Does Mongoose Traveller leave you cold?

[DaveChase]

Any good product that leads others to enjoy and want to play is the best

IF Mongoose Traveller brings in new players which in turn helps keep the game concept of Traveller alive. I say yes, please continue.

I had the same initial difficulty with BattleTech Players when trying to introduce MechWarrior: Darkage (Combat dial by WizKids, LLC) at conventions.

I would have to often remind them that they were the 5,000 and dying group. (A bit blunt but got their attention when needed.)
They had problems getting players to play when product was not always available or readily available for the new player to buy. Nothing like getting some one excited about a game that when they go out to purchase it in the store they are told: We don't carry that, That is out of print, Sorry you will have to special order it because its not that common.

They did not like the scale of the figures as compared to the old scale. Representation, I would say. Kind of like playing SFB with miniatures. If you did it to scale of the figures then you would need a basket ball court just to play on one board.

They did not like the paint jobs. Easy, repaint them to your choice. Official if you don't mess with the dial for official games, we encourage it. If you don't play the official game then you got a lot more figures to play with, modify and they don't weigh as much as the lead ones.

The point is the same about MgT. Get them hooked. Show them the depth of the history of the game. Show them how to create worlds, ships, scenarios.
Let them dream and make the play the game.

MgT is the same way as my example of BattleTech versus MechWarriorark Age.
Same universe, same concepts, some things are updated, some things are reprinted and somethings are just new.
But, nowhere in the MgT rules do I see this written
You MUST PLAY exactly as the rules are written.
I don't even see an organized play or tournament rules where you are required to play, generate or design exactly by the rules.

Just my opinon, professionally and personally.

Dave Chase

 

[rust]

The "can I do this?" sounds like a cop out to me. You're the ref, it's your game, you play it how you and your players like. Who cares if someone says "That's not how the OTU does it."

Yep, this is exactly what I often tell the would-be referees and adventure
authors when this problem comes up.

However, this does not change the fact that they very often see it as a
serious problem for them.

Just like a new D&D referee would most probably hesitate to put a city like
Waterdeep into the "wrong" part of the Forgotten Realms because he would
expect others to demand an explanation or justification for such a change
of the "official" setting, new Traveller referees are afraid of problems if they
- for example - use Terra as the Imperium's capital or move the Hiver home-
world to the Spinward Marches.
And they cannot be certain to avoid a "mistake" of that magnitude because
they do not know the OTU canon, and many German newcomers do not un-
derstand English good enough to research it.

Of course, once they have bought the game, they should be free to do with
it whatever they like - it is their game, and the game of their players, and
no one else should have any right to meddle in it.

But you only have to take a look at forums, fanzines and conventions to un-
derstand that there are always people who feel authorized to accuse others
of "having badwrongfun" and to understand why especially new referees and
players would very much like to avoid to become the target of such attacks.

 

[DaveChase]

....

But you only have to take a look at forums, fanzines and conventions to un-
derstand that there are always people who feel authorized to accuse others
of "having badwrongfun" and to understand why especially new referees and
players would very much like to avoid to become the target of such attacks.

Good point rust.

Maybe we need to spend more time with a positive thread/forum that offers help to those new players and especially GM/refrees.

I know that many people offer help when ever one asks for it. And many of us offer our opinions, but I wonder if there should be a thread or forum just for the new refree who has questions.
Maybe a sticky thread in one of the forum divsions that says
New Refree/Game Master? And you have questions. Post here for some help.

And a note to all the regulars (and anyone who reads that thread) post nicely and try to answer any questions that arise. If you can't be positive then don't post. You have been warned.

Anyway just my opinoin

Dave Chase

 

[Allensh]

I’m boycotting Mongoose Traveller until they make miniatures. Not real logical, but I’m sick of making due miniatures wise. With all the RPG material, that is available for Traveller, I want to see a commitment to making quality miniatures, then I will start buying new stuff.

I think someone else has the miniatures license at the moment, at least for ships

Allen

 

[Jamus]

some decent traveller minis would be nice. i would buy them.

 

[Imperial Planetologist]

First I don't think Free-Traders should have ranks in the same way that subsidized and commercial merchants would. I've always played it as Merchant being a commercial career and you're only a Free-Trader after you muster out (in B1, and I never liked B7, too complicated without good reason, the whole exams for promotion mess mostly).

Second I've long had Merchant Marine service as bit of colour for my own campaign. I even generated a couple Merchants with a term or two of Navy to represent it and service in various Frontier Wars. Sure it's not in the rules but it's historical and makes a great addition.

I'm all for referees personalizing their campaigns. I think EVERY game is an ATU ultimately . . . unless you play only the canon adventures and never deviate from the expected outcomes, I suppose.

That you had a merchant marine IYTU is fine, but for Mongoose to add one where none was before is a change to the OTU. As I said, it's this sort of thing that sounded like a brick off the rim as I read through it. It's not necessarily a bad thing - it's just a different thing, and one that conflicts with the canon I do use in my campaign (i.e., subbies as planetary naval auxiliaries, merchant academy grads holding naval reserve commissions).

So I say hats off to Mongoose on those two extrapolations. I wouldn't bat an eye at them as changes to the OTU.

And in this we disagree.

I would welcome them as finally catching up with my own house rules

I had the same reaction a couple of times, and in more than a few places I realized that my house rules are much, much better.

All modesty aside.

There are ranks, they lack titles. They do, however, provide benefits at ranks 1 and 3. (P.22)

Yes, I thought I made it clear that I was speaking about the titles specifically, but apparently I wasn't pinpoint precise enough for CotI. My mistake.

Further, With MGT, it's not explicit that the ranks provided are the imperial ranks, since the Imperial Setting is not the explicit "default" setting in the way it was in MT or TNE. This was intentional on their part.

I wasn't talking about MT or TNE; I was talking about CT . In book 1 the ranks provided aren't necessarily Imperial rank titles either, but in book 7, when they are presented with direct reference to the Imperium, free traders do in fact earn those rank titles.

So that makes it a change in MgT from the thirty years of OTU before it.

Merchant Marine is equivalent to CT/MT SS and Sector lines. . .

No, it's really not.

The Merchant Marine of MgT is defined as, ". . . one of the massive cargo haulers run by the Imperium or the mega-corporations" (p. 22). Nowhere in book 7 do we have cargo vessels run by the Imperium (other than Imperiallines, of course) nor is the term "merchant marine" applied to the megacorps or the sector or subsector lines. It's a new definition offered whole-cloth by Mongoose, and one which is an explicit reference to the OTU, btw.

So the MM ref is not anything particularly new.

I don't share your interpretation.

That's as far as I care to go with this. As I said, bottom line is the rules released by Mongoose are irrelevant to me, and I'm not going to waste more of my time debating their merits or lack thereof. I have a game that I enjoy, and MgT isn't it.

 

[Imperial Planetologist]

I think someone else has the miniatures license at the moment, at least for ships

MegaMinis is producing figures and Ad Astra is producing starships, including some kick-ass capital ships.

 

[Allensh]

MegaMinis is producing figures and Ad Astra is producing starships, including some kick-ass capital ships.

Yes, I have seen some of them and drooled over them a lot. I may have to progress to the buying stage soon.

Allen

 

[GypsyComet]

MegaMinis is producing figures and Ad Astra is producing starships, including some kick-ass capital ships.

MegaMinis is doing some stuff that is more generic SF, but haven't released anything under the Traveller flag in a year or more, now. Their "limited run" approach to the Traveller license is a huge pessimistic turn-off.

And their K'kree are uglier than the old 15mm Martian Metals versions, something I would not have thought possible.

Right now I'm concentrating on GZG 15mm SF stuff. GZG has a large and growing vehicle selection and lots of 15mm military and civilian types. With the possible exception of the walker tanks (and maybe the Jaffar and "alien hunters"), everything is Traveller appropriate (and I use the alien hunters as Aslan).

 

[hunter]

Surprised to hear you're around enough for it to bother you.

Oh look someone who thinks being a smartass to me is a bright idea, particularly given the circumstances.

Congratulations on becoming the first example. Take some time off and think about whether you want to post here again.

See you in 7 days if you decide to return.

Any other takers?

BTW, if folks are curious as to why I really don't post here anymore other than for Administration reasons, there is a great example, though by no means the only. Lets also throw in the constant sniping about "Traveller X sucks and Traveller Y is SOOO much better", not to mention the fact that some people cannot seem to rise above a 3rd grade level and think that calling their opponent "stoopid" is winning a debate...

That said, I take a fair share of the blame for that for allowing it to get to this level.

Well it stops. And you can help. Report these jackasses and if they continue their ways they will be gone. Permanently. I and the mods can't do it alone. You've got to help. You want a better CotI, help us get rid of the jerks who play these kind of games.

And if you take offense to anything I just said? Too bad. You are exactly the kind I want GONE from here.

You want to tell us how superior version X of Traveller is? There is a forum for just that. And it isn't the Traveller Y forum. Mods, if you see these kinds of posts intruding into the wrong forum, move them or delete them.

If all you want to do is whine about how much you don't like Traveller Z? Don't post or go somewhere else.

If you make ad hominem and personal attacks on others be ready to get banned.

You want to harass my moderators, who frankly have a thankless job, you'll find yourself banned as well. You have a problem with my moderators, report the post. I get a copy of EVERY reported post.

Again I ask those of you who don't do this crap, and that is the VAST majority of you, report these kinds of posts when you see them. Don't feed these assholes because that doesn't help. Ignore it, report it, and let us deal with it. We will.

And yes this is the *real* Hunter. I cannot believe there is some assinine theory going around that somehow I am not the same person typing this message that founded this company, created these forums, programmed GRiP and wrote the T20 rules. That has got to be about the most absurd conspiracy theory I've heard lately. Get real folks.

 

[spinwardpirate]

Am I missing something, is there something there in MGT to get excited about or is it just a rehash with a higher than we've ever seen price tag?

I wasn't sure if I'd like it or not. Thus far, I really do. But I should point out I'm a deck plan addict, so any product with even a single deck plan is going to get bonus points from yours truly.

 

[aramis]

FYI: Venting about moderator actions in-thread is thread crapping. The exploring of hunter's recent post should be done over in website issues, where it is on topic and not derailing the thread. Venting moved here

 

[Colonist4711]

Mongoose Traveller for me is a so-so thing. They have some great elements, mostly in character generation. But they also have some things I don't like (Weapons in Mercenary, Parts of the ship design system, Lack of weight/caliber/power consumption for many gears)

Overall they are better than CT in all aspects, better than MT in Character Generation and feel more Traveller than the TNE and GURPS variants

Overall they are worse than MT, TNE/FFS or GURPS when constructing gear and ships (and this includes HighGuard)

If one is new to Traveller AND wants printed material MGT seems to be the best buy without resorting to eBay etc.

If one is new and does not care about the "Print" aspect, getting the PDF's from another version is something that should at least be considered.

If one already has MT or TNE I can see little reason for buying MGT unless one likes to "KitBash" game systems and wants to mix the Mongoose Chargen with the Techbase/Construction systems of the other two systems

If one likes GURPS and can live with the different Techscale I can see little reason for buying MGT. CharGen in GURPS is "different but better if you like GURPS(1)", Ship/Gear construction is as fast as the MGT-system but more detailed, with more options(2)

(1) Not to mention that there are programs for CharGen in GURPS
(2) And there is software for that too

 

[nats]

Well I like it. Ive been waiting for Traveller to be released in a sorted format without all the loads of expansions etc. And this Mongoose version seeems to have pretty much clarified all of the classic game whilst also getting rid of much of the micromanagement. I would say it has now become the definitive version for me and I will enjoy getting to grips with it all over again.

 

[lengland9702]

Mgt

I recently got the MGT book on ebay for $28.00 (including shipping) which made the basic book a bit more affordable and a decent buy. If after looking through the book, I would not pay $40.00 for it. In my opinion MGT is "Classic Traveller" with a few minor changes! I already have the CT books: MGT just follows those rules and character generation for the most part without many changes; thus for me it isn't worth the cost. I will probably use it though as an extra copy for my Traveller games.

Larry

 

[Allensh]

I recently got the MGT book on ebay for $28.00 (including shipping) which made the basic book a bit more affordable and a decent buy. If after looking through the book, I would not pay $40.00 for it. In my opinion MGT is "Classic Traveller" with a few minor changes! I already have the CT books: MGT just follows those rules and character generation for the most part without many changes; thus for me it isn't worth the cost. I will probably use it though as an extra copy for my Traveller games.

Larry

while MGT is definitley derived from Classic Traveller, there actually are a number of changes, both small and large, from those rules. Character creation, while similar, is expanded by the use of events and mishaps; the combat system is somewhat different, where armor protects from damage rather than making you harder to hit, and the system seems a bit more streamlined to me. Those are just two examples. Of course, for me, the compatibility with CT is a definite bonus as it means I can use CT adventures with minimal conversion Your mileage may vary of course but I'm pretty happy with having a version of Traveller that is faithful to the original while also being updated in some ways, and of course which is actively being supported.

Allen

 

[Hemdian]

I remember when I first started playing Traveller. I was hungry for a SF game and so decided to give it a try. I bought the basic set, a couple of adventures, and JTAS 6 and 8. 2 months later issue 9 of JTAS appeared in my FLGS: the announcement of the start of the 5FW! And that got me hooked, the storyline. The OTU wasn't just a static background, its was a living, breathing, growing entity.

And that's what's missing (so far) with MGT. No storyline. Maybe its in the pipeline?

 

[aramis]

And that's what's missing (so far) with MGT. No storyline. Maybe its in the pipeline?

There has been no indication of that. Sadly.

 

[Allensh]

There has been no indication of that. Sadly.

Do we really want to have a metaplot? And hasn't this story already been done?

I wouldn't mind seeing a series of adventures that formed a linked campaign of some kind but I don't want to be hamstrung by "this is the official storyline- follow it or don't be supported". I prefer adventures that I could weave into a storyline rather than a storyline for which I HAVE to come up with adventures that fit.

I understand that a lot of people liked to read the story of the Third Imperium...and I would too if it were in book form. But that's the problem I have with a lot of "metaplot" games...they're great to read, not so great to play.

And all it takes is the cash to buy, say, the CT CD or the JTAS one and you could have that plot anyway.

Allen

 

[DaveChase]

I don't mind a large over the top level of story line. MegaPlot if you will. I do 'hate' it when you are playing/planning along in a world and the next book comes out and destroys the place you were playing in.

I love Pallidum games, but they have a habit of takiing both their fantasy and SciFi games and making changes along the way.

You are right, it is great to read but it disillusions so many that want to play it is hard to keep them interested.

I would not mind it so much if the supplement books for the new area would start at ground zero and move forward AND have enough material that you could play at the starting point or trace your own way foward in time to the current date.

Many times the MegaPlot, makes it were you have to accept that has happened and that is it. Other versions have tried to address this but very lightly. The always said to make a new character is the best way. I don't like that option very much when running a game (or even playing a game supplement.)

One thought I had that might help this 'move forward in timelines' is instead of just releasing a new MegaPlot supplement or edition that they (the company) instead has a webpage that builds up to said developments. (Digressing a bit with the next but to make a point only)

WizKids LLC did this for several of their game lines. It not only had stories of what was taking place but what might happen depending on who won what battle/scenario. It was of course extremely fluid because it was changing every month which I don't want to see in a Traveller game (Traveller takes place in an arm of the galaxy and commo is slow).
But, it would be nice to see a bit of story (preview) of upcoming OTU developments that are going to change the politics, where a war/conflict is going to (or possibly) take place at.

The JTAS did this nicely and for the time was very 'timely' to aid GM in creating issues in the OTU for their game.
I think a webpage/site (official) would be nice to see something similar were we can read if we want, speculate on what the outcome will/might be and then see what actually happens with the new supplement.
(similar things have been done/talked about in the past but I have not seen one like it officially for Traveller (R)

Dave Chase