Condottiere
SOC-14 5K
Some bears are smarter than average.
Though I'd be more worried about a cybernetic trash panda with a fondness for ordnance.
Though I'd be more worried about a cybernetic trash panda with a fondness for ordnance.
Design a cheap Scout Car
- Thread starter sabredog
- Start date
Timerover51
SOC-14 5K
Or a Very Large Creature looking for more metal to recycle.
I'm more worried about the rest of his companions - where they go, so goes the fate of worlds....
I've had the concept of a 'Rover' and a 'Squad Carrier' (essentially a small MRAP type vehicle) in various traveller 'verses.
Rover
A Rover is a 4x4 or 6x6 off-road vehicle that varies in size between a jeep and an off-road truck like the smaller models in the Mercedes Unimog family. These could be powered by a battery, internal combustion engine, air-breathing fuel cell or a small fusion power plant. Rovers are not normally armoured, although armour kits can be fitted. If actually purchased for off-road use, it's likely to be accessorised with a winch, earth moving tools and various other items.
A Rover is a vehicle that's large enough to carry a party around with their junk. Typically a rover is not pressurised and is too small to be a mobile habitat - you need a full size ATV for that. Rovers are not normally amphibious, although amphibious variants are produced (think something like a supacat or other bathtub ATV). If you need to sleep in the field then some sort of portable shelter - tents or pressure tents - can be carried as cargo.
If you intend to use it in non-breathable atmospheres then a version with a non air-breathing powerplant would be needed. If you're going to the expense of lugging it around in a starship then you can probably afford one with a fusion power plant, although battery or fuel-cell based systems can also be used in this type of environment.
Models designed for transport in a starship might be more expensive than a normal SUV, using aerospace grade materials like composites or exotic alloys to save weight. The roof is typically removable or maybe a cloth roof like an army land rover. You can fit non-pneumatic tires for operating in a vacuum. If operating while using vacc suits the roof will normally be left off and doors removed, giving an effect a bit like the moon buggy.
Most rovers would fit in an air/raft bay, typically about 2m wide and 3-5m long. A small one might go down to the size of a SWB land rover or even a jeep. One like this would take up 1.5-2t in a cargo bay and could be carried as a utility vehicle by a merchant such as a free trader.
As one could see, to be truly 'all terrain', there are many conflicting requirements to be juggled - hence the tendency for true ATVs to be somewhat larger.
Squad Carrier
A Squad carrier is a lightly armoured, mine-resistant military utility or scout vehicle. Again, coming in various sizes, typically 4x4 or 6x6, the squad carrier is normally somewhat amphibious and can be armed with a pintel or remote mounted weapon. Typically around 2-2.5m wide and 4-6m long (depending on the model) this will carry a crew of 2-3, plus some passengers and cargo. Larger models can carry an infantry squad, smaller ones a few grunts, maybe a single fire team. Armour is normally sufficient to resist small arms fire appropriate to the tech level.
Normally the hull is not pressurised, although NBC protection may be fitted. However ...
Variants of some 6x6 squad carrier chassis can be fitted with a pressurised crew compartment instead of the normal body. It's rather more cramped than an ATV, but you can sling enough hammocks for a party of 4-5 to sleep. It is somewhat taller than the squad carrier variants, nearly 3m tall, but there is room to don a vacc suit in the compartment. The chassis is too small for an air lock, so the compartment must be de-pressurised to enter or exit.
Also, the chassis can be used as a basis for civilian vehicles, and there is an after market for refurbished models. Various ATV-like vehicles can be purchased based on this type of chassis, which can be fitted in an air/raft bay. Normally the bay must also be fitted with a crane or ramp system to embark the vehicle.
I have striker stats for these kicking around somewhere. Like most stuff done with Striker, the designs come out a bit heavier than one might expect, and there are some house rules for power plants not supported by the base rules. I can dig them out if interested.
Rover
A Rover is a 4x4 or 6x6 off-road vehicle that varies in size between a jeep and an off-road truck like the smaller models in the Mercedes Unimog family. These could be powered by a battery, internal combustion engine, air-breathing fuel cell or a small fusion power plant. Rovers are not normally armoured, although armour kits can be fitted. If actually purchased for off-road use, it's likely to be accessorised with a winch, earth moving tools and various other items.
A Rover is a vehicle that's large enough to carry a party around with their junk. Typically a rover is not pressurised and is too small to be a mobile habitat - you need a full size ATV for that. Rovers are not normally amphibious, although amphibious variants are produced (think something like a supacat or other bathtub ATV). If you need to sleep in the field then some sort of portable shelter - tents or pressure tents - can be carried as cargo.
If you intend to use it in non-breathable atmospheres then a version with a non air-breathing powerplant would be needed. If you're going to the expense of lugging it around in a starship then you can probably afford one with a fusion power plant, although battery or fuel-cell based systems can also be used in this type of environment.
Models designed for transport in a starship might be more expensive than a normal SUV, using aerospace grade materials like composites or exotic alloys to save weight. The roof is typically removable or maybe a cloth roof like an army land rover. You can fit non-pneumatic tires for operating in a vacuum. If operating while using vacc suits the roof will normally be left off and doors removed, giving an effect a bit like the moon buggy.
Most rovers would fit in an air/raft bay, typically about 2m wide and 3-5m long. A small one might go down to the size of a SWB land rover or even a jeep. One like this would take up 1.5-2t in a cargo bay and could be carried as a utility vehicle by a merchant such as a free trader.
As one could see, to be truly 'all terrain', there are many conflicting requirements to be juggled - hence the tendency for true ATVs to be somewhat larger.
Squad Carrier
A Squad carrier is a lightly armoured, mine-resistant military utility or scout vehicle. Again, coming in various sizes, typically 4x4 or 6x6, the squad carrier is normally somewhat amphibious and can be armed with a pintel or remote mounted weapon. Typically around 2-2.5m wide and 4-6m long (depending on the model) this will carry a crew of 2-3, plus some passengers and cargo. Larger models can carry an infantry squad, smaller ones a few grunts, maybe a single fire team. Armour is normally sufficient to resist small arms fire appropriate to the tech level.
Normally the hull is not pressurised, although NBC protection may be fitted. However ...
Variants of some 6x6 squad carrier chassis can be fitted with a pressurised crew compartment instead of the normal body. It's rather more cramped than an ATV, but you can sling enough hammocks for a party of 4-5 to sleep. It is somewhat taller than the squad carrier variants, nearly 3m tall, but there is room to don a vacc suit in the compartment. The chassis is too small for an air lock, so the compartment must be de-pressurised to enter or exit.
Also, the chassis can be used as a basis for civilian vehicles, and there is an after market for refurbished models. Various ATV-like vehicles can be purchased based on this type of chassis, which can be fitted in an air/raft bay. Normally the bay must also be fitted with a crane or ramp system to embark the vehicle.
I have striker stats for these kicking around somewhere. Like most stuff done with Striker, the designs come out a bit heavier than one might expect, and there are some house rules for power plants not supported by the base rules. I can dig them out if interested.
Condottiere
SOC-14 5K
The air/raft is a popular choice, since it's a great general purpose utility vehicle, but comparatively bloody expensive. I assume that it's easier to control than a helicopter, and is far superior to it, being able to go stratospheric. Taking the latest Mongoverse vehicle price list, probably the best bang for buck.
However, since space can be at a premium on a starship, I'll refer to a design I made in ShadowRun where the cheapest possible vehicle were dune buggies, and could be designed to be collapsible; the other one were autogyros.
However, since space can be at a premium on a starship, I'll refer to a design I made in ShadowRun where the cheapest possible vehicle were dune buggies, and could be designed to be collapsible; the other one were autogyros.
First off, before designing the vehicle family, have to figure out the mission and specification parameters.
Given the OP's conception of several days multimission cheap ground transport, I can see a baseline requirement-
The standard Type S of course is ubiquitous, but is highly limited in terms of both carry capacity and personnel.
We have a 4-ton air/raft bay and 3 ton cargo CT-wise to work with. I think the later editions have a little more more room, but not much.
So what I see there is a 3-4 ton minimalist vehicle, and a corresponding 3-4 ton 'base package' that the Scout ship dumps with the vehicle and crew, then goes off to either be scarce and not scare off whatever is being studied or do a separate exploration.
On average the Type S isn't going to double bunk often, so I see 2 on the mission, 2 on the ship. So I would design the small vehicle for that assumption, possibly more accomodations with the base package.
I did a preliminary design study on this form factor with my fave easy vehicle designer, the MgT2 Vehicle handbook, and ran up against serious limitations with the space requirements for an airlock and life support. Not much more you can cram onto the mini-ATV, you end up choosing between galleys, freshers, bunks/staterooms, and any kind of useful cargo space.
Giving the miniATV environmental capability will cost a pretty penny under that system, Cr40000 for hostile environments (includes NBC type protection, sealing, 500 Rads protection, heat/cold etc.) and Cr80000 for vacuum capability (inclusive) for a 4-ton version. Corrosive and insidious costs more.
If the hostile requirement is not standard, you can put in what I call a comfort package, ditch the airlock and life support and you can cram in a good minimal sustained RV style galley/fresher/bunk/cargo setup.
The focus for the mission is likely that 3-4 ton base package. It would have whatever accommodations the base mini-ATV can't pack, lab space, field analysis computers, specimen holding compartments, medical, etc.
Using some of the collapsible tent quarters from some of the equipment books could greatly extend housing space.
These base packages would be far cheaper to build and swap out then any of the cutter modules or other ship-based modular arrangements.
They could also be made to be on their own set of wheels or tracks, as a trailer, even powered. The Bandvagn comes to mind as an example.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bandvagn_206
But anyway you slice it, that setup isn't going to last long, pretty cramped and not a lot of room for wide-ranging mission packages. I see that as more study one area/execute rescue/specimen capture for no more then two weeks.
Given the OP's conception of several days multimission cheap ground transport, I can see a baseline requirement-
- 1000 km range, minimum
- Stealth enough to be quiet so as not to alert first contact locals or spook local fauna
- Armor enough to deal with animals and lightly armed locals (rifles up to lasers, maybe not RAM-GLs)
- Up to Hostile enviornment levels, possibly vacuum- Corrosive and Insidious atmospheres take special handling and would be a limited reserve of equipment for special expeditions and thus not a standard line of vehicles
The standard Type S of course is ubiquitous, but is highly limited in terms of both carry capacity and personnel.
We have a 4-ton air/raft bay and 3 ton cargo CT-wise to work with. I think the later editions have a little more more room, but not much.
So what I see there is a 3-4 ton minimalist vehicle, and a corresponding 3-4 ton 'base package' that the Scout ship dumps with the vehicle and crew, then goes off to either be scarce and not scare off whatever is being studied or do a separate exploration.
On average the Type S isn't going to double bunk often, so I see 2 on the mission, 2 on the ship. So I would design the small vehicle for that assumption, possibly more accomodations with the base package.
I did a preliminary design study on this form factor with my fave easy vehicle designer, the MgT2 Vehicle handbook, and ran up against serious limitations with the space requirements for an airlock and life support. Not much more you can cram onto the mini-ATV, you end up choosing between galleys, freshers, bunks/staterooms, and any kind of useful cargo space.
Giving the miniATV environmental capability will cost a pretty penny under that system, Cr40000 for hostile environments (includes NBC type protection, sealing, 500 Rads protection, heat/cold etc.) and Cr80000 for vacuum capability (inclusive) for a 4-ton version. Corrosive and insidious costs more.
If the hostile requirement is not standard, you can put in what I call a comfort package, ditch the airlock and life support and you can cram in a good minimal sustained RV style galley/fresher/bunk/cargo setup.
The focus for the mission is likely that 3-4 ton base package. It would have whatever accommodations the base mini-ATV can't pack, lab space, field analysis computers, specimen holding compartments, medical, etc.
Using some of the collapsible tent quarters from some of the equipment books could greatly extend housing space.
These base packages would be far cheaper to build and swap out then any of the cutter modules or other ship-based modular arrangements.
They could also be made to be on their own set of wheels or tracks, as a trailer, even powered. The Bandvagn comes to mind as an example.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bandvagn_206
But anyway you slice it, that setup isn't going to last long, pretty cramped and not a lot of room for wide-ranging mission packages. I see that as more study one area/execute rescue/specimen capture for no more then two weeks.
So I think that while the Scout organization would invest in some of these, the more likely form factor is the 10-ton ATV.
Using the Vehicle Handbook, I can come up with the CT valuations of Cr30000 wheeled/Cr70000 tracked, but they are effectively tourist/adventure buses and not really equipped for multi-week frontier surveying.
So the ATV would need to get all that relatively expensive enviornment/life support feature, but would be more space efficient for living quarters, so the base packages can be oriented more towards strictly mission.
I would design for an assumption of 3-man teams, and retain the Type S 3-4 ton mission base package/trailer for mission tailoring and multi-week support.
The ship dumps off the ATV, team, and 1 or more base packages, then moves on to drop another ATV/team/base.
Which brings us to the ship- obviously Type S, even stripped to a Seeker and double bunking everyone, is not going to be an effective expeditionary transport.
I think there is such a ship- the A2 Far Trader.
It would need to be J-2 2-G standard as per the Type S, right in the Scout's wheelhouse for operational requirements.
Using the CT version (later ones have more cargo), we have 42 tons of space, which could carry 2-3 ATVs and 3 base packages minimum.
The stateroom situation can allow for 7 mission specialists, or more if double bunking, and we have 4 low berths for medical emergencies or a form of expeditionary frozen watch if it is a long range mission.
So, that's more like my visualization of the OP's expeditionary vehicles.
Please look it all over and comment, if it looks good I'll do up the standard scout vehicles.
A couple other notes of interest.
One of the really attractive options that version of Vehicle Handbook has is Electrostatic Armor. This provides a ahort-term sort of reactive armor effect against physical projectiles but not lasers, firing off a charge that messes up bullets and explosives. The really nice dual purpose aspect is that it also does an area effect damage of 6D to anything close to the vehicle- perfect for anti-megarhino charges or being overrun by natives.
A standard add-on I think I would do is a drone rack on the roof. A drone is again a perfect modular item to tack onto the mission and providing extended survey and/or defensive capabilities on the cheap.
Finally, looking through the book I found the airship section, which with a lifting body version can work out to some really cheap air capability. For a 10-ton space investment, you could get a 100 space blimp with about the same useful cab space as an ATV, much greater range and of course avoiding ground obstacles. There would be atmosphere limitations and be more vulnerable to weather or local birds that take a try at pecking at the gas envelope, but could be a cheap option perfect for some situations.
Using the Vehicle Handbook, I can come up with the CT valuations of Cr30000 wheeled/Cr70000 tracked, but they are effectively tourist/adventure buses and not really equipped for multi-week frontier surveying.
So the ATV would need to get all that relatively expensive enviornment/life support feature, but would be more space efficient for living quarters, so the base packages can be oriented more towards strictly mission.
I would design for an assumption of 3-man teams, and retain the Type S 3-4 ton mission base package/trailer for mission tailoring and multi-week support.
The ship dumps off the ATV, team, and 1 or more base packages, then moves on to drop another ATV/team/base.
Which brings us to the ship- obviously Type S, even stripped to a Seeker and double bunking everyone, is not going to be an effective expeditionary transport.
I think there is such a ship- the A2 Far Trader.
It would need to be J-2 2-G standard as per the Type S, right in the Scout's wheelhouse for operational requirements.
Using the CT version (later ones have more cargo), we have 42 tons of space, which could carry 2-3 ATVs and 3 base packages minimum.
The stateroom situation can allow for 7 mission specialists, or more if double bunking, and we have 4 low berths for medical emergencies or a form of expeditionary frozen watch if it is a long range mission.
So, that's more like my visualization of the OP's expeditionary vehicles.
Please look it all over and comment, if it looks good I'll do up the standard scout vehicles.
A couple other notes of interest.
One of the really attractive options that version of Vehicle Handbook has is Electrostatic Armor. This provides a ahort-term sort of reactive armor effect against physical projectiles but not lasers, firing off a charge that messes up bullets and explosives. The really nice dual purpose aspect is that it also does an area effect damage of 6D to anything close to the vehicle- perfect for anti-megarhino charges or being overrun by natives.
A standard add-on I think I would do is a drone rack on the roof. A drone is again a perfect modular item to tack onto the mission and providing extended survey and/or defensive capabilities on the cheap.
Finally, looking through the book I found the airship section, which with a lifting body version can work out to some really cheap air capability. For a 10-ton space investment, you could get a 100 space blimp with about the same useful cab space as an ATV, much greater range and of course avoiding ground obstacles. There would be atmosphere limitations and be more vulnerable to weather or local birds that take a try at pecking at the gas envelope, but could be a cheap option perfect for some situations.
Here is my attempt...
http://www.travellerrpg.com/CotI/Discuss/showthread.php?t=39728
http://www.travellerrpg.com/CotI/Discuss/showthread.php?t=39728
Okay OP, I'll do this in both CE and MgT2E, but I would like to know your parameters-
I have an interesting engine power option depending on TL and atmo.
- Wheeled or Tracked?
- Atmospheres protected against/operational in?
- Range?
- TL max?
I have an interesting engine power option depending on TL and atmo.
In the opening post, we have an air/raft being grounded by a damaged antigrav, leaving our Scout Shortstraw stranded. So I had to ask myself, what good is it to have a wheel vehicle back at the Scout ship when he's stranded so far away?
Then there's the requirements -
Low Tech
Easy to maintain
No Fusion Plants
No Antigrav
Wheels preferred (will accept track)
Some level of protection (have to get out of the suit for a while)
Cargo space
Small size
The first thing that comes to mind is some sort of lightweight, folding portable motorcycle like the Welbike, used by paratroopers and air crews during WW2 to get around once they were on the ground.
Another option would be the flat-pack truck - this is basically a small truck that comes in a large shipping box and assembles with hand tools (not unlike the new LIS charrot with the Some Assembly Required door sticker.) So you could have this in the back of the hanger as your emergency backup.
However - the Scout ship hanger has no ramps. This would have to be taken to the surface for assembly, and you would have to disassemble or abandon it after use.
But it wouldn't be difficult to modify this into a Technical.
Then there's the requirements -
Low Tech
Easy to maintain
No Fusion Plants
No Antigrav
Wheels preferred (will accept track)
Some level of protection (have to get out of the suit for a while)
Cargo space
Small size
The first thing that comes to mind is some sort of lightweight, folding portable motorcycle like the Welbike, used by paratroopers and air crews during WW2 to get around once they were on the ground.
- An electric motor and a sealed fuel cell, you've got something that runs nearly silently.
- Could be made as a two-seater with a simple rack that could be used to hold a survival pack for supplies, which could include a pressure tent.
- Minimal protection
- Small size
- Easy to maintain/upgrade
And of course, it could be used to ferry repair parts back.
Another option would be the flat-pack truck - this is basically a small truck that comes in a large shipping box and assembles with hand tools (not unlike the new LIS charrot with the Some Assembly Required door sticker.) So you could have this in the back of the hanger as your emergency backup.
However - the Scout ship hanger has no ramps. This would have to be taken to the surface for assembly, and you would have to disassemble or abandon it after use.
But it wouldn't be difficult to modify this into a Technical.
Last edited:
Enoki
SOC-14 1K
If a multi-passenger vehicle at minimal cost is what's required, I'd suggest something like the M 274 Mechanical Mule then.
Add a similar unpowered trailer to haul "stuff" as necessary.
It's compact, minimal, low cost, and very adaptable to various equipment loadouts. For poor environments, add a pressurized tent-like enclosure that fits over the platform.
Add a similar unpowered trailer to haul "stuff" as necessary.
It's compact, minimal, low cost, and very adaptable to various equipment loadouts. For poor environments, add a pressurized tent-like enclosure that fits over the platform.
If a multi-passenger vehicle at minimal cost is what's required, I'd suggest something like the M 274 Mechanical Mule then.
Add a similar unpowered trailer to haul "stuff" as necessary.
It's compact, minimal, low cost, and very adaptable to various equipment loadouts. For poor environments, add a pressurized tent-like enclosure that fits over the platform.
An inflatable shelter with soft airlock, definitely.
Or have panels mounted in the air/raft hanger that can be used to make a self-sealing shell
IMTU the Scouts have an A2 variant in their fleet as a standard asset. For narrative economy, it could be a canon A2, but IMTU it's different.
Basically, my variant is a cheap 200Td hull ("flattened sphere" but actually a prolate spheroid tailsitter) built to use components common to the rest of the Scout fleet. The Jump Drive and Power Plant B are interchangeable with that of the XBoat, and the Maneuver Drive is either one or two Size A drives for 1G or 2G respectively (but the installation takes 3Td regardless, the 2G configuration costs like a Size B drive, and you can't use three Size A maneuver drives to get 3G!). The bridge has a computer bay sized for a Model/4 (from XBoats) but is typically only equipped with a Model/1bis (from Scout/Couriers).
The cargo hold is configured to hold a fully-assembled XBoat Jump Drive and Power Plant, which makes it less than optimal for standard cargo containers. (The concept here is that the XBoat drives are modular and can be removed and replaced in the field, and that this is often easier than hauling the entire XBoat to a repair facility.) It carries an ATV-sized pressurized Air/Raft (8Td, 8 passengers, 8 mass tons of cargo) standard.
Actual installed equipment (maneuver drive size, computer, optional second turret) is at the referee's discretion. These ships often are repeatedly stripped to provide spares for other ships, and thus tend to accumulate components with quirks.
In-universe, something like this is implied by the IISS's logistics system, as a way to both utilize excess standard starship components and as a source of spares when needed.
Out-of-universe, it's a Type S for parties of 5-8 player characters, with a built-in (or rather, not yet installed) upgrade path available as a reward. The odd cargo bay configuration and the wasted space for upgrades are meant to hinder PCs from using the ship for commerce, and the single oversized Air/Raft discourages splitting up the party.
Last edited:
If the air/raft breaks down, the folks in the Scout Ship fly over and pick him up.
I used to put a bicycle in the back of my pick up truck when I took it to the shop. I'd drive over, drop off the truck, ride home, grab my motorcycle to get in and out of work, then bike over and pick up the truck.
When I serviced my motorcycle, I did a similar thing: head over, drop off the bicycle, lock it to the fence, drive home, grab the motorcycle, ride back, ride the bicycle, rinse and repeat.
Other than that, I never had an auxiliary form of transportation.
Trying to imaging one of those little bikes, or that car navigating anything more rugged than a graded fire road seems to be a bit of a stretch.
If the entire crew is needed, send the Scout ship. If not, leave the Pilot behind, head on out, and if a mishap occurs, bring the Scout Ship in for support.
And if the local law levels prevent the Scout ship, then call 911 and send the local Search and Rescue.
I used to put a bicycle in the back of my pick up truck when I took it to the shop. I'd drive over, drop off the truck, ride home, grab my motorcycle to get in and out of work, then bike over and pick up the truck.
When I serviced my motorcycle, I did a similar thing: head over, drop off the bicycle, lock it to the fence, drive home, grab the motorcycle, ride back, ride the bicycle, rinse and repeat.
Other than that, I never had an auxiliary form of transportation.
Trying to imaging one of those little bikes, or that car navigating anything more rugged than a graded fire road seems to be a bit of a stretch.
If the entire crew is needed, send the Scout ship. If not, leave the Pilot behind, head on out, and if a mishap occurs, bring the Scout Ship in for support.
And if the local law levels prevent the Scout ship, then call 911 and send the local Search and Rescue.
Similar threads
