Current State of Traveller Software?
- Thread starter Hecateus
- Start date
FlightCommanderSolitude
SOC-13
What kind of software tools are you looking for, and for which version of Traveller? Any specific platform in mind?
RainOfSteel
SOC-14 1K
Well, for Sector Generation and viewing, I've checked out Heaven & Earth and Galactic.
YMMV in using them, but I prefer Galactic so far.
YMMV in using them, but I prefer Galactic so far.
mad13142000
SOC-13
I LOVE Galactic...Yeah, it's a DOS program, but it is also the ONLY program on my computer not to crash under windows, so it evens out...
I like its functionality - you can generate or share sectors, add system and world maps as well as unlimited amounts of written support material to any world. Yeah, I add some stuff generated by H&E, but as a far trader, I like the scalable universe that Galactic provides....
-MADDog
I like its functionality - you can generate or share sectors, add system and world maps as well as unlimited amounts of written support material to any world. Yeah, I add some stuff generated by H&E, but as a far trader, I like the scalable universe that Galactic provides....
-MADDog
Just for info - Profantacy is working on a CC2 addon that will sector generation with direct output to CC2. The with support for various Traveller generation systems and GURPS Space, so both 2d and 3d generators being supported. Also IIRC it will be able to import both .sec and .gal files. And of course other unanounced goodies depending on what the programmer comes up with. The last I heard to be releaced sometime this summer. 
My personal preference for software would be PC/NPC character, and vehicle creation management software...as these are the most rule heavy elements which seem to slow important things (rolelaying) down. (some of the combat stuff would also apply) The star system programs are neat though.
RainOfSteel
SOC-14 1K
I've tried both Visio and CC2, and honestly, I really don't like either one.
Visio's problems are subtle (little things like glue-points disappearing when you group objects, and an object model for VBA that I really didn't like). I still use it for charts and data models, though, it's great for that. Hmmm, deckplans, I'll have to give them a try on it.
CC2. Wow, I don't even know where to get started. My personal opinion is that is sucks rocks. It's a piece of cad-cam software originally written in assembly language for the dos environment for the use of drafting professionals. For that purpose, it is undoubtedly wonderful. The port to windows, however, is in massive violation of general human inteface design standards. I downloaded the demo years ago (the first time) to see if I it was worth buying. It was a full-feature no-save demo. The first thing I tried to do was create an ocean. I wasted two hours trying to figure out where the fill tool was, and in the end, nothing I could do worked; they stress a complete read of their manual and an adoption of "their" way of doing things (a 1980s drafting professional's viewpoint), however, the demo does not come with the manual . . . duh! An email to their customer service produced an interesting answer. Unlike all other cad-cam I'd come across, this program didn't have a fill tool. I couldn't make heads or tails of their extremely short description on how to change the color of an entire layer to blue, but I can clearly remember that it didn't work. I gave up and tried to draw a coastline. Whoa there, over-ambitious map-boy! CC2 had no facility for drawing free-hand lines. Wonderful. Another email to customer service produced the handy suggestion that I use the spline and bezier tools. ???? Really? I can't ever recall doing a spline or a bezier in all my years of drawing fantasy world maps, and all my attempts to draw anything using those tools produced only weird lines that went off in apparently random directions that had nothing to do with the coastline I so desperately wanted to draw. Then, I tried just randomly splating terrain symbols on a blank document. They were quite pretty. All I had to do was click an terrain symbol on a scrollable bar to one side, and then click away. I created several moutain chains, and then moved my mouse over to a forest symbol, clicked it, and then tried to add some forests to the map (a map without a coastline, by the way). It started adding more mountains. No amount of attempting to switch to another terrain type worked. It turned out, after much experimentation and reading of the meager help files, that you have to right-click the mouse to produce a dialog box, and click a button in order to stop using a terrain symbol, and be given the opportunity to select another terrain symbol. This was, to say the least . . . ok, I'll stop, I won't say it. Severely unimpressed, I uninstalled CC2 and didn't think about it again until . . .
Years later, I saw that CC2 v6 now had the ability to "draw free-hand lines". With great trepidation, I downloaded the modern demo (a few months ago). It's method of drawing a free-hand line turned out to be the old "connect the dots method", where the software recorded key points along the free hand path. Although, as you actually drew the line, it looked ok, but as soon as you finished, CC2 removed the precision of the line I'd just drawn and replaced it with a series of striaght lines between the dots it had recorded. Since I make errors all the time as I draw coastlines, or just decide to make changes on a whim, I frequently stop and go back and erase those parts in order to change them around to something else. This was effectively impossible in CC2. I spent 30 minutes fruitless trying to figure out how to alter, in-place, existing lines (ok, you could bring up a dialog box with a list of coordinate points and alter them, or spend time trying to grab points one at a time, which turned out to be difficult to do; but both were extremely impractical). Worse, when starting again on an interrupted coastline, there was no facility to instruct CC2 I was continuing on; no, CC2 insisted on starting a new connect-the-dots object. Sigh. I also downloaded their (then on the home page of the CC2 site) handy icosohedral map (Traveller-Style). I loaded it up, and tried to do some more planetary coastline work. It didn't work. I sent an email off to customer service asking how anyone could be expected to draw a coastline (oh, I hadn't bothered to try and color an ocean layer, my previous attempt still causes traumatic flashbacks). They responded that I should use the fractal tool. I tried it out, and indeed, it was able to do a very cool "texturing/squiggling" of the coastline CC2 had already made a disaster of. But the trouble is, it wasn't the coastline I wanted. I tried to do some more things, but honestly, couldn't get anywhere.
CC2 is based on software and drawing paradigms for drafting/architectural professionals, not creative gamers who want to make the simple leap from drawing on paper to drawing on their computer (namely me) with computer assists to remove the drudgery of many tasks (like scaling maps, storing notes, providing easy GM/PC versions, and handling text positioning so that putting down names isn't such a problem). These functions are supposedly in CC2, but since I was never even able to complete a simple map, none of that was usable.
Visio's problems are subtle (little things like glue-points disappearing when you group objects, and an object model for VBA that I really didn't like). I still use it for charts and data models, though, it's great for that. Hmmm, deckplans, I'll have to give them a try on it.
CC2. Wow, I don't even know where to get started. My personal opinion is that is sucks rocks. It's a piece of cad-cam software originally written in assembly language for the dos environment for the use of drafting professionals. For that purpose, it is undoubtedly wonderful. The port to windows, however, is in massive violation of general human inteface design standards. I downloaded the demo years ago (the first time) to see if I it was worth buying. It was a full-feature no-save demo. The first thing I tried to do was create an ocean. I wasted two hours trying to figure out where the fill tool was, and in the end, nothing I could do worked; they stress a complete read of their manual and an adoption of "their" way of doing things (a 1980s drafting professional's viewpoint), however, the demo does not come with the manual . . . duh! An email to their customer service produced an interesting answer. Unlike all other cad-cam I'd come across, this program didn't have a fill tool. I couldn't make heads or tails of their extremely short description on how to change the color of an entire layer to blue, but I can clearly remember that it didn't work. I gave up and tried to draw a coastline. Whoa there, over-ambitious map-boy! CC2 had no facility for drawing free-hand lines. Wonderful. Another email to customer service produced the handy suggestion that I use the spline and bezier tools. ???? Really? I can't ever recall doing a spline or a bezier in all my years of drawing fantasy world maps, and all my attempts to draw anything using those tools produced only weird lines that went off in apparently random directions that had nothing to do with the coastline I so desperately wanted to draw. Then, I tried just randomly splating terrain symbols on a blank document. They were quite pretty. All I had to do was click an terrain symbol on a scrollable bar to one side, and then click away. I created several moutain chains, and then moved my mouse over to a forest symbol, clicked it, and then tried to add some forests to the map (a map without a coastline, by the way). It started adding more mountains. No amount of attempting to switch to another terrain type worked. It turned out, after much experimentation and reading of the meager help files, that you have to right-click the mouse to produce a dialog box, and click a button in order to stop using a terrain symbol, and be given the opportunity to select another terrain symbol. This was, to say the least . . . ok, I'll stop, I won't say it. Severely unimpressed, I uninstalled CC2 and didn't think about it again until . . .
Years later, I saw that CC2 v6 now had the ability to "draw free-hand lines". With great trepidation, I downloaded the modern demo (a few months ago). It's method of drawing a free-hand line turned out to be the old "connect the dots method", where the software recorded key points along the free hand path. Although, as you actually drew the line, it looked ok, but as soon as you finished, CC2 removed the precision of the line I'd just drawn and replaced it with a series of striaght lines between the dots it had recorded. Since I make errors all the time as I draw coastlines, or just decide to make changes on a whim, I frequently stop and go back and erase those parts in order to change them around to something else. This was effectively impossible in CC2. I spent 30 minutes fruitless trying to figure out how to alter, in-place, existing lines (ok, you could bring up a dialog box with a list of coordinate points and alter them, or spend time trying to grab points one at a time, which turned out to be difficult to do; but both were extremely impractical). Worse, when starting again on an interrupted coastline, there was no facility to instruct CC2 I was continuing on; no, CC2 insisted on starting a new connect-the-dots object. Sigh. I also downloaded their (then on the home page of the CC2 site) handy icosohedral map (Traveller-Style). I loaded it up, and tried to do some more planetary coastline work. It didn't work. I sent an email off to customer service asking how anyone could be expected to draw a coastline (oh, I hadn't bothered to try and color an ocean layer, my previous attempt still causes traumatic flashbacks). They responded that I should use the fractal tool. I tried it out, and indeed, it was able to do a very cool "texturing/squiggling" of the coastline CC2 had already made a disaster of. But the trouble is, it wasn't the coastline I wanted. I tried to do some more things, but honestly, couldn't get anywhere.
CC2 is based on software and drawing paradigms for drafting/architectural professionals, not creative gamers who want to make the simple leap from drawing on paper to drawing on their computer (namely me) with computer assists to remove the drudgery of many tasks (like scaling maps, storing notes, providing easy GM/PC versions, and handling text positioning so that putting down names isn't such a problem). These functions are supposedly in CC2, but since I was never even able to complete a simple map, none of that was usable.
mad13142000
SOC-13
I've seen the results from CC2...It LOOKS awesome, but I can't EVER justify spending $83 for a program that I can get around using with a set of crayons...
-MADDog
-MADDog
AutoRealm is more usable than CC2 but lacks some "nearly basic" features... it`s OpenSource though so costs nothing
I think I'll use Visio for Deckplans, but certainly NOT for planetary maps (hehe... bought Fractal Terrains for that
As for City Maps, I think that AutoRealm can do the job nicely (already done the map of a small Starport for a game and came out nice...)
I think I'll use Visio for Deckplans, but certainly NOT for planetary maps (hehe... bought Fractal Terrains for that
As for City Maps, I think that AutoRealm can do the job nicely (already done the map of a small Starport for a game and came out nice...)
Keklas Rekobah
SOC-14 1K
I have Visio, but prefer MsPaint. This is mainly due to the portability of a BMP file, and the fact that I've used MsPaint in all its previous incarnations.
What I would like to know is why nobody has done any Free Software (http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.html) about Traveller yet.
Maybe I have a nice little project waiting for me...
Maybe I have a nice little project waiting for me...
(C) Marc Miller.
Unless he agrees, you can`t.
(At least, you can`t use the name
"Traveller" or other (C)righted names,
terms and the like)
Free Software licences à la GNU GPL
are tricky with copyrights...
Because the owner must agree to have
the basic proggy modified by anyone
without any restrictions, forever.
Unless he agrees, you can`t.
(At least, you can`t use the name
"Traveller" or other (C)righted names,
terms and the like)
Free Software licences à la GNU GPL
are tricky with copyrights...
Because the owner must agree to have
the basic proggy modified by anyone
without any restrictions, forever.
And I hope you have Legalese 6+...
BTW, the GPL limitation isn`t only if you want to make the source code available... If it`s GPL and you DISTRIBUTE it, you MUST give out the source also.
By distribution, I mean selling, giving, sharing etc...
If you make it for yourself or your own organization, without outsiders having a copy of the executable, you`re ok. The minute someone else has a copy legally (ie: you distributed it) you must have the code available for free.
There are other "lesser" free licenses out there. One may be what the original poster needs. but the GPL would be trouble for that particular proggy, unless it`s one of Marc`s whish to see that kind of thing happening.
Clumsy phrasing by me. But Free Software doesn't have to be licenced by the GPL. Other licences work as well.
But, what I really want basically, is a char gen program with source to run on some unix flavour. Preferable with options from all CT and modern Traveller rules.
I wish I had the energy to write it myself.
But, what I really want basically, is a char gen program with source to run on some unix flavour. Preferable with options from all CT and modern Traveller rules.
I wish I had the energy to write it myself.
I love some of the freelance applications floating around out there. But its funny they are fun to play with but when I come right down to it I enjoy actually doing it the old fashioned way. So needless to say they end up taking up memory on my comp but I really don't end up using them much. Call me crazy I won't be offended.
