Cutlass for the Marines

[Leitz]

Okay, sometimes I'm slow. It took until breakfast this morning to figure out why Marines use a cutlass. I'm playing a Marine in atpollard's CT game. Naturally the character uses a cutlass. Why?

A few good reasons, all based on what Marines do :

1. No collateral damage. Energy weapons can fry sensitive ship electronics.

2. Slugs have a tendency to bounce into friend and foe.

3. Most people want to use ranged weapons. Inside a ship you don't need range and if you're up close when someone else is using a long range weapon your success chances go way up.

4. When Marines are in action often the hull is breached and they are in a vacuum. Your weapon doesn't have to kill anyone, it just has to damage their vacc suit. Often the threat of a cutlass should end a fight.

5. With a dull back edge the cutlass becomes easier for a second hand if needed.


Other reasons?

 

[HG_B]

Okay, sometimes I'm slow. It took until breakfast this morning to figure out why Marines use a cutlass. I'm playing a Marine in atpollard's CT game. Naturally the character uses a cutlass. Why?

A few good reasons, all based on what Marines do :

1. No collateral damage. Energy weapons can fry sensitive ship electronics.

2. Slugs have a tendency to bounce into friend and foe.

3. Most people want to use ranged weapons. Inside a ship you don't need range and if you're up close when someone else is using a long range weapon your success chances go way up.

4. When Marines are in action often the hull is breached and they are in a vacuum. Your weapon doesn't have to kill anyone, it just has to damage their vacc suit. Often the threat of a cutlass should end a fight.

5. With a dull back edge the cutlass becomes easier for a second hand if needed.


Other reasons?

The REAL reason, like today, is that it is ceremonial from the age of sail. No sane Marine is going to use a cutlass when they have a rifle or pistol. Example: I have my 10mm I carry, you have a cutlass. Come swinging at me and you'll just die tired...

 

[Leitz]

The REAL reason, like today, is that it is ceremonial from the age of sail. No sane Marine is going to use a cutlass when they have a rifle or pistol. Example: I have my 10mm I carry, you have a cutlass. Come swinging at me and you'll just die tired...

Assuming you can hit me before you run out of bullets. Assuming there's no one you have to worry about ricocheting into. Assuming there's sufficient atmosphere around to let the powder reach full consumption. Assuming there's nothing you mind the 10mm penetrating, if it can actually ignite.

 

[Supplement Four]

I read somewhere that Marc included the Cutlass in CT because US Marines still used the antiquated bayonet in the 70's, when Marc was writing Traveller.

My personal handwave has been that blade weapons are still relevant when you're out on the hull of a spacecraft fighting pirates. Cutting a life support tube is easier than shooting an enemy then dealing with the recoil.

So, when your accelerator rifle runs out of ammo, you pull the cutlass and REPEL ALL BOARDERS!

 

[HG_B]

Assuming you can hit me before you run out of bullets.

Not a problem. If you are that close you are already dead. Been there, done that.
You don't do something stupid in combat to get yourself killed (like using a blade instead of your firearm) because you are worried about a possible ricochet.

 

[HG_B]

My personal handwave has been that blade weapons are still relevant when you're out on the hull of a spacecraft fighting pirates. Cutting a life support tube is easier than shooting an enemy then dealing with the recoil.

That's why one uses laser rifles in Z-gee... Also, it would take one incident before they decided to upgrade umbilical cords from cardboard tubing to something that can't be cut by a primitive blade weapon. Also, do you realize what happens in Z-G when you swing that sword? MUCH worse that the recoil from a firearm.

 

[Supplement Four]

That's why one uses laser rifles in Z-gee... Also, it would take one incident before they decided to upgrade umbilical cords from cardboard tubing to something that can't be cut by a primitive blade weapon. Also, do you realize what happens in Z-G when you swing that sword? MUCH worse that the recoil from a firearm.

Good comments, HG_B. Food for thought.

 

[HG_B]

Good comments, HG_B. Food for thought.

Thanks but I learned most of this type of Trav specific items from reading stuff from Far Trader (wonder where he went), Aramis and other old timers.

 

[Supplement Four]

Thanks but I learned most of this type of Trav specific items from reading stuff from Far Trader (wonder where he went), Aramis and other old timers.

LOL. I'm an Old Timer, and I hadn't put that much thought into the cutlass. o:

 

[HG_B]

LOL. I'm an Old Timer, and I hadn't put that much thought into the cutlass. o:

Well, and from having O6 & E9 USMC family members

 

[rancke]

ISTR that the canonical reason is that it's a tradition. Everything else is rationalization.


Hans

 

[Ulsyus]

If there wasn't a practical reason for issuing bayonets to troops these days they wouldn't. Some SF actions in Afghanistan have in the past few years seen close quarters fighting where tomahawks have become popular.

Mind you, that sort of fighting hasn't involved opponents wearing all-over body armour. If two sides were equipped with rigid effective armour, then the cutlasses would have to be something special to be of any use.

 

[atpollard]

If there wasn't a practical reason for issuing bayonets to troops these days they wouldn't. Some SF actions in Afghanistan have in the past few years seen close quarters fighting where tomahawks have become popular.

Mind you, that sort of fighting hasn't involved opponents wearing all-over body armour. If two sides were equipped with rigid effective armour, then the cutlasses would have to be something special to be of any use.

Strictly IMHO, but by TL 12+, a Marine Combat Cutlass COULD be something special ... the skill wouldn't change, just the weapon.

 

[HG_B]

If there wasn't a practical reason for issuing bayonets to troops these days they wouldn't.

1) A buddy of mine told me last month that the USA stopped training new soldiers in the bayonet. 2) The USMC trains to use them as a last resort only. The rifle butt is also used in that type of situation.

 

[Ulsyus]

1) A buddy of mine told me last month that the USA stopped training new soldiers in the bayonet. 2) The USMC trains to use them as a last resort only. The rifle butt is also used in that type of situation.

In the US maybe, but other countries still use them. Training soldiers to still use bayonets also gives them a psych edge, insofar as training them to engage confidently and aggressively up close can help them get through some of the most fearful parts of conflict. Getting up close with someone who wants to do you damages is not fun, but when it's your job then any tool or training to help one get through it is of benefit. And no, I'm not talking about using a bayonet or hatchet instead of shooting someone, but as a supplement to firing. It may not happen much, but it has occurred.

 

[Supplement Four]

Strictly IMHO, but by TL 12+, a Marine Combat Cutlass COULD be something special ... the skill wouldn't change, just the weapon.

I thought about that too. Super-dense steel that never loses its edge. Vibro-power blades that can cut to through anything. Then, power-induced blades that glow and crackle with energy.

 

[whulorigan]

I thought about that too. Super-dense steel that never loses its edge. Vibro-power blades that can cut to through anything. Then, power-induced blades that glow and crackle with energy.

And all of those are described in MgT Supplement 4: Central Supply Catalogue.

 

[rancke]

I have a vague reccollection about a bit of chrome somewhere. I think it was a GT book, but I'm not sure. It was a story about someone manufacturing a batch of cutlasses out of superdense (for use with battledresses) and donating them to the Imperial Marines who proceeded to not use them. I think the story portrayed the idea as silly, but I can't remember why.


Hans

 

[whulorigan]

I have a vague reccollection about a bit of chrome somewhere. I think it was a GT book, but I'm not sure. It was a story about someone manufacturing a batch of cutlasses out of superdense (for use with battledresses) and donating them to the Imperial Marines who proceeded to not use them. I think the story portrayed the idea as silly, but I can't remember why.

GT: Ground Forces, p.34 (Sidebar):

In the late 1000s, a weapons development firm introduced a cutlass manufactured from hyperdense metal. Far too heavy to be used by an unaugmented person, the weapons were supposed to be used by battledressed Marines in close combat. Force Headquarters politely agreed to study the concept, then quietly let the program die. Many of the cutlasses found their way into private collections or the hands of those strong enough to use them.

 

[HG_B]

In the US maybe, but other countries still use them.

Could be. US does tend to lead the way in mil tech. The British used the Lee-Enfield until the 50's even though it was less than intelligent to do so...