Customs

[Blue Ghost]

Some more interesting views.

It might also depend on the duchy. Norris might let areas pass, same with Strepheron, but Margaret seems like a real stickler for policing her territory (Vargr incursions and all).

Officially it's one of those Your Traveller Universe May Vary deals, but in a hard realistic sense some systems, those directly under Imperial rule, would most likely have a set of protocols for keeping unwanted hardware away from population centers, as was mentioned.

In our Traveller Universe way back when the Starport was considered "neutral" territory of sorts. That is a merc group could come and land (and/or orbit) at a world, but couldn't leave the starport with any or all their hardware, law level depending.

Even here it depended on the starport. Some were rather paranoid about that sort of thing, where others were casual about it; i.e. letting heavily armed groups walk through the port facility. But then again that was based on the law level.

Typcially, again in our Traveller Universe, I established that Starport Security was pretty beefy, and no one in their right mind would mess with Imperial military guarding the port facility. It's one thing to take on one of the local despots, rescue the daughter of the Mega Corps CEO, loot the dictator's treasury for good measure before hightailing it back to the port in a shootout. It was another to try and take on several companies of heavily armed Imperial marines or Imperial army regiments (or like armed para-military security).

 

[Plankowner]

I don't know that it has been mentioned before, but DOES the Imperium have a Law Level? Sure there is the ban on Nukes, but realistically, would the Baron or Marquis of a Starport just let people walk around with FGMP-15s? I doubt it.

I figure the typical Starport would generally enforce a LL of 3-4. Pistols are OK, but automatic weapons are frowned upon. While it might not be Technically Illegal, the Imperial Marines would like to have a little talk to you.

I figured the starports had an Old West feel to them. Most people went armed with a pistol or melee weapon, but not the big stuff.

Sure you might see a mercenary company moving through the starport with their Gauss Rifles and HE Support Weapons, but you better believe the SPA knew about it before hand.

 

[boomslang]

Originally posted by Plankowner:
I don't know that it has been mentioned before, but DOES the Imperium have a Law Level? Sure there is the ban on Nukes, but realistically, would the Baron or Marquis of a Starport just let people walk around with FGMP-15s? I doubt it.

I figure the typical Starport would generally enforce a LL of 3-4. Pistols are OK, but automatic weapons are frowned upon. While it might not be Technically Illegal, the Imperial Marines would like to have a little talk to you.

Martin J. Dougherty touched on this in the recent Linkworlds supplement (available for free download around the site here somewhere); it assumes a basic Law Level of 3 throughout the starport. Aboard a highport in particular, this means firearms either shoot pistol rounds or are single-shot long arms that are clumsy in close quarters; that should cut down on hull breeches, for one thing.

Personal possession of heavier firepower is certainly not strictly prohibited; most of it originated in CT's Book 4: Mercenary so we can safely assume that mercenaries would have access to it. However, taking such "ironmongery" off-ship and into somebody else's jurisdiction would require permission (or active hostilities, as it were).

Typically, my PCs go around very lightly armed when amongst civilization ('The referee should adjust the size and armament of the attacking group to match that of the player characters" -- words to live by, folks...), but out in the wilderness, I go loaded for bear (cf. "The Chamax Plague", et alia).

 

[Icosahedron]

Originally posted by Plankowner:
I figured the starports had an Old West feel to them. Most people went armed with a pistol or melee weapon, but not the big stuff.

Sure you might see a mercenary company moving through the starport with their Gauss Rifles and HE Support Weapons, but you better believe the SPA knew about it before hand.

I agree. IMTU you could carry stuff that was not banned, but only as baggage in a sealed crate/case. One broken seal and the whole party is in the slammer pending investigation - forget catching your flight.

 

[Plankowner]

What about on your starship? What Law Level would YOU as a captain, impose on your passengers?

Personally, I used about LL9. Short Blades were OK, but no guns at all.

 

[Ptah]

Originally posted by Plankowner:
What about on your starship? What Law Level would YOU as a captain, impose on your passengers?

Personally, I used about LL9. Short Blades were OK, but no guns at all.

I'd make it all depend on you social standing. Below SOC A, no weapons, SOC A-C, small hand guns for you and your body guards, SOC D+ whatever you desire mi'lord.

 

[archhealer]

Don't most systems have at least a small defense fleet? I mean, if needed, most small vessels, even heavily armed merchant vessels, are fairly likely to behave with even a few small SDBs in the area... Esp. since non-jump ships can carry a lot more weaponry for their size.

 

[Black Globe Generator]

Originally posted by Archhealer:
Don't most systems have at least a small defense fleet?

Not necessarily - The Spinward Marches says that worlds with Pop 6+ and TL7+ have planetary navies.

thrash put together this detailed treatment, expanding on those guidelines using FFW and other canon sources to come up with a systm for determining the number of SDBs and jump-capable warships available to planetary navies.

Whether you go by TSM or the thrash notes, planetary navies are probably not all that common. Higher pop worlds with TL A+ are well-defended throughout the star system - lower pop, lower tech worlds may have system defenses only around the mainworld, or depend entirely on the Imperial Navy.

 

[Black Globe Generator]

Originally posted by Blue Ghost:
This has been bugging me for over 20 years now.

Wow! Feel good to finally get that off your chest?

Originally posted by Blue Ghost:
When jumping into a system, in YTU, do you use custom's inspections?

Yes.

Originally posted by Blue Ghost:
And if so is the ship in question (presumably the players' ship) given the once over before reaching orbit, in orbit, or after planetfall?

Yes.

That is, it can happen at any one of those points. I typically require the captain (or whoever handles the ship's paperwork) to make an Admin skill check against law level to handle the arrival forms correctly. If the ship is not encountered in space by a planetary navy or customs vessel, or if it is and no inspection occurs, then it happens at the starport.

To determine if an inspection occurs in space, I use the encounter reaction table: a favorable reaction is either a cursory check or a simple hail and greeting - a negative reaction is a more rigorous inspection or even a temporary impound.

Originally posted by Blue Ghost:
Do you, or have you ever, used customs?

Yes.

Originally posted by Blue Ghost:
What did the authorities do with all the military and paramility hardware stashed behind the girlie mags in the ship's locker?

Nothing - as long as it all stays in the locker while the ship is travelling through the system and the crew has the proper permits.

IMTU Imperial law permits merchants to be armed, including ship's weaponry and small arms and armor. Military hardware requires a mercenary license.

 

[Icosahedron]

Originally posted by Plankowner:
What about on your starship? What Law Level would YOU as a captain, impose on your passengers?

Personally, I used about LL9. Short Blades were OK, but no guns at all.

Total ban!
I'm not having potentially irate passengers running around MY ship brandishing hardware!
The crew get stun batons, tazers or similar non-lethal devices. That should be more than they need on a routine trip, but better hardware is carried in the locker for emergencies. If passengers want to transport weapons, they crate 'em up and book 'em in the hold.

IMTU the low law level is more often planetside of the starport.

 

[Icosahedron]

Originally posted by Black Globe Generator:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Archhealer:
Don't most systems have at least a small defense fleet?

Not necessarily - The Spinward Marches says that worlds with Pop 6+ and TL7+ have planetary navies.

thrash put together this detailed treatment, </font>[/QUOTE]I've not read the Thrash document yet, but I just archived it for later perusal - thanks.

I liked the system used by Rob Eaglestone here It's a simple and nebulous indication of Imperial presence, based on the economic worth of a system.

 

[far-trader]

Originally posted by Plankowner:
What about on your starship? What Law Level would YOU as a captain, impose on your passengers?

<Far-Trader stirs from his rest at the bar... >

Passengers? Awake and roaming about? Not on my ship! No need for a law level or weapons restrictions and confiscations if there's no potential hijackers to start with

OK, OK, so I might take the odd charter passenger but they pay and they don't get no weapons except in a locked container in the hold in vacuum. And no vac-suit either. And no "visits" to the bridge, or engineering or anywhere except the passenger deck. Period.

My crew? Loyal to a fault, and for good reason. No need to worry about what they need to carry to feel safe and ready to deal with any "uninvited visitors" and we always treat the authorities with the utmost respect and deference.

Stowaways get spaced if I don't have a low-berth to stick them in until I can sell them into slavery. Nobody steals from me and gets away with it if caught. Nobody.

<goes to finish his drink and finds it empty... >

<gets up and leaves muttering under breath... >

 

[mbrinkhues]

IMTU:

Passengers: All weapons are checked in with the quartermaster and kept under lock&key. Passengers don't need them during the trip. Even less in case of a pirat attack(1) because one stupid "hero" can mean the difference between an insurance case and a listing on Lloyds of Syleas "Overdue persumed lost" list.

Crew: Normally unarmed or equiped with tasers/pepper spray and a blackjack. Weapons are kept in a locker in case of boarding with Captain and XO having the keys.

Starports(Low): Basic law-level is quite low and in theorie anything non-military goes (Imperial Law Level). In reality most StarPort personal is recruited locally if possible so the reaction to carried weapons depend a lot on the world as well as where you are.

On a high law level world, you can expect security to hassel you for unconcealed weapons and shopowners/bars to deny you service(2). The locals expect you to trust security and carry something small well concealed if you absolutely have to.

On a low law level world NOT carrying can get you picked out as an "easy target". And quite a few locals might refuse to work with you since you are an "untrustworthy weakling" that depends on others to defend himself and his cargo.

Starports(High): Anything that can breach the hull is illegal to carry! NO exceptions! They will also frown on anything that ricochets easyly since there will be a lot of hard walls around for it to do so. You might have an easier time carrying a Halberd than a Gauss Pistol and bladed weapons will sure be prefered.


(1) IMTU pirats act like IRL ones from the age of Morgan: Show the "Jolly Roger" as a sign of "Surrender and your live will be spared" and generally taking cargo and valuabels rather than the ship

(2) From experience it takes about 10min for the police to arrive if a clean-shaven young man in black throusers, short-sleeved blue shirt and green barret with a Pistol on the hip walks around searching for "Wilhemsstrasse 1a" in Germany.

And people react funny if you walk into a 7-11 equivalent with a battle rifle on your back even IF they know that there's an exercise running and you are in uniform (as are the other three guys)

 

[Laryssa]

(1)You can only steal a ship if you got a crew to man it. Ships are generally more valuable than what's contained within, just look at thir prices, tens to hundreds of millions of credits! The cargo would have to be awfully valuable to be worth more than the ship, but still the Pirates might want to trade up. Oh, I know what they might steal, they might steal the Jump drive, the power plant, and perhaps the laser cannons and missiles. If the pirates can fit an extra jump drive in their hold, that would be work quite a bit.

(2) What if someone isn't clean shaven, has a long beard that drags on the floor and smells like garbage with a cloud of black flies buzzing around him constantly, and what if he's all covered in warts and puss and it looks like he hasn't taken a shower in his whole entire life, how lonmg would it take the police to show up then?

 

[mbrinkhues]

I don't know since German army regulations required regular showers and short hair and keeping yourself healthy.

But judging from the free running Greenies of Cologne: Very long! Very long!

 

[BetterThanLife]

Originally posted by Icosahedron:
I tend to base customs on Starport rating rather than population - Port E or X, no hassle.
I use a patrol boat and harbour pilot principle: most ships will be expected, thanks to a filed flight plan; unexpected visitors are required by law (stiff penalties) to declare themselves and await the patrol beyond combat range of the planet.

I just caught this thread.

I do have a question here though. How do you file a flight plan with the destination if the fastest way to communicate from the point of launch to the target destination is to carry it with you? Second even if you could file a flight plan ahead of time, how do you arrive on time when Jump mechanics specify 168 hours +/- 10%.

Nobody knows what is arriving before it does. And not even always then. To this day I am not sure if I want incoming jump events/hyper footprints that are visible or easily detectable. The LBB5 black globe rules seem to imply that Jump exit isn't, in and of itself, something sensors can detect.

Further Since you have no sensors before you "break out" of jump space you don't know what is in the system.

Therefore IMTU the following generally applies. (Granted when I Referee there is generally a war on and the campaign is generally set near a border.)

1. All ships entering a system are presumed hostile until identified otherwise.

2. Many commercial ships and all military ships go to general quarters (action stations, battle stations) right before jump emergence.

3. If a ship emerges from jump in close proximity to another ship, fairly rare but possible, the situation can be a bit tense. After all everyone "knows" Ethically challanged Merchants like swaning about at the 100D limit. (Easier to catch ships unawares and easier to escape if the Navy comes calling.) Everyone also "knows" that the Evil Solomani, (Zhodani, Vargr Corsairs, Reavers, favorite villan of the week) are planning on commerce raiding, planetary raids, or downright invasion, of this system at any time.

4. The Imperial Navy does perform routine boarding operations as do Customs inspectors from the SPA. This is generally more for health and safety purposes than to run detailed manifest checks. However certain items, (aside from the obvious Nukes and Bioweapons) will draw their attention.

5. Weapons running is frowned upon. (Hey there is a war on. (As is drug running.)

6. Even though planetary jurisdiction stops at the 10D limit, Imperial forces and especially the SPA tend to enforce local customs ordinances because they do have to live there, and they want to make sure they don't give the locals an excuse to interfere with the traffic between the surface and the 10D limit.

7. IMTU armor tends to get restricted along with weapons. In most cases you can get away with Jack or Diplo, but anything much heavier tends to draw extra attention. (Local conditions and law level of course causes variations.)

8. Boarding actions, for customs inspections are handled by small craft. With either the parent craft or a pair of fighters riding shotgun. Patrol craft that are designed for this type of operation carry a small craft for such purposes. In the case of a non-purpose built craft the inspecting ship, without a small craft will generally handle boarding via EVA. Note that the designation Small Craft is relative. It could be carried out by an AHL's fuel shuttle for example. However it is generally not a Jump capable craft. (After all they don't want you taking over their craft and escaping with it.)

9. Local governments do perform spot check customs inspections between the 10D limit and the surface. However since the cargo might not be destined for the local world, the locals are not supposed to be allowed to confiscate contraband but are allowed to accompany the ship to the Starport and ensure that said contraband does not get out of the starport. YMMV depending on the current relations between the SPA and the Local government. The SPA can not legally stop this from happening but relations between the SPA and the local government will determine the amount of spot checking being done and whether what is supposed to happen is what actually happens.

 

[Laryssa]

Originally posted by Michael Brinkhues:
I don't know since German army regulations required regular showers and short hair and keeping yourself healthy.

But judging from the free running Greenies of Cologne: Very long! Very long!

I just had a case of the sillies for that second paragraph.

I was wondering why you were describing the way the man looked, if he has a gun, I don't think it would make a difference at all, how the police would react.

 

[mbrinkhues]

Originally posted by Laryssa:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Michael Brinkhues:
I don't know since German army regulations required regular showers and short hair and keeping yourself healthy.

But judging from the free running Greenies of Cologne: Very long! Very long!

I just had a case of the sillies for that second paragraph.

I was wondering why you were describing the way the man looked, if he has a gun, I don't think it would make a difference at all, how the police would react. </font>[/QUOTE]Actually I was running around in german army summer uniform in a quarter that had a german army office (not a base) and still someone called the police. Actually the police only send one car since they guessed who I was and pointed me to the right building (Street had been re-named two years ago, building was unmarked). I assume they would have send more if the above person ran around (maybe a SWAT equivalent since both RAF where still around(1))

Since germany is a nice example of a high law level world when it comes to weapons, it shows that people on such worlds react negatively to weapons even if the carrier has a low thread rating by looking well groomed and "almost police" (The Uniform style sans jacket and headgear is similar in dress uniform)

I'd assume a starport on a High Law world would see similar reactions. Otoh from some descriptions people in some parts of the US seem to carry guns quite regularly (often concealed) without the people reacting to it. Since those parts of the US are "low law level" (Anything but military, sometimes even military, legal) the behaviour of shop owners there might be a nice picture of how people behave on such worlds.

(1) RAF - Red Army Faction, the german wanneby terrorist organisation

 

[Laryssa]

RAF - Red Army Faction - Royal Air Force Some acronyms have double meanings. When someone says RAF, I think of the British Air Force.

You should see my Frontier campaign, that I'm running. Most of the worlds have a population rating of 7 or less, in the America Sector at least. All of the worlds can be considered frontier worlds, even the capital world has a population of only one million people, they live in the capital city in a small corner of that world and the rest is wilderness. On worlds such as this, people have to be allowed to keep firearms, if one is in the woods and is attacked by a wild animal or brigands, one can't yell "help police!" and expect to get an answer. Consequently many people own military grade weapons. One of the most important things for frontier societies is that the majority respect the rule of law in society. The government just sends an army or a navy after those few outlaws that don't. Generally the military is the biggest force around in this sector, and their role is mostly to fight crime out in the frontier where it becomes too egregarious. Their are alot of private armies around and some small scale wars and feuds too, the Army and the navy is mostly concerned with the larger stuff, they don't have enough men and resources to chase around the small stuff, space is too vast and the people are two few, their are many places outlaws can lurk.

 

[Lochlaber]

I do have a question here though. How do you file a flight plan with the destination if the fastest way to communicate from the point of launch to the target destination is to carry it with you? Second even if you could file a flight plan ahead of time, how do you arrive on time when Jump mechanics specify 168 hours +/- 10%.

You don't file flight plans for that reason. Only intra-system flights would be scheduled so tightly or need to be. Now if you are a regular visitor, you might schedule with a factor or somebody on planet but no more.


Therefore IMTU the following generally applies. (Granted when I Referee there is generally a war on and the campaign is generally set near a border.)

1. All ships entering a system are presumed hostile until identified otherwise.

Reasonable

2. Many commercial ships and all military ships go to general quarters (action stations, battle stations) right before jump emergence.

IMTU also

3. If a ship emerges from jump in close proximity to another ship, fairly rare but possible, the situation can be a bit tense. After all everyone "knows" Ethically challanged Merchants like swaning about at the 100D limit. (Easier to catch ships unawares and easier to escape if the Navy comes calling.) Everyone also "knows" that the Evil Solomani, (Zhodani, Vargr Corsairs, Reavers, favorite villan of the week) are planning on commerce raiding, planetary raids, or downright invasion, of this system at any time.

That is what the random table is for.

4. The Imperial Navy does perform routine boarding operations as do Customs inspectors from the SPA. This is generally more for health and safety purposes than to run detailed manifest checks. However certain items, (aside from the obvious Nukes and Bioweapons) will draw their attention.

The Navy Might intercept you if you are on their black list (great way to cause trouble for your players), show battle damage or they are just bored or your ship is showing hot on their sensors. Just about everything else is legal, except for slaves, although that might change IYTU.


5. Weapons running is frowned upon. (Hey there is a war on. (As is drug running.)

So, who do you think makes money from wars, the big merchant companies and they won't won't the navy interfering with their legal profits. As for drugs, pretty much the same thing.

6. Even though planetary jurisdiction stops at the 10D limit, Imperial forces and especially the SPA tend to enforce local customs ordinances because they do have to live there, and they want to make sure they don't give the locals an excuse to interfere with the traffic between the surface and the 10D limit.

Why would they enforce local customs ordinances? I mean if they land at the Imperial Starport,there are no customs laws as long as they don't tranship outside the enclave. That is what the enclave is for, allowing transhipment of even material that is illegal here but not elsewhere. Now if they try to move things out of the starport, the merchants are on their own.

7. IMTU armor tends to get restricted along with weapons. In most cases you can get away with Jack or Diplo, but anything much heavier tends to draw extra attention. (Local conditions and law level of course causes variations.)

Reasonable, after all I wouldn't want a ship full of guys in battle armor coming to visit. IMTU we cheated and had ship's uniforms made, the equivalent of cloth armor but better fitting. Military armor should be off limits but stuff that can be bought 'off the rack' shouldn't be.

8. Boarding actions, for customs inspections are handled by small craft. With either the parent craft or a pair of fighters riding shotgun. Patrol craft that are designed for this type of operation carry a small craft for such purposes. In the case of a non-purpose built craft the inspecting ship, without a small craft will generally handle boarding via EVA. Note that the designation Small Craft is relative. It could be carried out by an AHL's fuel shuttle for example. However it is generally not a Jump capable craft. (After all they don't want you taking over their craft and escaping with it.)

Smart

9. Local governments do perform spot check customs inspections between the 10D limit and the surface. However since the cargo might not be destined for the local world, the locals are not supposed to be allowed to confiscate contraband but are allowed to accompany the ship to the Starport and ensure that said contraband does not get out of the starport. YMMV depending on the current relations between the SPA and the Local government. The SPA can not legally stop this from happening but relations between the SPA and the local government will determine the amount of spot checking being done and whether what is supposed to happen is what actually happens.

Again, If I am landing at a Imperial starport, it is an enclave of the Imperium and beyond local authority. The local ship has as much right to land there as me but it has no more authority over me than a boy scout. Again, it is an enclave beyond local authority, allowing transhipment or the carrying of locally forbidden cargo. Even in RL, a ship can legally carry something that is contraband (excluding recreational drugs and WMD's) into a port, if it is enroute to someplace where it is legal, such as a load of AK's going from Canada, stopping at a port in the US before delivering it to the dock in Panama. That is also why US customs does not get the right to inspect your luggage if you are simply flying from Canada to Mexico, with a stop in the US.