CT Damage -- A Modest Defense

[tbeard1999]

A paradox, really. I am dissatisfied with CT's "to hit" mechanism (especially when Book 4+ weapons and characters are added), but I don't object to the CT damage system.

In my mind, the CT damage system has several defining characteristics:

1. Targets take full damage since armor is accounted for in the "to hit" system.

Comment: I'm okay with this because (a) its fast and playable and (b) my (admittedly meager) reading on small arms indicates to me that body armor either stops the bullet (though the KE causes bruising, etc.) or it doesn't. There doesn't seem to be a graduated reduction of damage.

2. It's easy to KO someone on the first shot, but nearly impossible to kill someone on the first shot.

Comment: As I've said before, I consider damage to be a campaign design issue more than a rules design issue. The CT damage system seems to be a reasonable compromise -- combats will be relatively dramatic, quick, and decisive as most combatants are KOed when wounded. However the system is not particularly deadly. This can actually work to the campaign's advantage by often creating situations in which the PCs are captured rather than annihilated.

The interesting thing about CT's damage system is that it's very easy to manipulate damage to match your campaign goals without breaking the system. Simply adding 1-3 dice to gun damage will make the game deadlier. Subtracting a die will do the reverse.

And these changes won't break the system because armor is handled in a different step. In an "armor absorbs damage" system, reducing damage alone can result in impenetrable armor. Increasing damage alone can make armor useless. So you have to fiddle with damage *and* armor.

To make the game *really* deadly, yet keep the number of dice reasonable, try this:

Add 1d6 to each weapon's damage. If the a single hit (a) does 14+ points of damage and (b) reduces 2 attributes to 0, the target will die unless he makes a saving throw (8+, DM +1 if END 8+, DM +2 if END 10+). The requirement for 14+ points of damage keeps characters who are already wounded from being killed easily.

 

[tbeard1999]

A paradox, really. I am dissatisfied with CT's "to hit" mechanism (especially when Book 4+ weapons and characters are added), but I don't object to the CT damage system.

In my mind, the CT damage system has several defining characteristics:

1. Targets take full damage since armor is accounted for in the "to hit" system.

Comment: I'm okay with this because (a) its fast and playable and (b) my (admittedly meager) reading on small arms indicates to me that body armor either stops the bullet (though the KE causes bruising, etc.) or it doesn't. There doesn't seem to be a graduated reduction of damage.

2. It's easy to KO someone on the first shot, but nearly impossible to kill someone on the first shot.

Comment: As I've said before, I consider damage to be a campaign design issue more than a rules design issue. The CT damage system seems to be a reasonable compromise -- combats will be relatively dramatic, quick, and decisive as most combatants are KOed when wounded. However the system is not particularly deadly. This can actually work to the campaign's advantage by often creating situations in which the PCs are captured rather than annihilated.

The interesting thing about CT's damage system is that it's very easy to manipulate damage to match your campaign goals without breaking the system. Simply adding 1-3 dice to gun damage will make the game deadlier. Subtracting a die will do the reverse.

And these changes won't break the system because armor is handled in a different step. In an "armor absorbs damage" system, reducing damage alone can result in impenetrable armor. Increasing damage alone can make armor useless. So you have to fiddle with damage *and* armor.

To make the game *really* deadly, yet keep the number of dice reasonable, try this:

Add 1d6 to each weapon's damage. If the a single hit (a) does 14+ points of damage and (b) reduces 2 attributes to 0, the target will die unless he makes a saving throw (8+, DM +1 if END 8+, DM +2 if END 10+). The requirement for 14+ points of damage keeps characters who are already wounded from being killed easily.

 

[Klaus]

I dislike having a range table AND an armour table. Consulting 2 different tables (and on different pages!) to make one role is just plain doozy. Plus the fact that people without armour are almost certain to be hit at any range annoys me.

So I use armour as damage reduction. However, instead of a flat reduction (ie 7 to a damage roll of 3d6), this applies to each die. Each weapon has a penetration rating, which reduces the reduction from armour, and the hit target is subtracted from the hit roll, and this further modifies the armour reduction, with any left over adding to the first die of damage.

eg:

Colin fires at Mavis with his auto-pistol. He needs an 7+ with a skill of 2, for +2. Mavis is wearing a Flak vest for 4 damage reduction.The auto-pistol's penetration value is 1.

Colin fires and rolls a 7, with the plus 2 for skill, equals 9 total. This is 2 over the target. Mavis' armour protects her for 4-1(penetration of the pistol)-2(rolled 2 over target number) for a total of 1 point of damage reduction. So each of the 3 dice rolled by Colin for damage is reduced by 1 point.

Next round, Colin fires again (it seems Mavis is a bit dim and has done nothing since being shot). This time, he rolls a 12. The armour reduction is now...

4-1-7(12+2-7) = -4

Colin's excellent shot ignores armour and adds 4 points of damage to the first die. If Mavis wa snot wearing armour, Colin could have added 7 to his first die.

I've found using this system that CT combat is both deadlier and more gradual. Characters in armour are less likely to be taken out in one hit (no matter how fit they might be), but accurate shots are very good at knocking foes down.

I'm thinking of doing away with rolling to see which attribute is damaged by each dice. The idea is to roll for the first die, then apply the rest in sequence.

ie: for the first die I roll 3, which equates to DEX. Therefore the next damage die is applied to END, and the next to STR.

 

[Klaus]

I dislike having a range table AND an armour table. Consulting 2 different tables (and on different pages!) to make one role is just plain doozy. Plus the fact that people without armour are almost certain to be hit at any range annoys me.

So I use armour as damage reduction. However, instead of a flat reduction (ie 7 to a damage roll of 3d6), this applies to each die. Each weapon has a penetration rating, which reduces the reduction from armour, and the hit target is subtracted from the hit roll, and this further modifies the armour reduction, with any left over adding to the first die of damage.

eg:

Colin fires at Mavis with his auto-pistol. He needs an 7+ with a skill of 2, for +2. Mavis is wearing a Flak vest for 4 damage reduction.The auto-pistol's penetration value is 1.

Colin fires and rolls a 7, with the plus 2 for skill, equals 9 total. This is 2 over the target. Mavis' armour protects her for 4-1(penetration of the pistol)-2(rolled 2 over target number) for a total of 1 point of damage reduction. So each of the 3 dice rolled by Colin for damage is reduced by 1 point.

Next round, Colin fires again (it seems Mavis is a bit dim and has done nothing since being shot). This time, he rolls a 12. The armour reduction is now...

4-1-7(12+2-7) = -4

Colin's excellent shot ignores armour and adds 4 points of damage to the first die. If Mavis wa snot wearing armour, Colin could have added 7 to his first die.

I've found using this system that CT combat is both deadlier and more gradual. Characters in armour are less likely to be taken out in one hit (no matter how fit they might be), but accurate shots are very good at knocking foes down.

I'm thinking of doing away with rolling to see which attribute is damaged by each dice. The idea is to roll for the first die, then apply the rest in sequence.

ie: for the first die I roll 3, which equates to DEX. Therefore the next damage die is applied to END, and the next to STR.

 

[Supplement Four]

Originally posted by Klaus:
I dislike having a range table AND an armour table. Consulting 2 different tables (and on different pages!) to make one role is just plain doozy.

Don't know if this helps, but I don't reference the tables during a game.

Each player in my game has a character notebook. Inside is the character sheet and any misc. notes and stuff, handouts, maps, visual aids, whatever, that the player wants to keep.

I rule that all equipment must be kept on a single piece of paper by itself rather than an "equipment sheet" we typically see in rpgs. This way, it's much easier to drop stuff or hand stuff to another character, or to simply easily see what the character is carrying if needed.

Player: "I'll give the new guy my autopistol, and I'll keep the SMG."

GM: "Fine. Give him your sheet with the autopistol on it."

Now, the equipment sheets don't have to be anything elaborate. I used to create nifty looking docs using Word and PowerPoint, but today, I typically just have my players scratch a few notes down on a piece of regular lined paper.

That autopistol I mention above might look like this (just notes on a piece of regular lined paper written in pencil):

</font><blockquote>code:</font><hr /><pre style="font-size:x-small; font-family: monospace;">TL 5 AutoPistol
(taken from the dead Zho on Aramanx)
C: +1
S: +2
M: -4
L: -6
VL: -
Damage: 3D
No: +1
Ja: +1
Me: -1
Cl: -3
Re: +1
Ab: -1
Ca: -5
Base Wt: .75 kg; Ammo Wt: .25 kg
Rds/Clip: 6 No. of Clips carried: 4
Req DEX: 7 or -2 DM
Adv DEX: 10 and +1 DM</pre>[/QUOTE]Everything a player needs to know is at his fingertips. No flipping through charts.

I usually make one of these up for NPCs as well. That way, if the players strip the bodies, they'll ask what they find, and I'll tell them then hand them the sheet.

The sheets make the equipment more tangible. If a character is carrying a lot of equipment, he'll have a lot of these single sheets and can feel the weight.

It's a system I implemented a long time ago, and we carry it with us no matter which rpg we play.

It works especially well for Classic Trav because, when a character needs to use his equipment, like fire his autopistol, he just flips to that page in his player's notebook, and all his DMs are at his fingertips.

Other notes, like scopes and extended ammo clips and laser points, holsters, silencers...whatever, can also be indicated on the sheet.

In short, everything about that one single weapon or piece of equipment is there, in front of the player, and it's not necessary to flip through books to find the info on something.

 

[Supplement Four]

Originally posted by Klaus:
I dislike having a range table AND an armour table. Consulting 2 different tables (and on different pages!) to make one role is just plain doozy.

Don't know if this helps, but I don't reference the tables during a game.

Each player in my game has a character notebook. Inside is the character sheet and any misc. notes and stuff, handouts, maps, visual aids, whatever, that the player wants to keep.

I rule that all equipment must be kept on a single piece of paper by itself rather than an "equipment sheet" we typically see in rpgs. This way, it's much easier to drop stuff or hand stuff to another character, or to simply easily see what the character is carrying if needed.

Player: "I'll give the new guy my autopistol, and I'll keep the SMG."

GM: "Fine. Give him your sheet with the autopistol on it."

Now, the equipment sheets don't have to be anything elaborate. I used to create nifty looking docs using Word and PowerPoint, but today, I typically just have my players scratch a few notes down on a piece of regular lined paper.

That autopistol I mention above might look like this (just notes on a piece of regular lined paper written in pencil):

</font><blockquote>code:</font><hr /><pre style="font-size:x-small; font-family: monospace;">TL 5 AutoPistol
(taken from the dead Zho on Aramanx)
C: +1
S: +2
M: -4
L: -6
VL: -
Damage: 3D
No: +1
Ja: +1
Me: -1
Cl: -3
Re: +1
Ab: -1
Ca: -5
Base Wt: .75 kg; Ammo Wt: .25 kg
Rds/Clip: 6 No. of Clips carried: 4
Req DEX: 7 or -2 DM
Adv DEX: 10 and +1 DM</pre>[/QUOTE]Everything a player needs to know is at his fingertips. No flipping through charts.

I usually make one of these up for NPCs as well. That way, if the players strip the bodies, they'll ask what they find, and I'll tell them then hand them the sheet.

The sheets make the equipment more tangible. If a character is carrying a lot of equipment, he'll have a lot of these single sheets and can feel the weight.

It's a system I implemented a long time ago, and we carry it with us no matter which rpg we play.

It works especially well for Classic Trav because, when a character needs to use his equipment, like fire his autopistol, he just flips to that page in his player's notebook, and all his DMs are at his fingertips.

Other notes, like scopes and extended ammo clips and laser points, holsters, silencers...whatever, can also be indicated on the sheet.

In short, everything about that one single weapon or piece of equipment is there, in front of the player, and it's not necessary to flip through books to find the info on something.

 

[SirKerry]

Originally posted by Supplement Four:
In short, everything about that one single weapon or piece of equipment is there, in front of the player, and it's not necessary to flip through books to find the info on something.

Very cool. I like and must borrow for my own use.

 

[SirKerry]

Originally posted by Supplement Four:
In short, everything about that one single weapon or piece of equipment is there, in front of the player, and it's not necessary to flip through books to find the info on something.

Very cool. I like and must borrow for my own use.