CT HG2 Command Crew

[Vladika]

Why is there a Doctor, and a Nurse, as part of the command crew? Just because Star Trek did it?

It makes no sense to me.

Traditionally, ANY Medical personnel, no matter their rank, are outside the chain of command. Their rank is respected, they are saluted, but they can neither issue orders, nor would any be expected to be followed. (With the exception of their own medical command structure.)

The lowliest Ensign, in the command crew, or shipboard operation, will be inline for command, should attrition take it down that far, before medical staff of any rank.

(Now a smart Ensign WILL take a few cues and suggestions, both due to rank and overall military experience, but, he's STILL in charge.)

So, WHY does a command crew include medical staff? Particularly when HG2 goes on to require additional medical personnel for increasing crew increments.

CO, XO, Pilots, Navigators, (Weapons officers, Chief Engineer; in line to command), Comm, Comp and even Sensor officers make sense; but Medical Staff?

 

[aramis]

The requirement appears to be setting a minimum for "real warships" (≥1KTd)...

Which, at the low end can have fewer than the 120 crew needed to trigger the ration, which rounds down, BTW.

So, basically, 200-1000Td: 1 Medic
1000Td to 119 crew+MidPsg: Doctor + Medic

As for in the command crew, that's the block of "warships all need these":
A captain, an XO, a CMO, a supporting Medic, a CEngr, 3 admin ratings, etc.

It's not referencing the CMO being in line of command, its just referencing that they are the crew that are standard department heads. And note: the admin staff are also part of the command crew calcs.

 

[snrdg082102]

Morning Vladika and aramis,

Vladika, I've been looking at my three copies of HG2 and the Consolidated CT Errata trying to locate the Command Section requirement for a nurse in addition to the Medical Officer on hulls >1,000 tons. The Medical section on hulls >1,000 tons require 1 medic per 240 non-medical personnel on board.

So far I have not been able to find the need for a nurse being required in HG2, Consolidated CT Errata, JTAS 6, 7, 8, or 14.

The only requirement for a medical officer and nurse I know of is from HG1, which is no longer valid with the three part article found in JTAS 6-8 and the publication of HG2 in Book 5 in 1980.



Aramis, I've been looking for the book and page that states how crew calculations are to be rounded. Do you have a book and page number with that information and could you please provide the source?

Per the Consolidated CT Errata page 15, which returns the Medical Section, hulls >1,000 tons require 1 medic per 240 non-medical personnel, including ship's troops, carried. The section is broken down into 30% medical officers and + 30% NCO.

Hulls, as indicated, >=200 and <=1,000 tons requires 1 medic plus 1 medic per 120 passengers. My definition of passengers is pilot, navigator, steward, gunners, ship's troops, and any other non-medical personnel.

High Guard Shipyard appears to calculate crews on hulls > 1,000 tons per HG2 and hulls 1,000 tons and under based on Book 2.

If the Command Section is listing the department heads why are the Chief Engineer, Gunnery Officer, and Flight Officer listed in different sections. Why isn't there a Service crew department head?

Reinstating the Medical Section, in my mind, is the place to list the Medical Officer.

The department heads for engineering, gunnery, flight, and service sections, in my opinion, are the most senior officers per the requirements in HG2.

Of course I'm the odd person on the topic.

 

[Vladika]

Morning Vladika and aramis,

Vladika, I've been looking at my three copies of HG2 and the Consolidated CT Errata trying to locate the Command Section requirement for a nurse in addition to the Medical Officer on hulls >1,000 tons. The Medical section on hulls >1,000 tons require 1 medic per 240 non-medical personnel on board.

So far I have not been able to find the need for a nurse being required in HG2, Consolidated CT Errata, JTAS 6, 7, 8, or 14.

The only requirement for a medical officer and nurse I know of is from HG1, which is no longer valid with the three part article found in JTAS 6-8 and the publication of HG2 in Book 5 in 1980.



Aramis, I've been looking for the book and page that states how crew calculations are to be rounded. Do you have a book and page number with that information and could you please provide the source?

Per the Consolidated CT Errata page 15, which returns the Medical Section, hulls >1,000 tons require 1 medic per 240 non-medical personnel, including ship's troops, carried. The section is broken down into 30% medical officers and + 30% NCO.

Hulls, as indicated, >=200 and <=1,000 tons requires 1 medic plus 1 medic per 120 passengers. My definition of passengers is pilot, navigator, steward, gunners, ship's troops, and any other non-medical personnel.

High Guard Shipyard appears to calculate crews on hulls > 1,000 tons per HG2 and hulls 1,000 tons and under based on Book 2.

If the Command Section is listing the department heads why are the Chief Engineer, Gunnery Officer, and Flight Officer listed in different sections. Why isn't there a Service crew department head?

Reinstating the Medical Section, in my mind, is the place to list the Medical Officer.

The department heads for engineering, gunnery, flight, and service sections, in my opinion, are the most senior officers per the requirements in HG2.

Of course I'm the odd person on the topic.

Tom, you are correct on the missing Nurse. She's toast since HG1 went by the wayside. Interesting though that the 1/240 rule, added as errata, was in fact a HG1 requirement?

I don't think Andrea worked that into HGSY. Also, last I looked HGSY didn't figure Power Plant into the equation, just Maneuver and Jump crew. HGSY, again, last I looked, fails to have a full crew for all 3 drive types; Power, Maneuver & Jump.

I'd go with aramis, if I understood him correctly, and have the service crew department head come out of the service crew allotment.

As for Engineering Chief, I'm with you, though we are bucking the rules to see it that way. He should be a separate department head. (Also, on RW merchant ships, the Chief Engineer is, sometimes, listed right below the captain in "chain of command".)

Your position on medics for Ships Troops bothers me some. For straight "ships troops", I'd include the troops in the overall numbers of crew to compute ships medical staff. For Marines. I'd go with separate medics, not part of the ships permanent crew.

 

[aramis]

I've seen on real world the following chains:

Passenger Vessel, day trip	Captain Pilot Engineer Steward	evidenced by worn stripes
Fishing Vessel, small, variation 1	Captain/Pilot Deck Boss Engineer
Fishing Vessel, small, variation 2	Captain/Pilot Engineer Deck Boss

It's also worth noting that The HG rules really don't distinguish department heads all that well. Applying them slavishly is a perilous action for verisimilitude.

 

[snrdg082102]

Howdy Vladika,

Tom, you are correct on the missing Nurse. She's toast since HG1 went by the wayside. Interesting though that the 1/240 rule, added as errata, was in fact a HG1 requirement?

You are right with the exception of wording and not mentioning the command section the errata Medical is from HG1

I don't think Andrea worked that into HGSY. Also, last I looked HGSY didn't figure Power Plant into the equation, just Maneuver and Jump crew. HGSY, again, last I looked, fails to have a full crew for all 3 drive types; Power, Maneuver & Jump.

Here is a couple of entries taken from the HGS v2.0.0.13 component.text based on the CT AM3 Vargr Corsair using HG2 design rules:

CREW
Pilot, Navigator, 4 Engineers, Medic, 4 Gunners

ENGINEERING
M-Drive Factor-5: 56.000 Td; MCr 28.000
J-Drive Factor-2: 12.000 Td; MCr 48.000
P-Plant Factor-5: 60.000 Td; MCr 180.000; +20.000 EP

I've created HG2 spreadsheets and they match almost everything, except cost which I've never matched.

Depends on how you breakdown the engineering crew. Both Book 2 and HG2 both say that one engineer is required for each 35 tons in Book 2 and 100 tons in HG2 of drives installed. Drive tonnage = Power Plant + M-Drive + J-Drive. The Corsair is 400 tons and uses Book 2's requirement of 35 tons. 56 + 12 + 60 = round(128 / 35,0) = round(3.6571,0) = 4.

Using the HG2 rule for engineering the Corsair requires 56 + 12 + 60 = round(128 / 100,0) = round(1.28,0) = 1 engineer.

I've tried more than once to suggest that each system should calculate the number of engineers required separately or as an alternate method combining the power plant and an installed into one for calculating the number of engineers needed. The j-drive engineers would be separately calculated.

Unfortunately, the consensus is to stick with the rules as written of lumping them together to get the number of engineers needed. HGS appears to round down on decimal fraction .4 or less and round up on decimal fraction .5 and greater.

I'd go with aramis, if I understood him correctly, and have the service crew department head come out of the service crew allotment.

As for Engineering Chief, I'm with you, though we are bucking the rules to see it that way. He should be a separate department head. (Also, on RW merchant ships, the Chief Engineer is, sometimes, listed right below the captain in "chain of command".)

Here is how I, based on being in the USN, see the section/department head breakdown in HG2 with Consolidated CT Errata on hulls >1,000 tons:

Command Department Head: CO via XO
Medical Department Head: Medical Officer
Engineering Department Head: Chief Engineer
Gunnery/Screens Department Head: Chief Gunnery Officer
Flight Department Head: Flight Officer with the Flight Supervision Officer as an assistant.
Ship's Troops: Highest ranking Officer or NCO depending on the unit size.
Service Crew: I'd call this section Supply so the department head is the highest ranking officer of NCO.

Your position on medics for Ships Troops bothers me some. For straight "ships troops", I'd include the troops in the overall numbers of crew to compute ships medical staff. For Marines. I'd go with separate medics, not part of the ships permanent crew.

HG2 Book 5 page 33 specifically refers to a marine contingent as Ship's Troops. Then adds (or military) contingents both of which are used as security forces and for military adventures. The rule refers to Book 4 Mercenary on the organization of ship's troops.

I'm not sure what is meant by "straight" ship's troops based on HG2 Book 5 page 33 specifically referring to a marine (or military) contingent as Ship's Troops serving as a security force or use in military adventures. The Ship's Troops section refers to Book 4 Mercenary for their organization. Book 4 also lists requirements for medics.

Between wording "Most ship's over 1,000 tons have..." in Ship's Troops and the requirement for 3 service crew members when Ship's Troops are not carried strongly suggest Ship's Troops are optional.

Every design I've seen Total Crew = Command + Medical + Engineering + Gunnery + Service Crew. I've seen the Flight Section included in some and as separate entries in others. Ship's Troops have been listed separately.

I'll concede that using Ship's Troops to bump the Medical Section on hulls > 1,000 tons falls with the one medic per non-medical personnel is per the rules. However, if Ship's Troops are organized per Book 4 they also have separate medics.

Ship's Troops having medics of their own is another topic that I've posted about and have had the consensus say I'm out to lunch.

Thanks for the reply

 

[Vladika]

By "straight troops" I meant troops as part of the permanent ships crew, used mostly for shipboard security.

Marines, and any ships troops away for the ship are going to need their own assigned medics, and in higher proportion to the crew.

If they are pulled from the ship med section, that would leave the ship short a few medics. If any are lost dirt side in an ensuing fight, the ship would not only be shorthanded, but with the need to rapidly treat the wounded, I'd see medical services overwhelmed.

If those troops are going to fight, they definitely need extra medics aboard.

I know a lot of people would say "turn them into a Popsicle" until base facilities are available. Problems there from my perspective, militaristic if for no other reason. Sure, deep freeze for later what the ship can't handle, but... If I was a wounded troop, I'd not want to be put into something that looks to coffin like!

Your department head mix looks right to me.

 

[snrdg082102]

Hello again Vladika,

By "straight troops" I meant troops as part of the permanent ships crew, used mostly for shipboard security.

Looking at the ship example on HG2 page 52 the Marines, who are Ship's Troops, are not counted as part of the Crew. To be honest I have not seen any official designs that carry Ship's Troops/Marines combined with the Crew. In Adventure 7 the Mercenary unit is listed separately from the Broadsword Class Mercenary Cruiser's permanent crew. Ship's Troops can be used for military adventures/actions at the whim of the, I thinking, ship's commander or more likely the referee's story line.

My take is that the Service Crew provides the personnel in order to have a permanent security force onboard. They are already part of the permanent crew count. If you count the Service Crew Security personnel as ship's troops they can be deployed as part of a military adventure.

Marines, and any ships troops away for the ship are going to need their own assigned medics, and in higher proportion to the crew.

If they are pulled from the ship med section, that would leave the ship short a few medics. If any are lost dirt side in an ensuing fight, the ship would not only be shorthanded, but with the need to rapidly treat the wounded, I'd see medical services overwhelmed.

If those troops are going to fight, they definitely need extra medics aboard.

Your comments about Ship's Troops having medics separate from the ship's medical section are similar to what I've used in past discussions. Of course I can now agree that Ship's Troops, being basically passengers, should be used to establish a ship's medical staff.

Hopefully, I'm helping out and not being hard headed as I sometimes can be.

I know a lot of people would say "turn them into a Popsicle" until base facilities are available. Problems there from my perspective, militaristic if for no other reason. Sure, deep freeze for later what the ship can't handle, but... If I was a wounded troop, I'd not want to be put into something that looks to coffin like!

Your department head mix looks right to me.

 

[Carlobrand]

Tom, you are correct on the missing Nurse. She's toast since HG1 went by the wayside. ...

Toasted nurse? Must have been that laser hit to the sick bay.

... Your comments about Ship's Troops having medics separate from the ship's medical section are similar to what I've used in past discussions. Of course I can now agree that Ship's Troops, being basically passengers, should be used to establish a ship's medical staff. ...

HG2 is - intentionally, I think - vague on many details of the organization of a ship's crew. For example, it does not tell you how many people are in the "medical section" - just that there's a chief medical officer. He could draw his supporting staff from the ratings of the command section, from the medics serving the ship's troops, or from a combination of both. If the ship is big enough, one hopes he has subordinate medical officers under his command, but this isn't mentioned. HG2 ultimately cares mainly about the number of warm bodies aboard - and maybe how many of them are officers vs ratings. Beyond what's actually stated, how you organize them is up to the player.

Ship's troops are not simply passengers. They are also described as being part of the damage control parties and "manning of some weapons," though that bit gets a bit difficult because you are left wondering why the ship can fight normally while the troops are all aground on some mission. When they are not part of the complement, the Services section needs to be expanded to provide staff for the security functions that the ship's troops would have handled.

 

[snrdg082102]

Howdy Carlobrand,

Toasted nurse? Must have been that laser hit to the sick bay.

To tell the truth there are, at least as far I can remember, very few details about sick bays in CT. IIRC sick bays are more MT and later rule set additions.

HG2 is - intentionally, I think - vague on many details of the organization of a ship's crew. For example, it does not tell you how many people are in the "medical section" - just that there's a chief medical officer.

The Consolidated CT Errata for HG2 reinstated the HG1 Medical Section on hulls >1,000 tons which requires 1 medic per 240 non-medical, my addition, personnel onboard the ship in addition to the Medical Officer in the Command Crew.

Hulls >=200, <=1,000 tons: 1 medic on hulls >= 200 tons and 1 per 120 passengers, which again is all non-medical personnel onboard.

He could draw his supporting staff from the ratings of the command section, from the medics serving the ship's troops, or from a combination of both. If the ship is big enough, one hopes he has subordinate medical officers under his command, but this isn't mentioned. HG2 ultimately cares mainly about the number of warm bodies aboard - and maybe how many of them are officers vs ratings. Beyond what's actually stated, how you organize them is up to the player.

Per a number of discussions on this forum and others Ship's Troops are rarely broken down pasted the number of bodies being carried and the majority felt they are carried for by the ship's medical section.

Ship's troops are not simply passengers. They are also described as being part of the damage control parties and "manning of some weapons," though that bit gets a bit difficult because you are left wondering why the ship can fight normally while the troops are all aground on some mission. When they are not part of the complement, the Services section needs to be expanded to provide staff for the security functions that the ship's troops would have handled.

Yep, when Ship's Troops are carried they can be used as DC parties, as are the service crew.

The ship, as far as I can tell, still needs to have crews assigned to all weapons and screens onboard. So when the Marine gun crews deploy there are bodies to man the weapons and screens.

Yep, the service crew, I think I've quoted this earlier, adds 1 body per 1,000 tons of hull as a security detachment or department.

Ship's Troops, in my opinion, have medics/corpsman per Book 4.
Service Crew Security Personnel may or may not have medics assigned, but I lean towards they do, since the security personnel can also be used for military adventures.

Thanks Carlobrand for the comments.

Here is a link to the latest habitability criteria for the USN: http://habitability.net

 

[rancke]

Something that might be interesting is to consider whether the manning rules are rules of thumb for gaming purposes, regulations promulgated by the Imperium and/or other interstellar states, or laws of nature. What happens if you have 250 men aboard and only one doctor? Does the doctor get a minus to his skill rolls, do the Imperium impose fines, or does the entire crew die horribly of the Purple Polka-dot Plague?


Hans

 

[Vladika]

Something that might be interesting is to consider whether the manning rules are rules of thumb for gaming purposes, regulations promulgated by the Imperium and/or other interstellar states, or laws of nature. What happens if you have 250 men aboard and only one doctor? Does the doctor get a minus to his skill rolls, do the Imperium impose fines, or does the entire crew die horribly of the Purple Polka-dot Plague?


Hans

I'm not sure about others, but, I believe Tom and I are going for the "best" rules interpretation per HG2.

While a lot of that is subjective, it does matter if you are designing "official" ships, or fleet, with the idea any others you may meet are doing it the same way.

From a Role Play stance, I think there is room for a GREAT deal or leeway.

 

[snrdg082102]

Howdy Hans Rancke,

Something that might be interesting is to consider whether the manning rules are rules of thumb for gaming purposes, regulations promulgated by the Imperium and/or other interstellar states, or laws of nature. What happens if you have 250 men aboard and only one doctor? Does the doctor get a minus to his skill rolls, do the Imperium impose fines, or does the entire crew die horribly of the Purple Polka-dot Plague?


Hans

Depending on how evil the referee is anything is possible. If nothing happens on the cruise then nothing probably happens for being under staffed. Serious injuries fines are probably in order and the possibility of the ship and doctor losing their licenses. Jail time if one or more of the crew and/or passengers die.

If a high ranking individual dies someone is probably going to pay big time.

 

[snrdg082102]

Late afternoon PDT Vladika,

I'm not sure about others, but, I believe Tom and I are going for the "best" rules interpretation per HG2.

While a lot of that is subjective, it does matter if you are designing "official" ships, or fleet, with the idea any others you may meet are doing it the same way.

Vladika is on the mark of what I'm looking for, especially when trying to recreate hulls designed using Book 2 using HG2 rules. Of course the one area I seem not to be able to match is the final cost.

From a Role Play stance, I think there is room for a GREAT deal or leeway.

A ship is one of the major props for Traveller as an RPG. The rules governing the ship spill over to the RPG as an example a ship requires a Medical Officer and two medics. Both medics go down leaving the Medical Officer to tend to the crew and passengers. There is a good chance that the overworked Medical Officer fails a roll with dire consequences for the patient. On the other end the overworked doctor saves everyone. As Vladika suggests the possible outcomes are pretty open.

 

[Carlobrand]

...To tell the truth there are, at least as far I can remember, very few details about sick bays in CT. IIRC sick bays are more MT and later rule set additions. ...

Specifics of layout are for the enterprising player who wants a deck plan or more detailed description, and he has freedom to decide those himself. In smaller ships, my "sick bay" is nothing more than an examination table in a 5-by-10 room off the medic's stateroom, drawn from the 4dT per stateroom allowance. In something like the existing free trader or subsidized merchant, it's IN the medic's stateroom, at best segregated by a heavy curtain. Sick or injured recover in their own rooms. In larger ships, I carve what I can out of the 4dT per stateroom allowance - which can lead to double occupancy crew staterooms with all the space and comfort of a prison cell, but I get my CCU and some decent community spaces out of it.

... The Consolidated CT Errata for HG2 reinstated the HG1 Medical Section on hulls >1,000 tons which requires 1 medic per 240 non-medical, my addition, personnel onboard the ship in addition to the Medical Officer in the Command Crew. ...

Whups, you're right, there it is. I forgot to check errata again. I swear, one day I'm going to scan and print my editions and then paste in the bits of errata so I don't have to keep reminding myself.

... Per a number of discussions on this forum and others Ship's Troops are rarely broken down pasted the number of bodies being carried and the majority felt they are carried for by the ship's medical section. ...

Yeah, I can see that from the errata now:
"Medical Section: The ship should have one medical person for every 240 crew persons (including ship‘s troops) aboard."

Doesn't stop the troops from having their own medics for field operations, as you pointed out, but the ship's medical services are clearly staffed to be adequate to serve the troops' needs without them.

...The ship, as far as I can tell, still needs to have crews assigned to all weapons and screens onboard. So when the Marine gun crews deploy there are bodies to man the weapons and screens. ...

Which is correct, and which is my point: what weapons are the marines manning if the gunners already have that in hand? They're doing something that is considered beneficial but clearly not essential. Maybe they're just helping gunners with missile and sandcaster reloads.

... Here is a link to the latest habitability criteria for the USN: http://habitability.net

Thanks for that, looks interesting.

Something that might be interesting is to consider whether the manning rules are rules of thumb for gaming purposes, regulations promulgated by the Imperium and/or other interstellar states, or laws of nature. What happens if you have 250 men aboard and only one doctor? Does the doctor get a minus to his skill rolls, do the Imperium impose fines, or does the entire crew die horribly of the Purple Polka-dot Plague?...

All of the above, I would expect. The military gets to bend its own rules, after all, so rule of thumb for them. Bureaucracy loves to slap rules down on the hardworking businessman, so regulations for them. And, while 99 times out of a hundred your one doctor is only going to be worrying about the occasional back strain or headache among a 250 man crew on a space-tech ship, when the pinch hits the shortage is gonna have an impact.

I wasn't aware Purple Polka-dot Plague was uniformly lethal. Most cases I've seen where there wasn't adequate medical intervention, there was a definite 20% survival rate. Of course, the polka dots usually left permanent scarring, but that's to be expected under the circumstances.

 

[rancke]

Specifics of layout are for the enterprising player who wants a deck plan or more detailed description, and he has freedom to decide those himself.

Or in other words, he lacks any support from the rules. Everybody has the freedom to do whatever he likes, simply by ignoring any rule and setting detail he doesn't like. Lack of support is never a positive thing even though it is often inevitable if for no other reason than word limits. At best it doesn't matter. Usually it's a burden on the referee, big or small as the case may be.

As for this specific lack of information (in CT), sickbays in small ships, I personally find the lack almost no burden at all, since I just add a stateroom and call it a sickbay. But I don't feel at all thankful that GDW vouchsafed me the freedom to come up with that on my own.

I wasn't aware Purple Polka-dot Plague was uniformly lethal. Most cases I've seen where there wasn't adequate medical intervention, there was a definite 20% survival rate. Of course, the polka dots usually left permanent scarring, but that's to be expected under the circumstances.

I didn't say it was. I asked (by implication) if the lack of a doctor was so serious a problem that it would effectively cripple a ship. What I consider the third kind of prohibition, the kind that are enforced by the universe (the other two are the kind that are enforced by the referee for some game purpose and the kind that are enforced by some in-setting authority (and can be defied if the PCs want to try their luck)).


Hans

 

[snrdg082102]

Evening Carlobrand,

Thanks for the reply,

Originally Posted by snrdg082102
... Per a number of discussions on this forum and others Ship's Troops are rarely broken down passed the number of bodies being carried and the majority felt they are carried for by the ship's medical section. ...

Yeah, I can see that from the errata now:
"Medical Section: The ship should have one medical person for every 240 crew persons (including ship‘s troops) aboard."

Doesn't stop the troops from having their own medics for field operations, as you pointed out, but the ship's medical services are clearly staffed to be adequate to serve the troops' needs without them.

As long as the troops remain onboard the ship has adequate medical staff. Deploying the troops and sending one or more of the ship's medical staff changes the available medical staff to handle casualties onboard the ship should combat occur.

The Marines assigned to safe guarding ballistic missiles on deployed submarine tenders had at least one corpsman in addition to the tenders medical department.

Originally Posted by snrdg082102
...The ship, as far as I can tell, still needs to have crews assigned to all weapons and screens onboard. So when the Marine gun crews deploy there are bodies to man the weapons and screens. ...

Which is correct, and which is my point: what weapons are the marines manning if the gunners already have that in hand? They're doing something that is considered beneficial but clearly not essential. Maybe they're just helping gunners with missile and sandcaster reloads.

Book 4 page 49 Artillery has the ground pounders using fusion guns, plasma guns, meson accelerators, and missiles. Since they are trained to use these systems they can add the equivalent shipboard weapons skill.

Originally Posted by snrdg082102
... Here is a link to the latest habitability criteria for the USN: http://habitability.net

Thanks for that, looks interesting.

You're welcome. In the 1995 copy submarines had exceptions to the criteria in a few areas, this new copy I couldn't find them. I hope the link helps.

 

[aramis]

Vladika is on the mark of what I'm looking for, especially when trying to recreate hulls designed using Book 2 using HG2 rules. Of course the one area I seem not to be able to match is the final cost.

You won't match costs.

Book 2 ships are generally a good bit cheaper, but have larger drives.

The exception is for small high jump hulls.

Note that HG double penalizes lower tech ships - the price per ton is the same for PP, but the size goes up, increasing cost and space. Realistic, perhaps, but unhappy.

 

[snrdg082102]

Hello aramis,

Thanks for the reminder about the difference in Book 2 and Book 5 HG2 costs.

You won't match costs.

Book 2 ships are generally a good bit cheaper, but have larger drives.

The exception is for small high jump hulls.

Note that HG double penalizes lower tech ships - the price per ton is the same for PP, but the size goes up, increasing cost and space. Realistic, perhaps, but unhappy.

My cost using the design process in Book 2 doesn't match the price in CT AM 3 or the Consolidated CT Errata. I'm happy that tonnage and crew came out the same.

I knew going in that using Book 2 drives and power plant in HG2 the cost was going to be different so I'm not overly concerned. I am hoping that when I submit the data sheet based on the ones in the Consolidated CT Errata to Donald McKinney that whoever he gets to check it out will be able to match my work.

I knew that the cost of the Book 2 and HG2 designs weren't going to match, which again didn't surprise me. Unfortunately, I am surprised that my cost trying to follow HG2 using a spreadsheet is a little different than what High Guard Shipyard calculated. I've sent that one to Donald for review and hopefully he or whoever does the check can figure out what I'm doing wrong.

 

[aramis]

Hello aramis,

Thanks for the reminder about the difference in Book 2 and Book 5 HG2 costs.



My cost using the design process in Book 2 doesn't match the price in CT AM 3 or the Consolidated CT Errata. I'm happy that tonnage and crew came out the same.

I knew going in that using Book 2 drives and power plant in HG2 the cost was going to be different so I'm not overly concerned. I am hoping that when I submit the data sheet based on the ones in the Consolidated CT Errata to Donald McKinney that whoever he gets to check it out will be able to match my work.

Vargr Seeker - I come up with MCr52.6, reduced to MCr47.34 for standard, and only 30 Td fuel

Td MCr
0200.0 0008.0 Unstreamlined Hull
0020.0 0001.0 Bridge
0001.0 0002.0 Computer Model/1
0010.0 0010.0 JD a=J1
0001.0 0004.0 MD a=M1
0004.0 0008.0 PP a=P1
0016.0 0002.0 Staterooms x4
0000.0 0000.0 Low Berths x0
0000.0 0000.0 Emergency Low Berths x0
0002.0 0000.4 Hardpoints x2, carrying: Turrets Sx2
0000.0 0001.0 Weapons: PLas x2
0000.0 0000.0 Craft:
0030.0 0016.0 Small Craft Ship's Boat x1
0086.0 0000.0 Cargo
0200.0 047.34 Totals

I can get closer to the book by switching to beams and doubling the SDD (to 20%

The trader comes out to MCr66.69:
Td MCr
0200.0 0020.0 Non-StandardUnstreamlined Hull StdClassDiscount
0020.0 0001.0 Bridge
0001.0 0004.0 Computer Model/1bis
0015.0 0020.0 JD b=J2
0003.0 0008.0 MD b=M2
0007.0 0016.0 PP b=P2
0020.0 0002.5 Staterooms x5
0000.0 0000.0 Low Berths x0
0000.0 0000.0 Emergency Low Berths x0
0002.0 0000.4 Hardpoints x2, carrying: Turrets Sx2
0000.0 0002.0 Weapons: BLas x2
0000.0 0000.0 Craft:
0000.0 0000.0 Small Craft
0072.0 0000.0 Cargo
0200.0 0066.69 Totals

Note: both trim gunners from required crew...