I'm not sure what you're getting at.
D&D like Char-Gen for Traveller?
- Thread starter Blue Ghost
- Start date
I'm not sure what you're getting at.
Enoki
SOC-14 1K
The other thing you can do to give characters skills at an earlier age is simply let them start accumulating them at an earlier age. I see no problem with this so long as the skill(s) involved are reasonable ones.
For example giving a TL 7 character ground vehicle 1 at 18 when they've been driving for two years is reasonable. Steward 1 might be reasonable likewise if they worked in the food industry for two years.
So, it would then be possible to start an 18 year old character with at least a few usable skills. They could learn more as they went.
For example giving a TL 7 character ground vehicle 1 at 18 when they've been driving for two years is reasonable. Steward 1 might be reasonable likewise if they worked in the food industry for two years.
So, it would then be possible to start an 18 year old character with at least a few usable skills. They could learn more as they went.
Interesting. My D&D-ish proposal is to let them start with nothing or a skill-0 in some number of things, and then as the characters are actually played, then award Experience like D&D such that it can be rewarded for piloting, fixing broken mechanical things, shooting targets in the course of adventuring (not target practice), stalking game, tracking down criminals, operating starship weapons and so forth.
With D&D you have a character who might start off with some clothes, some rudimentary armor, and a weapon or two. He's essentially a Traveller barbarian. The difference between him and a young Traveller character are their life paths.
Where the D&D character get rewarded for killing bad guys and avoiding traps, the Traveller character would get Exp for operating jump drives, driving air rafts (or grav vehicles) and so forth.
The D&D character would "level up".
The Traveller character would get either a new skill, an increase in a skill, or a boost to their attributes.
What do you think?
With D&D you have a character who might start off with some clothes, some rudimentary armor, and a weapon or two. He's essentially a Traveller barbarian. The difference between him and a young Traveller character are their life paths.
Where the D&D character get rewarded for killing bad guys and avoiding traps, the Traveller character would get Exp for operating jump drives, driving air rafts (or grav vehicles) and so forth.
The D&D character would "level up".
The Traveller character would get either a new skill, an increase in a skill, or a boost to their attributes.
What do you think?
Enoki
SOC-14 1K
For me that seems perfectly reasonable. It isn't as if the character stops developing as they do game stuff. You have a character working on a starship they should develop more skill in whatever they're doing after 6 to 12 months of time. That would be equivalent to their getting that skill rolled up from the beginning.
Same goes for doing other stuff. The time involved might vary with the level and skill involved. That is, skill 0 might take say, 2 or 3 months to develop while that same skill at level 4 might take several years of practice at a minimum.
Same goes for doing other stuff. The time involved might vary with the level and skill involved. That is, skill 0 might take say, 2 or 3 months to develop while that same skill at level 4 might take several years of practice at a minimum.
Erm... yeah, I forgot about T20. But I was turned off by T20 in that it was my impression that Exp would be rewarded as per AD&D; i.e. the T20 would level up as opposed to what I've proposed here.
Again, my stuff's packed away, so I can't double check the T20 rules to make sure.
Can someone comment?
Again, my stuff's packed away, so I can't double check the T20 rules to make sure.
Can someone comment?
Well, T20 is based upon D20 3rd edition. Which means you get experience, level up, and get points to apply to skills (i.e. improve skills).
You can, and both T20 and D20 have rules for, giving experience for doing things other than killing monsters. Like successfully completing adventures.
For the level of detail you have expressed, the T20 system does what you describe. But there are many more details about D20 in general and T20 specifically where you might not like the whole system.
Interesting.
Yeah, when I first started playing D&D I got the concept of levelling through experience, and gaining hit points and so forth. So when Hunter put T20 on the block, I was a little iffy about the whole thing.
I guess my apprehension was as follows; in CT you essentially play out "the rest of your life" after a career in either one of the armed services or one of the civie puruits. And your character, as mustered out, is essentially maxed out already.
So when T20 hit the shelves I figured the Exp warded in the D20 system would be applied on top of maxed out characters. I'm not sure if that's the case, but that was the feeling I got.
And typically I actually do hate the Exp / levelling system, because it seemed like a lot of the players I met way back when, were playing to gain Exp instead of playing to enjoy the adventure.
I'll have to crack open my T20 at some point.
Yeah, when I first started playing D&D I got the concept of levelling through experience, and gaining hit points and so forth. So when Hunter put T20 on the block, I was a little iffy about the whole thing.
I guess my apprehension was as follows; in CT you essentially play out "the rest of your life" after a career in either one of the armed services or one of the civie puruits. And your character, as mustered out, is essentially maxed out already.
So when T20 hit the shelves I figured the Exp warded in the D20 system would be applied on top of maxed out characters. I'm not sure if that's the case, but that was the feeling I got.
And typically I actually do hate the Exp / levelling system, because it seemed like a lot of the players I met way back when, were playing to gain Exp instead of playing to enjoy the adventure.
I'll have to crack open my T20 at some point.
Condottiere
SOC-14 5K
While levelling is fun, I think it's also outdated, especially for more modernish settings, where you expect more fluidity among various aspects and factors that make up your character and give them their capabilities.
Accumulating points that can be spent on character development seems more appropriate.
Accumulating points that can be spent on character development seems more appropriate.
mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
Just because you don't have a skill in CT it doesn't mean you can't attempt the skill task. You sometimes suffer a penalty - like the -4 for not having a weapon skill - and some skills prohibit you from trying unless you have at least one skill level.
mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
How do they know how to even attempt to pilot a ship or fire its weapons with no skills?
Are Traveller ships so automated that playing computer games as a youth is all the basic training you need for ship piloting and gunnery?
D&D characters start at level 1 with training in their class, many years of training in some cases.
Again. unless you have basic training in such systems or the systems themselves are so automated and easy to use all you are doing is pushing a button or two, your initial attempts at piloting, gunnery, repairing a fusion power plant should be doomed to failure.
Provided that it takes the same amount of in game time to gain skills as it does during character generation then its a good idea.
Ever play any White Wolf games? The XP system in those games was badly broken in that after a few sessions your initial character could rival one of the setting demi-gods.
mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
T20 awarded XP for achieving story goals as well as the standard D&D 3.5 reasons for XP.
You could start as an 18 year old level 1 character and just play, or you could use the career path system to go through your prior service, gaining levels and mustering out.
During my time playing and running T20 actually gaining a level during play was pretty rare.
mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
Slight aside but do you have any knowledge of d20Modern/Future or other TSR level based sci-fi games such as Star Frontiers and Alternity? There may be stuff to rip off from those games.
Not quite double- since skill level costs are non-linear... (p 117)
Not really Traveller-ish. More like that of Space 1889... while there is a little push your luck for professionals, the odds of actually losing attributes from packages is pretty slim...
3/10 on table Q. Chances of hitting table Q, 1/10 for non-dangerous, or 3/10 for dangerous. So, 9% or 3% (roughly, equivalent to a 4+ or a 3+ survival)... and no other age effects...
It's the most travelleresque of the Interlock System lifepaths... but it's still not terribly close.
My take: I really dislike this kind of experience system. Roy should gain more experience from working on starship drives for six months in boring, routine operation than he will from one short encounter with pirates. And if you want to improve your shooting, you go to the range; as one old Army training manual put it, "marksmanship deteriorates significantly in combat."
That kind of system is oriented towards rewarding adventure goals but motivates the "kill the monster to level up" mindset, as others pointed out.
Reality is that for many skills where level-0 is required to avoid negative DMs (e.g. gun combat), level-0 is easily obtained. So the 18-yo character is not at a huge disadvantage except that he doesn't know anything ... which is the penalty you pay for choosing to play a character who doesn't know anything.
My solution for the 18 yo character is to start him with level-0 in a small number of applicable skills, or even level-1 in one or two skills (vehicle, computer, depending on background) and then let him learn. In chargen, you get (assuming CT books 4-7 rules) one or two skills a year. You have to campaign for some time to learn anything.
Finally, I object to the notion that a 3-term veteran at age 30 is "old" or has "retired."
For Mekton RAW, I agree with your analysis. The "doubling" has to do with the rate at which a Rookie gains Improvement Points; the non-linear advancement does shift that away from a true "double-rate of advancement".
And yeah; not the same tone/feel as Traveller chargen. But adapting the Rookie template concept to existing Traveller chargen is more what I was aiming at, which would mean allowing a faster rate of in-play advancement on top of a small (in Mekton, seven skill levels spead among skills appropriate to the template's theme) number of starting skills for a Traveller Rookie.
My take: I really dislike this kind of experience system. Roy should gain more experience from working on starship drives for six months in boring, routine operation than he will from one short encounter with pirates. And if you want to improve your shooting, you go to the range; as one old Army training manual put it, "marksmanship deteriorates significantly in combat."
That kind of system is oriented towards rewarding adventure goals but motivates the "kill the monster to level up" mindset, as others pointed out.
Reality is that for many skills where level-0 is required to avoid negative DMs (e.g. gun combat), level-0 is easily obtained. So the 18-yo character is not at a huge disadvantage except that he doesn't know anything ... which is the penalty you pay for choosing to play a character who doesn't know anything.
My solution for the 18 yo character is to start him with level-0 in a small number of applicable skills, or even level-1 in one or two skills (vehicle, computer, depending on background) and then let him learn. In chargen, you get (assuming CT books 4-7 rules) one or two skills a year. You have to campaign for some time to learn anything.
Finally, I object to the notion that a 3-term veteran at age 30 is "old" or has "retired."
*nods and grins in approval of the comments*
Yeah, I figured it might be that during the X-number of months that Roy and his crew mates weren't slugging it out with pirates or whoever else, that he'd be manning engineering doing whatever engineers do during starship operations.
So, it may be that during the pirate encounter Roy and gang earn something like bonus Exp, as opposed to a few points of Exp a day or week or whatever. Points that will eventually be applied to whatever skill he's been using, or something related.
How does that strike you?
On age; I just thought it might be neat if you could include younger characters for younger players. I'm not sure how'd they fare in a game session, but it seemed worth exploring.
Enoki
SOC-14 1K
My take: I really dislike this kind of experience system. Roy should gain more experience from working on starship drives for six months in boring, routine operation than he will from one short encounter with pirates. And if you want to improve your shooting, you go to the range; as one old Army training manual put it, "marksmanship deteriorates significantly in combat."
That kind of system is oriented towards rewarding adventure goals but motivates the "kill the monster to level up" mindset, as others pointed out.
Reality is that for many skills where level-0 is required to avoid negative DMs (e.g. gun combat), level-0 is easily obtained. So the 18-yo character is not at a huge disadvantage except that he doesn't know anything ... which is the penalty you pay for choosing to play a character who doesn't know anything.
My solution for the 18 yo character is to start him with level-0 in a small number of applicable skills, or even level-1 in one or two skills (vehicle, computer, depending on background) and then let him learn. In chargen, you get (assuming CT books 4-7 rules) one or two skills a year. You have to campaign for some time to learn anything.
Finally, I object to the notion that a 3-term veteran at age 30 is "old" or has "retired."
I agree here. Experience should be based on repeated use of the skill either through practice, study, or actual hands on doing. Skill levels should increase in terms of what you need to get them exponentially.
It should be fairly easy to get a skill level of 0 or 1 but if you don't practice / study / use that skill daily then you'll never get to a 4 or 5 level of it.
I'd add that skills that you rarely use will degrade with time too. I can't see someone with say a 3 in sword fighting keeping that skill level if they never use it. With time they'd fall to a default of 1 in it.
Bonuses could be given for success in doing more difficult tasks toward that skill. An engineer that fixes a badly damaged system successfully gets a much bigger bonus towards skill development than one that just does routine maintenance.
If it didn't complicate things too much, having each skill rated by practice, study, and practical hands on experience would be the way to go. Some might be obtained simply by study. Others might be by practice, while there would be those that require experience as their major component.
Unlike D & D, Traveller has a skills range that includes stuff beyond combat. Having a character in your group who is skilled at cooking, or fixing gear, or doing bureaucratic paperwork all have their uses (or should).
While you can certainly have a combat focused game or scenario, I've found more fun in having the group do other things besides just shoot stuff.
Hey, I know a retired marine with less than 1 full term. (injured after 180 days. Get's full VA, has a retiree ID, a (small) pension, and permission to wear his blues... (not that he can fit them - 20 years of slacking has changed his bodily shape.)
It's interesting to note that a medical-discharge in Traveller has no benefits... so, unless it happens in term 6+, no pensions.
I recall reading of some officers and NCOs in the UK Army being retained on the regimental registry for up to a decade post injury as "cadre" - showing up, but not actually working, or if working, doing scutwork and paperwork, so as to make their retirement. Not many...
Great, now I'm envisioning some IMC trooper with a major injury being stuffed in a low berth right after primary healing, and spending 4 terms in the LB, then being processed out at retirement - effectively a 1 term character, but with a 5 term pension...
Enoki
SOC-14 1K
Well, giving it some thought over a beer...
The current Traveller system is good if you need up front characters for a scenario who will then be more or less tossed aside. That is, you roll them up, play the scenario, then forget they ever existed and move on to new characters for the next scenario.
However, if you want characters for repetitive use over a long period, in game after game, where they grow and get better at whatever they do, then the system doesn't work well with them.
I'd think a mix of the two is really what's needed. The first for the one-time scenario and to generate seasoned characters that could lead a party / group while the second is necessary to allow for the "18 year old" character that is in the group and will grow into a really useful member over time.
However that comes to work that is what appears necessary.
Of course, throwing a monkey wrench into this is alien races...
See! Even experts agree with me! :rofl:
The current Traveller system is good if you need up front characters for a scenario who will then be more or less tossed aside. That is, you roll them up, play the scenario, then forget they ever existed and move on to new characters for the next scenario.
However, if you want characters for repetitive use over a long period, in game after game, where they grow and get better at whatever they do, then the system doesn't work well with them.
I'd think a mix of the two is really what's needed. The first for the one-time scenario and to generate seasoned characters that could lead a party / group while the second is necessary to allow for the "18 year old" character that is in the group and will grow into a really useful member over time.
However that comes to work that is what appears necessary.
Of course, throwing a monkey wrench into this is alien races...
See! Even experts agree with me! :rofl:
