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Cutlass for the Marines

Could be. US does tend to lead the way in mil tech. The British used the Lee-Enfield until the 50's even though it was less than intelligent to do so...

Brits were edging out of empire at the time, everyone was talking about the nuke changing the face of ground warfare. Maybe they figured it was better to spend money on tanks, planes and subs than on infantry weapons.

I would have the marines keep the cutlass as a sport and ceremonial weapon, have the units compete with each other in sport tournaments for unit honors.
 
Brits were edging out of empire at the time, everyone was talking about the nuke changing the face of ground warfare. Maybe they figured it was better to spend money on tanks, planes and subs than on infantry weapons.

Naw, the Army knew they needed to replace it at the beginning of WW2. They were under no illusions that the infantry was properly equipped.
 
Brits were edging out of empire at the time, everyone was talking about the nuke changing the face of ground warfare. Maybe they figured it was better to spend money on tanks, planes and subs than on infantry weapons.

I would have the marines keep the cutlass as a sport and ceremonial weapon, have the units compete with each other in sport tournaments for unit honors.


Now I want to include some Troopers (marines) in my ATU who compete in cutting cane stalks, splitting coconuts, and so on with their durasteel machetes (cutlass skill).
Machete work details might be part of their PT program.
 
I seem to remember reading, maybe in one of the Digest Group books, about a bunch of pirates that had managed to find some Ancient personal defense shields that would stop high-velocity projectiles and energy weapons from getting through to them. However, low-velocity objects, like a cutlass would. Hence, the Marine training in Cutlass. Anyone else remember that?
 
I seem to remember reading, maybe in one of the Digest Group books, about a bunch of pirates that had managed to find some Ancient personal defense shields that would stop high-velocity projectiles and energy weapons from getting through to them. However, low-velocity objects, like a cutlass would. Hence, the Marine training in Cutlass. Anyone else remember that?

Dune.

House Atreides.

Shields.
 
Could be. US does tend to lead the way in mil tech. The British used the Lee-Enfield until the 50's even though it was less than intelligent to do so...
http://www.historyofwar.org/articles/weapons_EM-2_rifle.html

The British were in the middle of developing and converting to a new calibre [.280 (7x43mm)*], and a new rifle - the Enfield EM-2. This had been selected in 1951 as the winner of a competition started in March 1947.

Here is a pic of the prototype - note it is a bullpup semi-auto with a 20-round removable magazine and low-power sighting scope.

Enfield_bullpup_prototype.jpg


In other words - almost identical to the L85 they adopted in the early 1980s.

However, this effort was cut short by the US declaring that that calibre was too weak**, and insisting that the UK adopt the new US-supported "NATO-standard" .308 (7.62x51). This led to the eventual dropping of the EM-2/.280 and the purchase of the FN-FAL in .308 in 1952.

Note that at the time the UK was developing this advanced rifle, the US was developing the M-14 - a modified M-1 chambered for the .308.



* actually .284 inches (7.2 mm)

** So then, in the early 1960s, the US adopted the even weaker .223 (5.56x45) for the AR-15 (M-16). Then in 2002 the Americans developed a military calibre intended for the M4 version of the M16 family called the 6.8 mm Remington SPC — with similar ballistic properties to the .280 British cartridge — which was intended to provide better ballistics than the 5.56×45mm.

280 (7x43mm) - bullet weight 139 gr (9 g) - muzzle velocity 2,530 ft/s (770 m/s) - energy 2,680 J (1,980 ft·lbf) - weight per round ? - Overall length 2.54 in (65 mm)

5.56×45mm - bullet weight 63 gr (4.1 g) - muzzle velocity 3,070 ft/s (936 m/s) - energy 1,796 J (1,325 ft·lbf) - weight per round 183 gr (11.8 g) - Overall length 2.260 in (57.40 mm)
 
Dune.

House Atreides.

Shields.

Done earlier in the 60's with Joe Haldeman's Forever War. The space infantry was equipped with blades because the Stasis Field Generators would let no energy (or energy weapon discharges) through the shields... Taurian Infantry attacked Earth infantry and fought pitched hand-to-hand combat battles, which the Earth infantry only won because they set off Nukes just outside the radius of the Stasis Field Generator killing everyone except who was inside the stasis sphere.
 
Tangent alert!


I've considered swapping cutlass skill for shotgun skill as the automatic skill-1 for troopers (marines) in my ATU.


Side question related to cutlasses (and similar weapons):

How much swordplay have you had in your Traveller games?
 
The British were in the middle of developing and converting to a new calibre [.280 (7x43mm)*], and a new rifle - the Enfield EM-2. This had been selected in 1951 as the winner of a competition started in March 1947.

Yes, yes I know that. However, that has nothing to do with my original point.
 
Done earlier in the 60's with Joe Haldeman's Forever War. The space infantry was equipped with blades because the Stasis Field Generators would let no energy (or energy weapon discharges) through the shields... Taurian Infantry attacked Earth infantry and fought pitched hand-to-hand combat battles, which the Earth infantry only won because they set off Nukes just outside the radius of the Stasis Field Generator killing everyone except who was inside the stasis sphere.

Dune was published 9 years before The Forever War, in 1965.

Haldeman's book was published in 1974.
 
Tangent alert!


I've considered swapping cutlass skill for shotgun skill as the automatic skill-1 for troopers (marines) in my ATU.
Personally, I really like the shotgun ... a good general purpose combat weapon.
I think that a lot of interesting loads could be developed for it.


Side question related to cutlasses (and similar weapons):
How much swordplay have you had in your Traveller games?
Still waiting on the first sword fight (in my personal experience), but I find that game mechanics drives many (most?) player choices. If the rules focused on lots of armor immune to gunfire, and had 'uber' swords that could cleave through it, you would probably see more general sword use ... or you could just play D&D. ;)
 
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Dune was published 9 years before The Forever War, in 1965.

Haldeman's book was published in 1974.

How long was it on the slushpile?

It's not unheard of for a novel to sit for a decade before being taken up after a later submission sees print (and fans).
 
How long was it on the slushpile?

It's not unheard of for a novel to sit for a decade before being taken up after a later submission sees print (and fans).
Joe Haldeman wrote the Forever War based on his real life experiences in the Vietnam War, it was originally published by Analog. He wrote it after his service and wounding.

So it wasn't on the slush pile very long...
 
Okay, sometimes I'm slow. It took until breakfast this morning to figure out why Marines use a cutlass. I'm playing a Marine in atpollard's CT game. Naturally the character uses a cutlass. Why?

Maybe for a while Mssr. Miller was imagining Traveller to be a "laser pistol and cutlass" type game?

However, tradition is the most likely reason. I give three possible explanations for the origin of the tradition. Mind you, in the far future, where nobles wear ceremonial revolvers because they're "ancient" in the Imperium, swords would be too ancient to talk about, like marines carrying gilded rocks because that's even more ancient, I think a more recent explanation would be required.

Aslan. Perhaps during the Long Night, humans and Aslan dealt with matters of honor by duelling with swords (the Aslan were willing to permit it as it made duels honorable as humans lack a dewclaw). It fulfilled the honorable niche of fighting your foe face-to-face.

Battledress. Marines train with the cutlass when learning to use battledress. It not only builds strength and endurance, martial discipline and confidence, as most importantly, it teaches a marine to move in battledress without being a bull in a china shop, a very important skill. If we assume that the majority of small arms encountered on a starship cannot penetrate battledress (and depending on the ruleset, this may or may not be true) then marines might carry cutlasses as functional weapons; if the enemy guns can't hurt you in your armor, bearing down on them with a cutlass (especially if it can cut through or damage spacesuits) is likely to make your opponents surrender.

Vilani. Perhaps they're called cutlasses, but the origin of the tradition actually lies with the Vilani, who are much more tradition-bound than those liberal Solomani and the weapon is actually Vilani in origin (the basic forms of melee weapons that are effective for a human to use are not great in number, so parallel evolution isn't out of the question).
 
How long was it on the slushpile?

It's not unheard of for a novel to sit for a decade before being taken up after a later submission sees print (and fans).

Joe Haldeman wrote the Forever War based on his real life experiences in the Vietnam War, it was originally published by Analog. He wrote it after his service and wounding.

So it wasn't on the slush pile very long...

And, Dune won the Hugo in 1966, a year after it was published.
 
Maybe for a while Mssr. Miller was imagining Traveller to be a "laser pistol and cutlass" type game?

Cutlass and laser pistol ATU (nothing to do with the ATU I'm working on elsewhere)

  • Personal screen TL 12
This man-portable (often made as a belt unit) damper screen provides excellent protection against firearms and explosives but no protection against lower-velocity weapons such as swords. The screen interferes with radio, magnetic bottles, and several other tech systems. Battledress cannot be used in conjunction with it.

Lasers compatible with the screen have been developed. The one major flaw of these weapons is a slow recharge time. Stacking multiple lasers on one compact weapon has been tried, but inside a screen such multi-lasers overheat and malfunction with alarming regularity.

Screens may be combined with relfec (very common for anyone who can afford it as an under layer to other body armor or worn alone as a shiny suit), ablat, jack, combat armor, etc.

needs STATS BY SYSTEM…


Design note—there’s nothing even remotely original about this. I don’t pretend otherwise. I'm sharing it only because your 'cutlass and laser pistol'' remark struck me as lots of golden age sci fi fun.
 
Personally I think GDW made a big mistake by eschewing personal force fields and starship stealth fields (two big mistakes!)


Hans
 
Personally I think GDW made a big mistake by eschewing personal force fields and starship stealth fields (two big mistakes!)


Hans


Well those two techno-marvels would certainly help out if one wanted to do a swashbuckling space opera (please note that I mean "space opera" without any trace of contempt; I rather like a good sword and blaster adventure) game. Lots of swordplay as space marines and their enemies go slashing up and down corridors on embattled vessels.
Pirate starships dropping stealth mode and zooming in to attack fat traders.

That kind of stuff, Hans?
 
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