Dice

[Icosahedron]

I'm guessing there may be some apocryphal tales here, and maybe some snake-oil salesmanship, too. With today's machining techniques, the surface you're rolling on is probably more uneven than the rounded edges of your dice. I'd guess the reason gambling dice have sharp edges is to stop them quicker, saving time and getting more rolls (money) in per night. IMHO, of course.

 

[sabredog]

I'm guessing there may be some apocryphal tales here, and maybe some snake-oil salesmanship, too. With today's machining techniques, the surface you're rolling on is probably more uneven than the rounded edges of your dice. I'd guess the reason gambling dice have sharp edges is to stop them quicker, saving time and getting more rolls (money) in per night. IMHO, of course.

I agree with the salesmanship part...the pitch on the Gamescience dice is pretty pushy for just dice. I tend to buy dice for their weight and feel. Color if they are black or white so I can give one color to the players and one set for me and tell them all apart. And then go blind painting the pips on the 6-siders red because I'm such a Traveller fanboy. Which reminds me, the Gamescience dice feel too light and cheap to me. Like the ones I got with Metamorphosis Alpha that chipped and cracked until my 20-sider looked like a ping pong ball.

But after a quick Googling on sharp-sided dice I got this from (the admittedly dubious at times) WIkipedia:

"Precision dice

Precision backgammon dice are also made with the pips filled in as with casino dice. While casino dice are noticeably larger than common dice, with sharp edges and corners, precision backgammon dice tend to be slightly smaller. Their corners and edges are rounded to allow better movement inside the dice cup and to stop chaotic rolls from damaging the playing surface."

I rest my case with applause from the jury.

 

[sabredog]

Some of my boys - which I also don't carry around in a goofy little bag like a D&D geek. They rattle around in my old Striker box like a proper Traveller geek.

Have had them for years and they never roll enough 5 and 6's when I want them to, nor do they ever roll low unless I'm generating a character.

Erm....maybe they do have something wrong with them...

No, I think there's just some dice-envy her from HG_B because I have hematite dice that dented my table and get +5 damage if I through them at a sleeping player. Nyah, nyah!

 

[Gatsby]

"Precision dice

Precision backgammon dice are also made with the pips filled in as with casino dice. While casino dice are noticeably larger than common dice, with sharp edges and corners, precision backgammon dice tend to be slightly smaller. Their corners and edges are rounded to allow better movement inside the dice cup and to stop chaotic rolls from damaging the playing surface."

I rest my case with applause from the jury.

The keyword is 'Precision'. Mr. Lou also states in the videos that one can round a corner in a precision way. The trick is to keep symmetrical..that whole center of gravity thing. Tumblers are the more often used process (as oppossed to grinding) and, obviously, cannot produce symmetry along the edge or (in other cases) in depth. This WILL effect the rolls, but not in a large percentage way. However, it will have an effect.

Backgammon dice HAVE to sacrifice some precision for 'surface protection', as most backgammon boards/cups are cloth material surface and the sharp edges will cut. Again, not a lot but over time.

 

[HG_B]

No, I think there's just some dice-envy her from HG_B because I have hematite dice that dented my table and get +5 damage if I through them at a sleeping player. Nyah, nyah!

No doubt! If they are too hard on your furniture, send them my way.

 

[kafka47]

You feel bad...because you game with d6 for Traveller and they are the most common dice on the planet...and if they were for Conan (d20s) then they are second most common dice on the planet. Dice is just the accessory that makes couture for our games...so like any indulgence...there is the guilt period...you just need to start gaming like mad with then the guilt will pass, as then you will realize that it is not merely a fashion statement but something practical...until the next time...

 

[dean]

I'm guessing there may be some apocryphal tales here, and maybe some snake-oil salesmanship, too. With today's machining techniques, the surface you're rolling on is probably more uneven than the rounded edges of your dice. I'd guess the reason gambling dice have sharp edges is to stop them quicker, saving time and getting more rolls (money) in per night. IMHO, of course.

No one machines polyhedral dice. Except maybe those people who make the dice outta hematite and stuff - but I have a set of those, and the faces are noticeably irregular, so you know that you aren't getting "equal access to all the faces".

The vast majority are made in molds like every thing else plastic.

 

[Gatsby]

No one machines polyhedral dice. Except maybe those people who make the dice outta hematite and stuff - but I have a set of those, and the faces are noticeably irregular, so you know that you aren't getting "equal access to all the faces".

The vast majority are made in molds like every thing else plastic.

But that's the thing with Lou....he goes with that on polyhedral. Seems to have a measurable point.

So it seems.

(I know...I am starting to sound like a planted salesperson....nope...I am not....just talkin' dice)

 

[dean]

But that's the thing with Lou....he goes with that on polyhedral. Seems to have a measurable point.

So it seems.

(I know...I am starting to sound like a planted salesperson....nope...I am not....just talkin' dice)

Oh, I agree with everything Lou says in his video, without the excessive snake oil. Dice that have been tumbled cannot possibly be "fair" because the edges are (prematurely) unevenly worn, so therefore the faces themselves are of unequal surface area individually, and that results in uneven distribution of the resulting numbers.

I have a set of Lou's dice and they are the longest lasting dice I have owned; the cheap ones you'll replace 3 times (if you understand that the chipped and rounded edges DO affect the outcomes of the rolls) before Gamescience dice wear out to any noticeable degree. My original D&D box set dice looked like crap inside a year of owning them.

Lou's dice are still molded. He just uses plastics that are very hard, have good wear properties, and don't suffer as much from that "heat shrink" he illustrated with those d30 (which suffered disproportionately because of their large size (volume)).

 

[saundby]

For myself, I test my dice. I do a few hundred rolls on each, with a program on my HP-41CX to speed up tracking results and crunching the data.

Even my old, worn D&D Basic Set dice are as random as can be measured. The ones that have a preference are visibly deformed. I have two old 20-siders that have bulged sides they don't like to stop on (not kept in the dice bag, of course) and a set of acrylic 6-siders with some sprue on one edge. Others like these have become perfectly random after the sprue was trimmed.

The only other lack of randomness I've run into was a 12 sider that was markedly denser on one side than the other (you could feel it in your palm, the bias showed within a few rolls) and some wooden 6-siders, also easily noticable both in hand and after a few rolls.

For all others, round edges or sharp, I've run several hundred dice through several hundred test rolls apiece over the years and not found anything sufficiently biased to show it in 250 rolls or more (much more, depending on how many sides it has.)

There is far more to what happens in the hand and on the table than to the shape of the dice's edges, IMO.

There is this, though. I used to do sleight of hand tricks with dice for fun. I'd roll numbers on command, or sequences, that sort of thing (with a wall bounce and the dice turning over on the table--not just sliding.) I used do sort of a Scarne trick routine with dice and cards.

It's a bit harder to control dice with sharp edges, especially on felt. They tend to grab at the corners and be a bit more unpredictable. Still, a good mechanic can make them do what they want. Part of the pit crew's job at a casino is to watch for mechanics. With the sharp edges, it's easier to see because it takes more care in the throw than round edged dice under the same circumstances.

So my guess is that that, and the impression the marks have that filled/printed pips and square edges makes the game more fair, drives what the casinos use.

Part of the reason dice are so widely used as randomizers is that even mediocre ones do a darn good job of being random when used fairly.

Speciality dice may be all they're cracked up to be, but to me it's like putting rollers on cam followers on an engine that runs well already. *shrug*

 

[spinwardpirate]

They are the tools of our trade. Where would be be without them?!?! I've been buying dice since the 70s, and I while I'm alive I won't stop. It seems like whenever I start a new campaign of something, I like to buy a new set of dice. Not that I stop using the old sets... though actually, I can say I've stopped using polys from the 70s sometime during the 90s...

 

[Finarvyn]

Those official Trveller dice were crap; the paper numbers glued to the sides fade.

I bought a cool set of poly dice that were all black but had white spots, so it looked like a starfield. Sadly, what I should have looked for is a brick of black dice, since who uses poly dice for Traveller? :-(

whenever I start a new campaign of something, I like to buy a new set of dice. Not that I stop using the old sets...

I have the same problem (or quirk) in that I like to customize dice sets to each campaign. I was running a Warriors of Mars game and found some dice sort of Martian-soil colored. I ran a Gamma World game and found some strange glowy yellow-green dice.

 

[aramis]

I bought a cool set of poly dice that were all black but had white spots, so it looked like a starfield. Sadly, what I should have looked for is a brick of black dice, since who uses poly dice for Traveller? :-(

Anyone using T20, That's Who!

 

[BlackBat242]

Chessex has bricks of D6s in 12mm (36 per brick) and 16mm (12 per brick) in many colors & styles.

Check with a gaming store... they likely have a Chessex catalog and can special-order exactly what you want.

 

[Rraurgrimm]

*sighs quietly* Having lost two bags of dice during my gamer time already, there is not much left of the old guard of dice. One got stolen at a convention (including other things), the other one I must have left at the site thoughtlessly, convinced I had already packed it. The losses include the original MegaTraveller white dice, a black pair of dice with red numbers I used for Traveller a lot - and a set of GameScience dice. Getting them at times when stores selling RPGs over here were rare at best - was the hardest part.

I am quite fond of the Chessex dice I got at the Spiel fair in Essen - I especially like their steampunk design. Apart from that, I usually can't keep myself from purchasing one or two dice at a convention. I do use particular sets for specific games, somehow believing that some dice roll low while others do not (without empiric testing, of course). Yet I at least have no problems with offering my dice to other players or with players touching - or even using! - them

 

[Gray Lensman]

Raise your hand if you remember using a crayon to color in those cheap polyhedrals that came with that box set.

Not everyone at once, may cause a tornado :rofl:

 

[Finarvyn]

Raise your hand if you remember using a crayon to color in those cheap polyhedrals that came with that box set.

Not everyone at once, may cause a tornado :rofl:

I still keep my original D&D dice in a my first dice bag. I never used a crayon, I used a black sharpie instead. Well, I also needed a red pen for my d20's. They didn't start issuing crayons until later on...

I've got a whole bunch of those old soft-plastic dice ... a big bag of horrible, uninked, random gamescience dice that are worthless to me.

 

[Finarvyn]

Anyone using T20, That's Who!

Oops. Apologies for speaking without thinking it through.

I own T20 but haven't played it. I guess I was thihking about all of the other varieties of Traveller, none of which (as far as I can recall) use anything but d6's.

 

[aramis]

Oops. Apologies for speaking without thinking it through.

I own T20 but haven't played it. I guess I was thihking about all of the other varieties of Traveller, none of which (as far as I can recall) use anything but d6's.

TNE needs d20, d6, and an occasional d10, plus a d16 for aging.

 

[Icosahedron]

Raise your hand if you remember using a crayon to color in those cheap polyhedrals that came with that box set.

Not everyone at once, may cause a tornado :rofl:

I used paint - while I was painting miniatures.