General The infantry laser problem

[Enoki]

Another issue that really isn't dealt with on lasers is the time they are applied to a target. Unlike a chemical cartridge + bullet or gauss rifle, a laser--and other energy weapons--don't release their energy in an instant and that's all you get. With a laser you can keep it on a target and continue to dump more energy into the hit location sort of like a light speed machinegun. If a fraction of a second burst doesn't work, give the target several seconds of energy and see what happens.

Energy weapons are like garden hoses limited only by how much energy you have available to use. So, if you were some laser armed infantryman your laser rifle fires as long as you hold the trigger down. If it has some limiter to length of fire you can bet at some point if the weapon needs longer bursts somebody will figure out how to get around that circuitry...

 

[Condottiere]

Overheating seems an issue.

 

[Condottiere]

That's not what I came back for.

It seems that some soldiers have set up procedures for the public to donate, in order to acquire frontline equipment.

If not, having to fund personal equipment themselves, if not to get friends and family to assist.

As such, that would tend to focus very much on essential equipment, as opposed to useful.

 

[kilemall]

Another issue that really isn't dealt with on lasers is the time they are applied to a target. Unlike a chemical cartridge + bullet or gauss rifle, a laser--and other energy weapons--don't release their energy in an instant and that's all you get. With a laser you can keep it on a target and continue to dump more energy into the hit location sort of like a light speed machinegun. If a fraction of a second burst doesn't work, give the target several seconds of energy and see what happens.

Energy weapons are like garden hoses limited only by how much energy you have available to use. So, if you were some laser armed infantryman your laser rifle fires as long as you hold the trigger down. If it has some limiter to length of fire you can bet at some point if the weapon needs longer bursts somebody will figure out how to get around that circuitry...

I would think the big limiter is heat.

 

[Enoki]

I would think the big limiter is heat.

One of them would be. Another would be how much energy your battery pack etc., has in it. But my point is, if you dump the equivalent of say 5 to 10 bursts of fire all at once into a target... Then something like reflect isn't going to do much good, it simply gets overwhelmed by the amount of energy hitting it.

 

[atpollard]

One of them would be. Another would be how much energy your battery pack etc., has in it. But my point is, if you dump the equivalent of say 5 to 10 bursts of fire all at once into a target... Then something like reflect isn't going to do much good, it simply gets overwhelmed by the amount of energy hitting it.

Maybe. My father was a research chemist (before he retired). One of his projects was a paint that would make wood (or anything else) fireproof. Their solution was a chemical reaction that absorbed the energy from the fire to expand the material and increase its insulation. The more you burned it, the greater its resistance to being burned. Reflec COULD work like that ... reflecting 90% of the energy and converting the other 10% into expanding thermal protection.

Not saying it does, just that it could.

 

[kilemall]

Maybe. My father was a research chemist (before he retired). One of his projects was a paint that would make wood (or anything else) fireproof. Their solution was a chemical reaction that absorbed the energy from the fire to expand the material and increase its insulation. The more you burned it, the greater its resistance to being burned. Reflec COULD work like that ... reflecting 90% of the energy and converting the other 10% into expanding thermal protection.

Not saying it does, just that it could.

Make it shiny like aluminum and you’ve got the misunderstanding that it reflects.

 

[atpollard]

Make it shiny like aluminum and you’ve got the misunderstanding that it reflects.

Another of his projects involved absorbing RADAR and re-emiting it at a different wavelength (another special coating and one that was going to end his getting speeding tickets ... well, the Air Force might have wanted it for SOMETHING, too. ) The relative point to "REFLEC Armor" is that the strength of a L.A.S.E.R. is the columnation of the energy and its uniform wavelegth. If REFLEC absorbed and re-emitted the energy in a broader range of wavelengths and a greater range of directions (like a prism splitting and dispersing a beam), then the appearance would be a bright reflection [flash] of dissipated non-coherent energy. The surface might sparkle like diamonds as it absorbed and dissipated normal light.

 

[Condottiere]

Which would differ from absorbing heat and energy from a fusion gun, man portable.

 

[mike wightman]

Which is mostly kinetic energy rather than electromagnetic radiation.

 

[kilemall]

Which is mostly kinetic energy rather than electromagnetic radiation.

Right, it’s a munroe effect type weapon but able to maintain coherence several times over that of HEAT warheads.

HEAT doesn’t burn through, it punches through.

 

[Diveguy]

EOD?

For a significant amount of time, yes.

 

[Meteoric Assault]

You had the allegorical smell of PETN

 

[infojunky]

Another of his projects involved absorbing RADAR and re-emiting it at a different wavelength (another special coating and one that was going to end his getting speeding tickets ... well, the Air Force might have wanted it for SOMETHING, too. )

Note, the new paint on the various aircraft on the carrier I was briefly stationed on was a classified item... I.e. you had to sign the stuff both out and in...

 

[atpollard]

Note, the new paint on the various aircraft on the carrier I was briefly stationed on was a classified item... I.e. you had to sign the stuff both out and in...

FYI, his crowning achievement was a material that would absorb hundreds of times its weight in water (one of his earliest products). I was raised on experimental prototypes for what became Pampers Disposable Diapers (and feminine products that I had no part in).

 

[McPerth]

Another issue that really isn't dealt with on lasers is the time they are applied to a target. Unlike a chemical cartridge + bullet or gauss rifle, a laser--and other energy weapons--don't release their energy in an instant and that's all you get. With a laser you can keep it on a target and continue to dump more energy into the hit location sort of like a light speed machinegun. If a fraction of a second burst doesn't work, give the target several seconds of energy and see what happens.

I have always envisioned laser rifles and carabines as the qwuivalent (scaled down, of course) to pulse lasers, not beam ones.

As I envisioned them the trigger would have 3 positions: out, aim, when it will emit a low power laser akin the ones to help a rible to aim, and fire, with would emit a short pulse of high energy. This, of course would make them quite accurate. A continuous high power beam will empty the battery in no time (aside from the heat problems some have pointed here)

Needless to say, that's how I envision them, YMMV...

 

[Meteoric Assault]

I would (and do) assume you could hook the TL 13 Laser Rifle up to the mini-fusion generator powering the PGMP-13. That would increase the total price by another KCr 22, but you could shoot all day long and only have to recharge every 24 hours.

You raise a point when you say (shoot all day) what is the Preventive Maintenance Schedule for a laser weapon. In garrison I imagine it’s a parts swap out, functions check and off to the range. On the operational field does the gunner swap barrels like a LMG? I concede much of the tech is beyond my limited comprehension but the thought should be given to the notion of service life.

 

[McPerth]

On the operational field does the gunner swap barrels like a LMG?

In fact I've always wondered it the Laser weapons really need barrels or are more "torch like" (for lack of better description). Unlike chemical or magnetic propelled rounds, or even plasma/fusion, taht need to be acceperated, the laser does not, and so doesn't need a barrel for the acceleration.

When I was a boy, one of the things that caught my attention in Space 1999 TV show was their handguns had no barrel, and I have assumed sicne then maybe lasers don't really need it (though I must concede maybe they had nothing to do with lasers)...

(Image taken from https://moonbasealpha.fandom.com/wiki/Stun_gun)


(

 

[Meteoric Assault]

In fact I've always wondered it the Laser weapons really need barrels or are more "torch like" (for lack of better description). Unlike chemical or magnetic propelled rounds, or even plasma/fusion, taht need to be acceperated, the laser does not, and so doesn't need a barrel for the acceleration.

When I was a boy, one of the things that caught my attention in Space 1999 TV show was their handguns had no barrel, and I have assumed sicne then maybe lasers don't really need it (though I must concede maybe they had nothing to do with lasers)...

(Image taken from https://moonbasealpha.fandom.com/wiki/Stun_gun)

View attachment 5304
(

I have been rewatching that lately

Cliche schematics I dug up for the thread

 

[Enoki]

I have always envisioned laser rifles and carabines as the qwuivalent (scaled down, of course) to pulse lasers, not beam ones.

As I envisioned them the trigger would have 3 positions: out, aim, when it will emit a low power laser akin the ones to help a rible to aim, and fire, with would emit a short pulse of high energy. This, of course would make them quite accurate. A continuous high power beam will empty the battery in no time (aside from the heat problems some have pointed here)

Needless to say, that's how I envision them, YMMV...

Even if the weapon is pulsed, how it pulses would make the difference. For example, it might pulse at say, on for 1 millisecond, off for 9. That means it pulses 1000 times a second but is only on for 1/10th of a second total in that time period. If each pulse were a watt, you deliver in 1 second 1000 watts of power to say a 1 square millimeter surface area. Scale that up as necessary or change the time intervals.

The point is, it isn't delivering one burst but hundreds or thousands and could likely do it over several seconds. It's the difference between single-shot, semiautomatic, and automatic. Radar, for example, works that way. It emits a short pulse followed by a long off period, so the peak continuous power is much lower even as each pulse is very powerful. The intervals can be very short with electronics.

Such a weapon would appear to be a beam even as it really is pulsed. It would also hit the target so often that there would be a buildup of energy at the point of impact. A beam laser would emit a continuous, uninterrupted beam of energy instead.

For targeting, the energy emitted is a fraction of the full power beam and might best be handled by having "set triggers" on the weapon.

Something like that. You use the first to aim, and the second to fire. With a pulse laser with the trigger held, it fires continuously, or it will fire for a set, longer than one pull, amount of time--like a 3-round burst. That keeps things from overheating. For something heavier, you have a cooling system built in, like a water-cooled machinegun. Of course, the materials used would be far more heat resistant than simple steel or whatever as well.