CT HG2 Combat Rules

[snrdg082102]

Morning all,

On the ct-starships forum Donald McKinney asked for comments associated with bomb-pumped lasers (BPL) found in TNE and the blog found on http://rockymountainnavy.wordpress....veller-high-guard-bomb-pumped-laser-missiles/

for inclusion as an optional missile type in HG.

The blog's author provides an example of how to handle the detonation of a BPL missile at long range.

I have to admit that my skill at using combat rules for any CT, actually all Traveller products, is pretty rotten and I need some help figuring out how energy weapons, lasers, and missiles DMs Allowed To Hit are applied.

Consolidated CT Errata v0.07 provides the following change concerning missile attacks:

Page 45, Missile Attack Table (omission): The list of modifiers says that energy weapons are not allowed at long range. This does not prohibit their use for missile battery defense, however. Remember, the +2 DM for their penetration is for attack; for defense against incoming missiles, they are the same as lasers.

The above rule change appears to indicate that the DMs Allowed To Hit are a target's anti-missile defenses.

Are the DMs Allowed To Hit for energy weapons, lasers, and missiles the targets attempt to knock out the incoming missiles?

 

[Matt123]

Cross posting is often frustrating for those choosing to engage with you. Many here frequent both ct-starships and COTI, keeping up with or having to duplicate your response in two places is a put-off.

Pick a forum, either forum, but not both or several.

My response from ct-starships, in case anyone wishes to contribute.

--//--
There is a roll to hit, with some modifiers. A roll to penetrate active
defences (and/or passive defences), with some modifiers. And a roll to
cause damage, with some modifiers.

The errata you refer to is stating that in this specific case, the
modifier to hit, does not apply when you choose to use this system as an
active defence. Note that this system can be used either as an offensive
system or as an active defensive system, not both.

 

[Whipsnade]

Page 45, Missile Attack Table (omission): The list of modifiers says that energy weapons are not allowed at long range. This does not prohibit their use for missile battery defense, however. Remember, the +2 DM for their penetration is for attack; for defense against incoming missiles, they are the same as lasers.

The errata is straightforward. You can use energy weapons as a missile defense regardless of what range the missiles were fired from. The +2DM for energy weapons' attack rolls does not apply when energy weapons are used for defense.

The above rule change appears to indicate that the DMs Allowed To Hit are a target's anti-missile defenses.

Could you restate that? I'm having trouble understanding what you're asking.

Are the DMs Allowed To Hit for energy weapons, lasers, and missiles the targets attempt to knock out the incoming missiles?

Again, could you restate that?

 

[snrdg082102]

Hello Matt,

Thanks for the reply and advise. Unfortunately, I have posted on ct-starships in the past and did not get a response until after I posted here. In this case I wanted to hedge my chances on getting a response.

Cross posting is often frustrating for those choosing to engage with you. Many here frequent both ct-starships and COTI, keeping up with or having to duplicate your response in two places is a put-off.

Pick a forum, either forum, but not both or several.

My response from ct-starships, in case anyone wishes to contribute.

--//--
There is a roll to hit, with some modifiers. A roll to penetrate active
defences (and/or passive defences), with some modifiers. And a roll to
cause damage, with some modifiers.

The errata you refer to is stating that in this specific case, the
modifier to hit, does not apply when you choose to use this system as an
active defence. Note that this system can be used either as an offensive
system or as an active defensive system, not both.

Are the energy weapon, laser, and missile DMs in the To Hit applied to the ship firing the missiles or the target trying to stop the incoming ordance?

Is the to penetrate phase where the target is trying to stop the incoming ordance?

 

[Whipsnade]

Are the energy weapon, laser, and missile DMs in the To Hit applied to the ship firing the missiles or the target trying to stop the incoming ordance?

I cannot understand why you're confused. Seriously, Tom, it's beyond comprehension. I know you seemingly read things differently, but this alleged confusion of yours is unbelievable. Do you even have HG2? Have you even tried reading how the combat system works?

Is the to penetrate phase where the target is trying to stop the incoming ordance?

Yes, of course it is. Why else would it be called the penetration phase?

Let's start at the beginning because you obviously don't yet understand how the combat system works.

Firing any weapon at a ship in HG2 is a two step process. A To Hit roll is made to see if the battery hits the target and then, if applicable, a To Penetrate roll is made to see if the hit penetrates any active and/or passive defenses. Both rolls are also effected by various DMs.

Missile attacks will first roll to see if they hit. The attacking player finds rating of the missile battery on the To Hit table and determines the target number. The attacker then must roll that number or greater on 2D6 while also applying all DMs.

Once a hit has been achieved, the attacking players asks if the defending player will employ any active defenses like sand, beams, and repulsors and whether the defending player has the passive defense provided by dampers. If the defender will be employing defenses, the attacker cross indexes the missile battery rating with the defending battery's rating to determine the To Penetrate target number. Once again, the attacker must roll that number or greater on 2D6.

The errata you're allegedly confused about deals with energy weapons. Those type of weapons are not allowed to attack at Long range. They are allowed to be used as a defense against missile hits launched at Long range however.

When used OFFENSIVELY by the ATTACKING PLAYER energy weapons are given a +2 DM on their To Penetrate roll against sandcasters only. When energy weapons are being used as a defense against missile hits, they do not receive any DM at all.

 

[Matt123]

Some weapons (Beam Laser, Pulse laser, Fusion & Plasma) may be used either to inflict damage or as active defences to defeat incoming missile volleys.

When they are used to attack, their respects DM's are used to hit and are applied to the To Hit roll. This for example makes Laser fire less effective at long range (whilst Fusion & Plasma cannot fire at all at long range and missile fire is less effective at short range).

The second step, after you have succeeded in scoring hits (ie: you pick up all the successful dice) is to then try to penetrate any active defences. For the weapons in question (Beam Laser, Pulse laser, Fusion & Plasma) the only active defence usable against them is sand. Fusion & Plasma get a +2 bonus to penetrate as they are reasonably effective at burning through sand.

Then you go on to damage.

When you getting fired upon by missiles. The attacker after picking up his successful To Hit dice, must then get through your active defences. You declare that 2 laser batteries and 2 fusion batteries, which have not already fired (and cannot now fire again this turn). The attacker takes 4 successful hits and attempts rolls on the "sand or beam" table. The only modifiers that apply is relative computer size. Any of those four that succeed may then roll on the damage table with the other successful hits.

The active defence fusion guns are not attempting to penetrate (they are being penetrated), therefore do not get any modifiers. By convention (& likely in the errata too), all defensive fire is at short range meaning Energy Weapons may be used and there is no penalty for lasers trying to knock out missiles at long range.

 

[snrdg082102]

Evening Whipsnade,

Thank you for the reply.

This is an update that between you and Matt I've fogured out that I was trying to add all the To Hit DMs for missiles and not that as separate DMs for Beam Weapon and Missile attacks.

Overthinking has once again shot me in the foot. Thanks all for the help.

I cannot understand why you're confused. Seriously, Tom, it's beyond comprehension. I know you seemingly read things differently, but this alleged confusion of yours is unbelievable. Do you even have HG2? Have you even tried reading how the combat system works?

Yes, I've read through the HG combat system several times, I followed most of the process using the examples from this link http://rockymountainnavy.wordpress....veller-high-guard-bomb-pumped-laser-missiles/

Unfortunately, I haven't found an example that applies the last three DMs Allowed To Hit. Then I read the Consolidated CT Errata about energy weapons.

Yes, of course it is. Why else would it be called the penetration phase?

My first thought on penetration is when an armor piercing round knocks out a tank.

Of course getting through enemy defensive lines is also penetration.

Let's start at the beginning because you obviously don't yet understand how the combat system works.

Firing any weapon at a ship in HG2 is a two step process. A To Hit roll is made to see if the battery hits the target and then, if applicable, a To Penetrate roll is made to see if the hit penetrates any active and/or passive defenses. Both rolls are also effected by various DMs.

Missile attacks will first roll to see if they hit. The attacking player finds rating of the missile battery on the To Hit table and determines the target number. The attacker then must roll that number or greater on 2D6 while also applying all DMs.

I make a long range attack using missiles as Factor 5 which requires a To Hit number of 4. My ship's computer and the target's are the same model giving a relative computer size DM of zero. The target has an agility of 0 and has a size code of Q. The agility rating DM is zero and I get a plus two for a DM of Computer 0 + Agility 0 + Size 2 = 2.

Rolling 2d6 I get a 5 and with a DM of 2 I have successfully hit the target exceeding the To Hit number of 4 by 3.

If I had launched the missiles at close range the To Hit DM is Computer 0 + Agility 0 + Size 2 - Short range 1 = 1. If my die roll was 2 then I would get a hit.

Why would firing a laser be a -1 when I'm launching, candle illuminates

They combined the allowed DMs into one section for both missile and beam weapons.

Once a hit has been achieved, the attacking players asks if the defending player will employ any active defenses like sand, beams, and repulsors and whether the defending player has the passive defense provided by dampers. If the defender will be employing defenses, the attacker cross indexes the missile battery rating with the defending battery's rating to determine the To Penetrate target number. Once again, the attacker must roll that number or greater on 2D6.

The errata you're allegedly confused about deals with energy weapons. Those type of weapons are not allowed to attack at Long range. They are allowed to be used as a defense against missile hits launched at Long range however.

That means an energy weapon or laser used for anti-missile defense applies a -1 to the Missile Attack To Hit DM.

When used OFFENSIVELY by the ATTACKING PLAYER energy weapons are given a +2 DM on their To Penetrate roll against sandcasters only. When energy weapons are being used as a defense against missile hits, they do not receive any DM at all.

Combining the DMs for Missile and Beams is what threw me for a loop.

To Hit DMs applied to missiles, lasers, and energy weapons are relative computer size, target agility, and target size

Specific Missile Attack To Hit DMs are Missiles -1 at short range and energy weapons errata -1.

Thanks for the help

Energy Weapons have no To Hit Dms

Lasers have a To Hit DM of -1 at long range

 

[snrdg082102]

Evening Matt,

Another thank you for your assistance.

Some weapons (Beam Laser, Pulse laser, Fusion & Plasma) may be used either to inflict damage or as active defences to defeat incoming missile volleys.

When they are used to attack, their respects DM's are used to hit and are applied to the To Hit roll. This for example makes Laser fire less effective at long range (whilst Fusion & Plasma cannot fire at all at long range and missile fire is less effective at short range).

The second step, after you have succeeded in scoring hits (ie: you pick up all the successful dice) is to then try to penetrate any active defences. For the weapons in question (Beam Laser, Pulse laser, Fusion & Plasma) the only active defence usable against them is sand. Fusion & Plasma get a +2 bonus to penetrate as they are reasonably effective at burning through sand.

Then you go on to damage.

When you getting fired upon by missiles. The attacker after picking up his successful To Hit dice, must then get through your active defences. You declare that 2 laser batteries and 2 fusion batteries, which have not already fired (and cannot now fire again this turn). The attacker takes 4 successful hits and attempts rolls on the "sand or beam" table. The only modifiers that apply is relative computer size. Any of those four that succeed may then roll on the damage table with the other successful hits.

The active defence fusion guns are not attempting to penetrate (they are being penetrated), therefore do not get any modifiers. By convention (& likely in the errata too), all defensive fire is at short range meaning Energy Weapons may be used and there is no penalty for lasers trying to knock out missiles at long range.

Neither energy weapons, lasers, or missiles used in defensive actions have any To Hit DM the To Hit DMs are combined for missiles and beam weapons.

See I told you I was confused

 

[Whipsnade]

That means an energy weapon or laser used for anti-missile defense applies a -1 to the Missile Attack To Hit DM.

No, it does not. Where is there anything that even remotely suggests that?

To Hit rolls are modified by target agility, target size, computer differential, and weapon-specific range penalties only.

To Penetrate rolls are modified by computer differential only.

Lasers, energy weapons, repulsors, dampers, and sandcasters contest missile hits via their specific To Penetrate matrix only. They do not inflict any additional DMs on the To Hit roll.

 

[Matt123]

Or to put it another way;

The "To Hit" DMs only apply to the "To Hit" die roll.

The roll to Penetrate and the roll to damage are not "To Hit" rolls and therefore do not receive "To Hit" DMs.

 

[snrdg082102]

Morning Whipsnade,

No, it does not. Where is there anything that even remotely suggests that?

To Hit rolls are modified by target agility, target size, computer differential, and weapon-specific range penalties only.

To Penetrate rolls are modified by computer differential only.

Lasers, energy weapons, repulsors, dampers, and sandcasters contest missile hits via their specific To Penetrate matrix only. They do not inflict any additional DMs on the To Hit roll.

You are right and my apologies that the update I wrote to my reply failed to say disregard my ramblings. Thank you and Matt for getting me back on track.