CT space station defense
- Thread starter parmasson
- Start date
No, but I do include them. And a swarm of pulse laser armed SDBs or fighters can be quite effective against capital ships. Of course, this goes for nuclear missiles as well.
Regards,
Tobias </font>[/QUOTE]Wow! Tobias, weren't you the guy I was going back and forth with about a big ship universe? I thought you argued that escorts couldn't even scratch the paint of a ship-of-the-line?
Anyway, if anyone is relying on their space station to defend itself, they deserve what Tarkin and Palpatine got. Without a mobile defense force, a space station is nothing more than a big, stationary target for any kind of projectile or energy weapon.
No, but I do include them. And a swarm of pulse laser armed SDBs or fighters can be quite effective against capital ships. Of course, this goes for nuclear missiles as well.
Regards,
Tobias </font>[/QUOTE]Wow! Tobias, weren't you the guy I was going back and forth with about a big ship universe? I thought you argued that escorts couldn't even scratch the paint of a ship-of-the-line?
Anyway, if anyone is relying on their space station to defend itself, they deserve what Tarkin and Palpatine got. Without a mobile defense force, a space station is nothing more than a big, stationary target for any kind of projectile or energy weapon.
"They can be effective" =/= "They are the only thing you'll ever need".
I, or any other big ship proponent, never argued that there should be only big ships, in contrast to those Book3 nostalgiacs who would like ships to be limited to 5000 tons or who draw false analogies to aircraft to assume that fighters should rein supreme.
The size slot at which SDBs are useful (on second thought, fighters still aren't very much, because of their low survivability) is at about 200-500 tons. Smaller, and they can be too easily killed. Larger and they become cost-ineffective. Of course, starships at this scale are not viable because they cost far too much.
These SDBs still cannot kill any well-armored capital ship - only spinal meson guns can do this. But they can scratch the weapons off the hull.
Regards,
Tobias
"They can be effective" =/= "They are the only thing you'll ever need".
I, or any other big ship proponent, never argued that there should be only big ships, in contrast to those Book3 nostalgiacs who would like ships to be limited to 5000 tons or who draw false analogies to aircraft to assume that fighters should rein supreme.
The size slot at which SDBs are useful (on second thought, fighters still aren't very much, because of their low survivability) is at about 200-500 tons. Smaller, and they can be too easily killed. Larger and they become cost-ineffective. Of course, starships at this scale are not viable because they cost far too much.
These SDBs still cannot kill any well-armored capital ship - only spinal meson guns can do this. But they can scratch the weapons off the hull.
Regards,
Tobias
I think Tobias' position is what pulls at the back of my mind when I think about allowing small craft to have very high (over 6G) accelerations. Anything to give them more survivability.
But then, if 6G can't make them survivable at long range in space, I don't suppose 18G will make them any more survivable...
This discussion thread could be generally useful for seeing how Traveller referees think about spacecraft capabilities by size and function...
But then, if 6G can't make them survivable at long range in space, I don't suppose 18G will make them any more survivable...
This discussion thread could be generally useful for seeing how Traveller referees think about spacecraft capabilities by size and function...
I think Tobias' position is what pulls at the back of my mind when I think about allowing small craft to have very high (over 6G) accelerations. Anything to give them more survivability.
But then, if 6G can't make them survivable at long range in space, I don't suppose 18G will make them any more survivable...
This discussion thread could be generally useful for seeing how Traveller referees think about spacecraft capabilities by size and function...
But then, if 6G can't make them survivable at long range in space, I don't suppose 18G will make them any more survivable...
This discussion thread could be generally useful for seeing how Traveller referees think about spacecraft capabilities by size and function...
robject,
The survivability issue is purely a High Guard technicality. Don't let it influence you too much, for rules systems other than HG/MT it probably isn't important.
The issue is that a small craft (size 0) or a ship from 100-199 tons (size 1) will always be critted by a factor-9 battery no matter how much armor they carry (factor-9 lasers and missiles will be the primary cap ship secondary armament at TL 13+.)
A ship from 200 tons onward (size 2+) and armor 14-15 can only be destroyed or critically damaged by a spinal mount, though as I wrote, you can destroy their weapons and fuel tanks.
Technically, you could get them with meson gun bays, but these are mostly useless against any wedge-shaped targets with decent agility, thanks to their pathetic to-hit and to-penetrate values. Besides, I know of no ship packing meson gun bays (they draw huge amounts of energy and are useless against almost all adversaries.)
Regards,
Tobias
The survivability issue is purely a High Guard technicality. Don't let it influence you too much, for rules systems other than HG/MT it probably isn't important.
The issue is that a small craft (size 0) or a ship from 100-199 tons (size 1) will always be critted by a factor-9 battery no matter how much armor they carry (factor-9 lasers and missiles will be the primary cap ship secondary armament at TL 13+.)
A ship from 200 tons onward (size 2+) and armor 14-15 can only be destroyed or critically damaged by a spinal mount, though as I wrote, you can destroy their weapons and fuel tanks.
Technically, you could get them with meson gun bays, but these are mostly useless against any wedge-shaped targets with decent agility, thanks to their pathetic to-hit and to-penetrate values. Besides, I know of no ship packing meson gun bays (they draw huge amounts of energy and are useless against almost all adversaries.)
Regards,
Tobias
robject,
The survivability issue is purely a High Guard technicality. Don't let it influence you too much, for rules systems other than HG/MT it probably isn't important.
The issue is that a small craft (size 0) or a ship from 100-199 tons (size 1) will always be critted by a factor-9 battery no matter how much armor they carry (factor-9 lasers and missiles will be the primary cap ship secondary armament at TL 13+.)
A ship from 200 tons onward (size 2+) and armor 14-15 can only be destroyed or critically damaged by a spinal mount, though as I wrote, you can destroy their weapons and fuel tanks.
Technically, you could get them with meson gun bays, but these are mostly useless against any wedge-shaped targets with decent agility, thanks to their pathetic to-hit and to-penetrate values. Besides, I know of no ship packing meson gun bays (they draw huge amounts of energy and are useless against almost all adversaries.)
Regards,
Tobias
The survivability issue is purely a High Guard technicality. Don't let it influence you too much, for rules systems other than HG/MT it probably isn't important.
The issue is that a small craft (size 0) or a ship from 100-199 tons (size 1) will always be critted by a factor-9 battery no matter how much armor they carry (factor-9 lasers and missiles will be the primary cap ship secondary armament at TL 13+.)
A ship from 200 tons onward (size 2+) and armor 14-15 can only be destroyed or critically damaged by a spinal mount, though as I wrote, you can destroy their weapons and fuel tanks.
Technically, you could get them with meson gun bays, but these are mostly useless against any wedge-shaped targets with decent agility, thanks to their pathetic to-hit and to-penetrate values. Besides, I know of no ship packing meson gun bays (they draw huge amounts of energy and are useless against almost all adversaries.)
Regards,
Tobias
mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
The Skimkish class Light Carrier has four 50t meson bays while the Antiama class Fleet Carrier has one 100t meson bay - I've no idea why either 
Both are in S9.
About the only use for meson bays I can think of is to kill civilian merchants quickly during commerce raiding operations.
Even then you'd be better off with a model E meson gun.
Both are in S9.
About the only use for meson bays I can think of is to kill civilian merchants quickly during commerce raiding operations.
Even then you'd be better off with a model E meson gun.
mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
The Skimkish class Light Carrier has four 50t meson bays while the Antiama class Fleet Carrier has one 100t meson bay - I've no idea why either
Both are in S9.
About the only use for meson bays I can think of is to kill civilian merchants quickly during commerce raiding operations.
Even then you'd be better off with a model E meson gun.
Both are in S9.
About the only use for meson bays I can think of is to kill civilian merchants quickly during commerce raiding operations.
Even then you'd be better off with a model E meson gun.
I was just rattling your cage.
But back to space stations: you really have to decide what the purpose of the station is. If it's commerce, then the hard points would be used for airlocks and moorings; if it's a battle station, then the hardpoints would be weapon emplacements. Orbital habitats and agro-stations wouldn't need weapons any more than a condo unit or greenhouse would.
In addition, a commercial enterprise is not going to waste a lot of valuable space on armor and missile reloads; if they can't pressure the locals to provide protection, they will contract a mercenary group (read: rent-a-cop) and write it off.
I was just rattling your cage.
But back to space stations: you really have to decide what the purpose of the station is. If it's commerce, then the hard points would be used for airlocks and moorings; if it's a battle station, then the hardpoints would be weapon emplacements. Orbital habitats and agro-stations wouldn't need weapons any more than a condo unit or greenhouse would.
In addition, a commercial enterprise is not going to waste a lot of valuable space on armor and missile reloads; if they can't pressure the locals to provide protection, they will contract a mercenary group (read: rent-a-cop) and write it off.
