D&D like Char-Gen for Traveller?

[Blue Ghost]

One of the comments I heard at the con last month was that Traveller was essentially a game of where you play out your retirement.

So, I was wondering. How about ripping an idea from other RPGs, notably D&D, and creating an experience mechanic so that a young 18 year old character can gain EXP points and apply them to skills (with a skill cap of 5, as per T5 rules).

And that said skill mechanic could still not be violated (skill pts = IQ + Edu), but perhaps said EXP could be applied to increase either IQ or Edu stats.

In years past there have been Experience threads, and I've PM'd a lot of people over the topic, but I don't recall this particular approach.

Thoughts?

 

[McPerth]

Unless you change quite a lot the game system, playing with a 18 years old young person with no skills (or at most some of them at 0 if you use background skills) will make him/her quite useless...

And now imagine a party composed only by those skill deprived teenagers trying to crew a starship...

 

[Blue Ghost]

Which would be the challenge in the game. But you really don't find it fun and interesting to be a teenager again and trying to fly a ship with your friends?

 

[mike wightman]

The trouble with adding an XP system is that unless you are very careful the XP system rewards playing time more than prior history career time.

 

[kilemall]

Well, really, the original CT rules in the Experience section show you how to get physical and EDU stat improvement, combat skill improvement AND a long term other skill sets program.

As most probably have read by now, I have a very stat-centric task roll system, so an 18 year old that has talent can do some things- don't have to do that specific method, just anything that downplays horrendous negatives for lack of skill.

I also use critical success/failure rolls as a gateway to immediate skill increase, but with an equal chance of skill decrease, to cover those 'oh that's how you do it/that's what I was doing wrong' Eureka moments- or the moment the character can never pilot a ship again.

Finally, for a simple method of character time doing a job without dramatic breakthrough or schooling or after hours development, I'd use a year per skill level system-

Skill-1 1 Year
Skill-2 2 Years
Skill-3 3 Years
Skill-4 4 Years
etc.

The character would have to dedicate to a job using that skill primarily during that time, not be distracted by EDU or physical fitness, and roll on that skill set/job the same as a physical fitness commitment, each year (but with higher INT/EDU being a positive not a negative).

 

[kilemall]

Which would be the challenge in the game. But you really don't find it fun and interesting to be a teenager again and trying to fly a ship with your friends?

Would you find it fun and interesting to let your teenager fly your Cessna?

 

[aramis]

Would you find it fun and interesting to let your teenager fly your Cessna?

It certainly was interesting to be in the back seat while other cadets were undergoing flight instruction... (CAP - we'd usually have two or three cadets in plane, plus the CFI. And swap seats at 5000' MSL.)

 

[RandyB]

You can port over the Rookie Template concept from Mekton Zeta to cover this kind of chargen and advancement. Basically, each template has a themed set of skills, and Rookie characters advance in-play at twice the rate of Professional characters (who have a Traveller-ish generation method).

 

[Blue Ghost]

The trouble with adding an XP system is that unless you are very careful the XP system rewards playing time more than prior history career time.

One of my major criticisms of D&D is that it the Exp system itself becomes a reward system, rather than the treasure and completing the adventure itself.

An example of how out of hand it gets can be seen in Everquest, where players sit in a spot waiting for a monster to kill so they can power-level. No story, no plot, no avoiding traps, no exploring some set of ruins or what not, just sit there and wait for something kill so you can push your character's stats forward. I bring that up because it seemed like that's how a lot of teenage boys were playing D&D.

Traveller is different, but it's like by the time you're ready for adventuring you're almost too old to do so.

 

[Blue Ghost]

Would you find it fun and interesting to let your teenager fly your Cessna?

Well, look. How old is the common infantryman or airman? That's sort of what I'm driving at here. I'm not saying to just let a skill-less 18 year old run rampant without anything. I'm saying that perhaps a player can play a character who is young, but also has a career path. And that as the player plays his character, he can earn Exp to apply towards skills and stats as his character continues through a campaign.

 

[kilemall]

Well, look. How old is the common infantryman or airman? That's sort of what I'm driving at here. I'm not saying to just let a skill-less 18 year old run rampant without anything. I'm saying that perhaps a player can play a character who is young, but also has a career path. And that as the player plays his character, he can earn Exp to apply towards skills and stats as his character continues through a campaign.

Well, like I said, the CT Experience section right from the beginning had a path to continue learning and upping skill, the same mechanics could be applied to the 18 year old as the mustered out vet.

The one thing the mechanic doesn't cover is learning an entirely new skill, which is why I proposed the OTJ training version.

Trade school, university and/or service academy as per the expanded chargens should also be an option, and could be a full-blown role playing adventure or mini-campaign.

 

[kilemall]

But if you have your heart set on a point system, I'd use the Book 10 fanbook somebody worked up for CT, the MgT 1E point system for chargen, or GURPS point systems to express points towards a given skill, and a means to achieve them.

Perhaps 1 routine successful task rolled under threat/duress/trouble for every point needed to get to skill-0, then an increased level of task difficulty earning each point for each skill level up.

 

[McPerth]

Well, really, the original CT rules in the Experience section show you how to get physical and EDU stat improvement, combat skill improvement AND a long term other skill sets program.

And it also has a method to learn skills quite quicker if another character has Instruction skill and teaches it to other characters...

Off course, this discussion wil llead to the way to improve skills:

For CT it would be painful (unless you use instructors, as said above) to reach even skill level 1 in anything, and they could do little until then (and crewing a ship is out of thought).

For MT, they may really try to learn something by the application of ATs and observation, but crewing a ship is also out of thought for a time (shorter than in CT, though).

For T4 it would be more playable, as stats take more precedence (and you have some background skills that may be helpful too), and the experience system might help to develop those skills (though learning new non default skills is quite more difficult, so, again, some time would be needed to crew a ship).

For MgT the system (CB, page 59) fails. As your character has a skill total of 0, if he tries to have more skills at 0 it would take 0 weeks CoW, and if you try to learn a skil lat level 1 it takes 1 week (even while the sidebar in CB page 51 says Each rank represents several years of experience using that skill ) for the first one, 2 for the second one, etc.

So, in MgT, by using the RAW, a skill-less character may learn all skills at level 0 instantaneously (as each one takes 0 weeks) and up to 9 skills at level 1 in 45 weeks...

 

[mike wightman]

I think the correspondence course rules that increase Edu could be adapted to learning a technical skill - the ones you would learn by taking a college sabbatical.

It would be similar to taking an Open University degree here in the UK.

 

[kilemall]

And it also has a method to learn skills quite quicker if another character has Instruction skill and teaches it to other characters...

Doh! Of course, Instruction, and I took such pains to build it into many of the tables for our recent discussion on college education in the CT subforum.

Heh, that prompts a thought- how much more effective is a telepath at being a teacher?

Zho U may be a four year degree- in one year.

9 skill-1 in 45 weeks seems a bit much.

Mike, the 'skill sabbatical' would be the equivalent of what I am talking about re: a 6-24 month Trade School, or Associates Degrees here in the states (two year very specific skill sets rather then general EDU).

Paramedic and/or LVN training to Medic-1 would be another example, not perhaps a full doctor nurse or surgeon but what you need to stabilize critical wounds.

 

[Blue Ghost]

Well how about we try to generate a character?

Roy, Age 18
St 7
Dex 7
End 7
Edu 7
IQ 7
Soc 7

Leaves downtown Efate Starport High School with diploma in hand. Say we start him off adventuring immediately, and he gets hired as a hand on a Far Trader. Make him an "Engineer's Mate" or something.

The ship leaves orbit, goes into jump, then emerges from only to be attacked by pirates. There might be some experience awarded to Roy for manning the engineering section during any space combat, and he'd certainly get some Exp for being in a firefight if there were any boarders.

How much and where I don't know. But if he started out with no gun combat, then was given something easy to operate, say a hunting rifle, then he might get a guncombat of 0 as starter skill. A skill that can be built on as the campaign continues.

 

[McPerth]

Heh, that prompts a thought- how much more effective is a telepath at being a teacher?

I'd have to dig for my Droyne CT:AM to answer you this question (and right now I have no time), but, IIRC, they use precisely that, and so it's described there.

 

[kilemall]

Well how about we try to generate a character?

Roy, Age 18
St 7
Dex 7
End 7
Edu 7
IQ 7
Soc 7

Leaves downtown Efate Starport High School with diploma in hand. Say we start him off adventuring immediately, and he gets hired as a hand on a Far Trader. Make him an "Engineer's Mate" or something.

The ship leaves orbit, goes into jump, then emerges from only to be attacked by pirates. There might be some experience awarded to Roy for manning the engineering section during any space combat, and he'd certainly get some Exp for being in a firefight if there were any boarders.

How much and where I don't know. But if he started out with no gun combat, then was given something easy to operate, say a hunting rifle, then he might get a guncombat of 0 as starter skill. A skill that can be built on as the campaign continues.

With CT and COTI rules it's assumed that unless you are a Doctor, Bureaucrat or Barbarian, you have Gun-0.

Most rulesets nowadays have skill-0 sets associated with X planet/environment, so Roy is going to be able to do something athletic, drive/ride something, maybe fix something else and/or have Bribery-0/Gambling-0/Carousing-0/Streetwise-0, etc.

 

[Blue Ghost]

Very cool

So Roy gets hired with Gun-0, helps slug it out against some pirates. Engineering Exp and Gun Exp.

The ship lands, and Roy is sent on an errand. Maybe he's buying life support or fuel for the ship. That probably won't garnish much in the way of Exp rewarded by the Ref, but maybe someone jumps him and tries to take his wallet.

If Roy has Streetwise or Brawling, then the Ref administering the adventure might possibly reward Roy some Exp point, even if he loses the fight for his wallet.

The only thing I can see working against this method of char-gen is that A) it's not really char-gen, but creating a character a-la D&D and throwing him out in the big wide world, and B) given how it can take four years to level up a skill in standard Char-gen (assuming another skill level is rewarded for the exact same skill) then Exp is either hard to come by (and reward), or it's going to take lots and lots of Exp points to kick up skill or an attribute by a notch.

On that same token, it might draw more players to the game knowing that they don't have to start as "old men" or "old women", but can start young and gain Exp for skill and attribute building.

And if your character dies in an adventure, then you've died in char gen

 

[mike wightman]

In CT you can attempt most 'skill use' with either no penalty or a minor penalty - very few skills are listed as can't be attempted if skill is not known.