service, then by definition you're right. But if it's someone who pays with a High Passage voucher, a ship can in certain cases have high passengers without offering high passage service. Granted, these cases won't crop up according to the rules, where you only roll for high passengers if the ship has the necessary steward(s), but I see that as a deficiency in the rules, not a reflection of "reality".


Hans

 

[Sir Brad]

I can't see a Booking Agent placing a High Passage on a ship without a Seward on the cure roaster, or a ship without someone acting as a Seward being able to find High Passengers, anything else just sais "Adventure Hook" to me.

 

[rancke]

I can't see a Booking Agent placing a High Passage on a ship without a Seward on the cure roaster, or a ship without someone acting as a Seward being able to find High Passengers, anything else just sais "Adventure Hook" to me.

I can't see a passenger with a motive to travel on a free trader giving a hoot for what a booking agent thinks. (Nor can I see booking agents being a feature on backwater worlds with only a few occasional ships visiting).

If I was rolling up passengers for a free trader, I'd roll for both mid and high passengers. If the total was less than the number of available staterooms, everyone would pay mid passage price. If there were more than the number of available staterooms, the high passengers would pay high passage price and get on board first, after which the ship would fill up with mid passengers.


Hans

 

[snrdg082102]

Howdy Mike Wightman,

There is no difference between a high passage stateroom, a middle passage stateroom or a crew stateroom.

A stateroom is a stateroom is a stateroom.

You are correct that a stateroom is a stateroom is a stateroom, however the rules also state that "A commercial ship must have one stateroom for each member of the crew." I could be wrong but I take a free trader to be a commercial ship which means that of the ten staterooms the crew, per CT book 2 page 19, would need four of them.

I could have sworn that CT book 2 indicated that high passengers required one full stateroom and two middle passengers would share a single stateroom.

if the free trader looks for passengers to fill its staterooms it can offer middle passage to anyone who applies. it can only offer high passage if there is a steward on the crew.

What page in CT Book 2 is the requirement that a steward is needed to offer high passage?

If one takes the crew rule of one steward per 8 high passengers literally no stewards are required on the free trader since there are only seven staterooms available. Of course if a steward is part of the crew then there are one six staterooms available.

A crew member having skills as medic and steward would meet the requirements of 1 steward per 8 high passengers per Ship Crews. Of course I use the formula of round(Number of High Passengers x 0.125,0), which has 1 dedicated steward with 4 high passengers.

 

[snrdg082102]

Evening Sir Brad,

Further 200t+ ships require a Navigator depending on the on the intergeneration of the rules, but to grandfather in the crew lists you can assume the Owner/Capitan/Pilot id pulling in double duty as Navigator.

CT Book 2 page 16 Ship Crews:

Navigator: Any starship displacing greater than 200 tons must have a navigator. The pilot of small craft or non-starship can handle its navigation requirements.

The Free Trader is 200 tons which is not greater than 200 tons and does not require a navigator. The requirement is a strong indication that one crew member fills two positions of which one is the navigator on 100 to 200 ton ships. Based on the Scout/Courier my guess is the pilot is also the navigator.

As has bean said to carry any High Passengers you need a Steward, one per eight (round fractions up) High Staterooms (Suites count as two High Staterooms). I also deem that Double Occupancy (Cure or Middle Passage, on non-military ships) count towards you High Passage tally for steward numbers.

Per CT Book 2 Ships Crew page 16:

Steward: If high passengers are carried, then a steward is required. There must be at least one steward (steward skill-0 or better) per eight high passengers on the ship. If there is more than one steward, the most skilled is designated the chief steward (or purser) and draws 10% more salary.

If there are no high passengers being carried then a steward is not required.

If one takes "There must be at least one steward (steward skill-0 or better) per eight high passengers on the ship." literally one steward is required only when eight high passengers are carried. Two stewards would be needed for sixteen high passengers.

However, I usually use the formula round(Number of High Passengers x 0.125,0) which requires a dedicated steward when four high passengers are carried.

From port to port there is a gamble that the free trader is going to have any high passengers being carried. Besides the one crew filling two positions could be brought into play.

 

[snrdg082102]

Evening Hans and Sir Brad,

I may be out to lunch but my interpretation of the rules for determining high, middle, and low passengers is to look up the origin world's population digit roll the required dice and apply the appropriate DMs of the destination world per the table on CT Book 2 page 11.

Of course I still haven't been able to find the page that requires a steward be part of the ship's crew before rolling on the Passengers Table.

 

[Orr]

Of course I still haven't been able to find the page that requires a steward be part of the ship's crew before rolling on the Passengers Table.

There's nothing that says a steward is required to roll on the tables. The tables provide the number of prospective passengers, not the number of passengers whose money you'll get.

IIRC, the passenger table can produce more prospective low berth passengers than a free trader has low berths for. If the tables can produce low passengers you cannot "use", what's the problem with understanding that the table can produce high passengers you cannot use?

A steward is only required if you'll want a high passenger to book aboard as a high passenger, although that raises all sorts of other problems as the others have noted.

Besides, a "No steward/Prospective high passenger(s)" situation is a chance for role-playing instead of roll-playing. The PCs can earn those high passenger tickets for their upcoming jump is they can only manage to hire a NPC steward in time.

Can they find anyone, let alone anyone good, at short notice? Will who they find be trusted? Will who they find have "baggage" of some sort? Will who they find want extra pay or some other cut of the action? Decisions, decisions...

Remember, this is a role-playing game and not a spreadsheet.

 

[rancke]

There's nothing that says a steward is required to roll on the tables. The tables provide the number of prospective passengers, not the number of passengers whose money you'll get.

I stand corrected. So much the better, I say.

Besides, a "No steward/Prospective high passenger(s)" situation is a chance for role-playing instead of roll-playing.

I agree completely. One problem I have with "The Merchant Game", as I call it, is that it's not actually a role-playing game. Referees can piggy-back role-playing on the Merchant Game, but it's my impression that many don't. The one that ran a campaign for me and my friends many years ago certainly didn't (we had three sessions in a row where one of us players parlayed a windfall of 300 million into 3 billion credits while the rest of us looked on).

It's not a role-playing game until the +4 broker you hired turns out to be a +2 broker with an exaggerated reputation or the merchant you bought a load of widgets from tries to hide several crates of shoddy widgets in the load or the one you sold something to tries to sue you.


Hans

 

[snrdg082102]

Morning Orr,

Thank you for your reply.

I'm still looking for the page in CT Book 2 that states that in order to even think about carrying high passengers a steward or a crew member filling two positions, one of them being a steward is needed as indicated by the replies made by other forum members.

I used the Passengers Table since that item has a summary of what is needed to see if there are any perspective passengers available for passage on the ship.

There's nothing that says a steward is required to roll on the tables. The tables provide the number of prospective passengers, not the number of passengers whose money you'll get.

IIRC, the passenger table can produce more prospective low berth passengers than a free trader has low berths for. If the tables can produce low passengers you cannot "use", what's the problem with understanding that the table can produce high passengers you cannot use?

A steward is only required if you'll want a high passenger to book aboard as a high passenger, although that raises all sorts of other problems as the others have noted.

Besides, a "No steward/Prospective high passenger(s)" situation is a chance for role-playing instead of roll-playing. The PCs can earn those high passenger tickets for their upcoming jump is they can only manage to hire a NPC steward in time.

Can they find anyone, let alone anyone good, at short notice? Will who they find be trusted? Will who they find have "baggage" of some sort? Will who they find want extra pay or some other cut of the action? Decisions, decisions...

Remember, this is a role-playing game and not a spreadsheet.

 

[Orr]

I'm still looking for the page in CT Book 2 that states that in order to even think about carrying high passengers a steward or a crew member filling two positions, one of them being a steward is needed as indicated by the replies made by other forum members.

What's the problem in comprehension here? Your latest post answers your own question: "...that in order to even think about carrying high passengers a steward or a crew member filling two positions, one of them being a steward is needed..."

In order to CARRY a high passenger, you need a steward. Carry, not look for. You do not need a steward in order to see if any high passengers are AVAILABLE. You only need a steward to carry high passengers. If you don't have a steward and high passengers are available, you can then decide whether you want to hire a steward or not.

It cannot be more simple.

Remember, the table is a role-playing mechanism and not some equation in a spreadsheet's cell.

Look at the freight table in the same book and imagine you have a scout/courier with a 10dTon cargo hold. Following the same "logic" you're employing with the passengers table, you can't roll on the freight table because it will produce loads which won't fit about your ship.

Does that make any sense to you? That you can't roll for any freight unless you can carry it all? It shouldn't make any sense because it's nonsense and yet you're assuming it holds true for the passengers table.

 

[aramis]

The wording of the rules implies you're not even allowed to roll for potential HP's unless you already have a steward. That's the problem, Orr.

 

[Orr]

The wording of the rules implies you're not even allowed to roll for potential HP's unless you already have a steward.

Implies? That table has been out for nearly 40 years now. Do you know anyone who interpreted the table in that manner? Or actually ran a game in that manner?

Besides, as Hans pointed out, any prospective passenger can buy a High Passage in order to bump another passenger and then fly as a Middle passenger. That [High Psg number rolled up on the passenger table just doesn't include High passengers who require a steward to wipe their noses, but also includes passengers who are need to get somewhere and are willing to pay extra to do so.

Of course if you can't even roll for high passengers unless you have a steward on hand, you aren't going to get those desperate Middle passengers willing to pay more.

That's the problem, Orr.

No. After reading several of the OP's other posted questions, I'm sure the actual problem here is one I'm not going to mention lest I get banned.

 

[snrdg082102]

Hello everyone,

Thank you to one and all who have been trying to answer my question about the steward requirement for the free trader and by extension the subsidized merchant, subsidized liner, the yacht, or any non-military ship with the potential of carrying high passengers.

Next my apologies for not getting a handle on the subject of the steward crew position with all the help provided.

At least one person has referred to a rule in CT Book 2 that a steward is required to transport high passengers. Unfortunately, no one has yet provided a page number and/or quoted the rule that I can wrap my poor old brain around.

Per CT Book 2 page 16; Ship Crews/Steward:

"If high passengers are carried, then a steward is required." This sentence does appear to indicate that a steward is required when a ship is transporting any number of high passengers.

The next sentence states "There must be at least one steward (steward skill-0 or better) per eight high passengers on the ship.", which in my opinion does not support the first sentence.

To me the second sentence says 1 steward is required per 8 high passengers that have taken passage on the ship, which means that a dedicated steward is not required if the ship carries less than eight high passengers.

CT Book 2 page 2 Travelling describes four types of passage accommodations and the details for a high passage indicates that a ship has a steward or at least someone who caters to them during the trip. To me this may or may not mean a ship is required to have a dedicated steward in order to book a high passage.

I ask again
Can someone please provide the page number in CT Book 2 that clearly states that a dedicated steward is required to carry one or more high passengers.

 

[rancke]

Per CT Book 2 page 16; Ship Crews/Steward:

"If high passengers are carried, then a steward is required." This sentence does appear to indicate that a steward is required when a ship is transporting any number of high passengers.

The next sentence states "There must be at least one steward (steward skill-0 or better) per eight high passengers on the ship.", which in my opinion does not support the first sentence.

To me the second sentence says 1 steward is required per 8 high passengers that have taken passage on the ship, which means that a dedicated steward is not required if the ship carries less than eight high passengers.

The second sentence does have two possible interpretations, either that one steward is required for 1-8 high passengers or that a steward is required for 8-15 high passengers but not for 1-7 high passengers. One of these two interpretations dovetail with the first sentence, the other does not. Logically the interpretation that fits must be the correct one. So you yourself have just quoted the page in CT Book 2 that clearly states that a dedicated steward is required to carry one or more high passengers.


Hans

 

[snrdg082102]

Hello Orr,

Implies? That table has been out for nearly 40 years now. Do you know anyone who interpreted the table in that manner? Or actually ran a game in that manner?

Apparently there have been many who interpreted the rules and table to mean a steward is required even to roll to determine if there are any potential high passengers.

Besides, as Hans pointed out, any prospective passenger can buy a High Passage in order to bump another passenger and then fly as a Middle passenger. That [High Psg number rolled up on the passenger table just doesn't include High passengers who require a steward to wipe their noses, but also includes passengers who are need to get somewhere and are willing to pay extra to do so.

Of course if you can't even roll for high passengers unless you have a steward on hand, you aren't going to get those desperate Middle passengers willing to pay more.

No. After reading several of the OP's other posted questions, I'm sure the actual problem here is one I'm not going to mention lest I get banned.

I doubt that you will get banned if you say something to the effect that I'm a pig-headed idiot who should stop asking obvious questions. If you wish to say something more forceful you can look at my profile and either message me using the COTI feature or a direct email since my address is available there.

Finally you don't have to reply to any of my questions if you feel I'm being dumber than a rock. Of course I and others will not benefit from your not replying.

My apologies for being who I am and not meeting your standards.

 

[snrdg082102]

Hello again Hans,

The second sentence does have two possible interpretations, either that one steward is required for 1-8 high passengers or that a steward is required for 8-15 high passengers but not for 1-7 high passengers. One of these two interpretations dovetail with the first sentence, the other does not. Logically the interpretation that fits must be the correct one. So you yourself have just quoted the page in CT Book 2 that clearly states that a dedicated steward is required to carry one or more high passengers.


Hans

Since I've aggravated Orr and probably several others I'll shut up since I'm obviously too dense and not capable of clearing stating why I am not understanding the crew rule.

Thanks for the help and I'll try not to impose on the forums again.