CT starship range band combat

[Supplement Four]

Originally posted by Black Globe Generator:
It's about turning inside an opponent who's overcooked his approach vector, and the opponent using atmospheric braking to scrub velocity and come around for another pass.

Of course, with the three basic "ranges" in Book 2 combat (+0DM Range, -2DM Range, and -5DM Range), this isn't that important unless you're next to one of the range changes...scrubbing velocity to change from the -5DM to the -2DM.

 

[Supplement Four]

Originally posted by Black Globe Generator:
It's about turning inside an opponent who's overcooked his approach vector, and the opponent using atmospheric braking to scrub velocity and come around for another pass.

Of course, with the three basic "ranges" in Book 2 combat (+0DM Range, -2DM Range, and -5DM Range), this isn't that important unless you're next to one of the range changes...scrubbing velocity to change from the -5DM to the -2DM.

 

[sithknight]

Whilst I admire and respect the grognards skill (I love watching minis gamers - they are some intense dudes), its not for me. Just as I despised the GURPS vehicle construction and combat rules (which they seem to be fixing now, thank god, for 4th edition), I really want to focus on story, not on perfect plotting.

That being said, the above sounds great! Thanks for the reply...

Looks like I won't be using D6 System for the convention games I plan to run...good old CT will do it, baby.

I'd also relish seeing a true Book 2 combat on a large floor (such as a basketball court) with planet and asteroid templates, and people moving their ships and plotting vectors...wow!

 

[sithknight]

Whilst I admire and respect the grognards skill (I love watching minis gamers - they are some intense dudes), its not for me. Just as I despised the GURPS vehicle construction and combat rules (which they seem to be fixing now, thank god, for 4th edition), I really want to focus on story, not on perfect plotting.

That being said, the above sounds great! Thanks for the reply...

Looks like I won't be using D6 System for the convention games I plan to run...good old CT will do it, baby.

I'd also relish seeing a true Book 2 combat on a large floor (such as a basketball court) with planet and asteroid templates, and people moving their ships and plotting vectors...wow!

 

[Berg]

Originally posted by sithknight:
I'd also relish seeing a true Book 2 combat on a large floor (such as a basketball court) with planet and asteroid templates, and people moving their ships and plotting vectors...wow!

And watch from the bleachers... Go! Type-S Go!

 

[Berg]

Originally posted by sithknight:
I'd also relish seeing a true Book 2 combat on a large floor (such as a basketball court) with planet and asteroid templates, and people moving their ships and plotting vectors...wow!

And watch from the bleachers... Go! Type-S Go!

 

[Black Globe Generator]

Originally posted by WJP:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Black Globe Generator:
It's about turning inside an opponent who's overcooked his approach vector, and the opponent using atmospheric braking to scrub velocity and come around for another pass.

Of course, with the three basic "ranges" in Book 2 combat (+0DM Range, -2DM Range, and -5DM Range), this isn't that important unless you're next to one of the range changes...scrubbing velocity to change from the -5DM to the -2DM. </font>[/QUOTE]Yes, but with minis and vector movement, it's more than just whether or not your can open up the range to more than 2500mm, but how you do it - it's a test of the player's actual skill in maneuvering the ship.

 

[Black Globe Generator]

Originally posted by WJP:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Black Globe Generator:
It's about turning inside an opponent who's overcooked his approach vector, and the opponent using atmospheric braking to scrub velocity and come around for another pass.

Of course, with the three basic "ranges" in Book 2 combat (+0DM Range, -2DM Range, and -5DM Range), this isn't that important unless you're next to one of the range changes...scrubbing velocity to change from the -5DM to the -2DM. </font>[/QUOTE]Yes, but with minis and vector movement, it's more than just whether or not your can open up the range to more than 2500mm, but how you do it - it's a test of the player's actual skill in maneuvering the ship.

 

[Supplement Four]

Originally posted by Black Globe Generator:
Yes, but with minis and vector movement, it's more than just whether or not your can open up the range to more than 2500mm, but how you do it - it's a test of the player's actual skill in maneuvering the ship.

Just curious, BGG ... how is that different from doing the same thing on a hex board?

And, if we're talking about the space inside one of the Book 2 ranges, then what has maneuving got to do with it at all?

I mean, if your target is at 100mm away or 1900mm away, what difference does it make what maneuver you make? You're still hitting at 8+.

The only difference I can see is for missiles. You've got to "plan" those, but there's the same type of planning required whether you're running missiles in vector movement or a hex board.

I guess I just don't see the difference between Range Band hexes and mini mm vector movement. With Range Bands, you're just dealing with a bigger base "unit", that's all.

If you wanted to, you could make the hexes on a hex board smaller -- say something like 2500 km (25 mm for the minis).

Then, you're pretty much running minis and vector movement (and moving the furniture ) just like you would if you used string and a compass for the minis.

But, unless you're trying to increase range past 250,000 km, to get the -2DM defense, or close range to avoid a penalty, I don't see why plotting movement is really necessary.

I mean, I plot it. I like to show my players relative postion. But, the net effect is the same whether I plot movement on a hex board or whether I keep track of Range Bands on a piece of lined paper.

It's the actual distance between two combatants that's important - not their relative positions.

If I'm "not getting" something about the vector movement system, then please, point it out.

 

[Supplement Four]

Originally posted by Black Globe Generator:
Yes, but with minis and vector movement, it's more than just whether or not your can open up the range to more than 2500mm, but how you do it - it's a test of the player's actual skill in maneuvering the ship.

Just curious, BGG ... how is that different from doing the same thing on a hex board?

And, if we're talking about the space inside one of the Book 2 ranges, then what has maneuving got to do with it at all?

I mean, if your target is at 100mm away or 1900mm away, what difference does it make what maneuver you make? You're still hitting at 8+.

The only difference I can see is for missiles. You've got to "plan" those, but there's the same type of planning required whether you're running missiles in vector movement or a hex board.

I guess I just don't see the difference between Range Band hexes and mini mm vector movement. With Range Bands, you're just dealing with a bigger base "unit", that's all.

If you wanted to, you could make the hexes on a hex board smaller -- say something like 2500 km (25 mm for the minis).

Then, you're pretty much running minis and vector movement (and moving the furniture ) just like you would if you used string and a compass for the minis.

But, unless you're trying to increase range past 250,000 km, to get the -2DM defense, or close range to avoid a penalty, I don't see why plotting movement is really necessary.

I mean, I plot it. I like to show my players relative postion. But, the net effect is the same whether I plot movement on a hex board or whether I keep track of Range Bands on a piece of lined paper.

It's the actual distance between two combatants that's important - not their relative positions.

If I'm "not getting" something about the vector movement system, then please, point it out.

 

[Black Globe Generator]

Originally posted by WJP:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Black Globe Generator:
Yes, but with minis and vector movement, it's more than just whether or not your can open up the range to more than 2500mm, but how you do it - it's a test of the player's actual skill in maneuvering the ship.

Just curious, BGG ... how is that different from doing the same thing on a hex board?</font>[/QUOTE]It's much more nuanced - a handful of degrees or mm of vector here or there can be the difference between success and failure. It's also more difficult to do well, more challenging to master than simply "counting boxes."

Originally posted by WJP:
And, if we're talking about the space inside one of the Book 2 ranges, then what has maneuving got to do with it at all?

I mean, if your target is at 100mm away or 1900mm away, what difference does it make what maneuver you make? You're still hitting at 8+.

You're seeing this only in terms of the end result, not the process of getting there. How you get into range (or out of range) is as important as the die roll modifier that results.

Like I said, unless you have experience with minis, you won't get it. It's like trying to teach someone how to throw a slider without picking up a baseball.

 

[Black Globe Generator]

Originally posted by WJP:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Black Globe Generator:
Yes, but with minis and vector movement, it's more than just whether or not your can open up the range to more than 2500mm, but how you do it - it's a test of the player's actual skill in maneuvering the ship.

Just curious, BGG ... how is that different from doing the same thing on a hex board?</font>[/QUOTE]It's much more nuanced - a handful of degrees or mm of vector here or there can be the difference between success and failure. It's also more difficult to do well, more challenging to master than simply "counting boxes."

Originally posted by WJP:
And, if we're talking about the space inside one of the Book 2 ranges, then what has maneuving got to do with it at all?

I mean, if your target is at 100mm away or 1900mm away, what difference does it make what maneuver you make? You're still hitting at 8+.

You're seeing this only in terms of the end result, not the process of getting there. How you get into range (or out of range) is as important as the die roll modifier that results.

Like I said, unless you have experience with minis, you won't get it. It's like trying to teach someone how to throw a slider without picking up a baseball.

 

[Supplement Four]

Originally posted by Black Globe Generator:
It's also more difficult to do well, more challenging to master than simply "counting boxes."

Spoken like a true connoisseur ... a true fan of minis as an art.

I can definitely respect that.

Thanks for the reply.

 

[Supplement Four]

Originally posted by Black Globe Generator:
It's also more difficult to do well, more challenging to master than simply "counting boxes."

Spoken like a true connoisseur ... a true fan of minis as an art.

I can definitely respect that.

Thanks for the reply.

 

[jrients]

If I use the lined paper approach with 6g missiles, won't I get a lot of 6g vessels outracing the missiles? Is that a bug or a feature?

 

[jrients]

If I use the lined paper approach with 6g missiles, won't I get a lot of 6g vessels outracing the missiles? Is that a bug or a feature?

 

[mike wightman]

It's a feature - the same thing can happen with a fast ship and the full blown vector movement system.

 

[mike wightman]

It's a feature - the same thing can happen with a fast ship and the full blown vector movement system.

 

[Plankowner]

The same thing can also happen today in submarine warfare. If your opponent fires a torpedo at you and they were pretty far away, you MIGHT be able outrun it long enough for it's fuel to be expended. The same tactic would be very doable in Traveller, perhaps moreso since the 6G ship would be just as "fast" as the missile. WHEN you fire your missiles, and the relative distance and velocity to the opponent is VERY important.

 

[Plankowner]

The same thing can also happen today in submarine warfare. If your opponent fires a torpedo at you and they were pretty far away, you MIGHT be able outrun it long enough for it's fuel to be expended. The same tactic would be very doable in Traveller, perhaps moreso since the 6G ship would be just as "fast" as the missile. WHEN you fire your missiles, and the relative distance and velocity to the opponent is VERY important.