Does Mongoose Traveller leave you cold?

[Commander Drax]

Agreed,

We need good artwork of the Vargr, that genuinely shows them as an uplifted, genetically engineered human/canine hybrid. Something that is quite literally frightening and imposing in its own right and not 'man's best friend' in a vacc suit.

 

[Carny]

Having come late to this, let me say that I do really enjoy MGT, so far.

For me, the pros include a really excellent, and fairly customizable to taste, char-gen system, good task and combat systems, and a solid, workable system for designing spacecraft. It's also true enough to Classic Traveller, one of my very first roleplaying loves in the late 70s, early 80s, to rev my engine. The trade rules, at least on reading, look like they'll be a fine thing to work with, with a bit of advance preparation.

The cons include no really good, unified system for designing things like vehicles or weapons and armor, in the mold of Striker, or FF&S. At least not yet. I also don't really appreciate some of the production value gaffes. A lot of the heavy weapons and vehicles in the Mercenary book seemed more like something belonging to an anime game than a Traveller scenario, with the heavy weapons seeming more like a desperate afterthought then anything truly thought out.

That said, Spinward Marches is a truly excellent book, and High Guard was also very nicely done, with the exception of too many deckplans that are too micro to be of use. I felt the pages burned for that purpose could have been better spent. 760 Patrons is full of useful adventure seeds, though its perhaps less useful as an in-game generator then it could be. Traders and Gunboats, while it has some very lovely ships, well worth using in a game, also burned far too much space on deck plans, in my opinion.

 

[rust]

That said, Spinward Marches is a truly excellent book, and High Guard was also very nicely done, with the exception of too many deckplans that are too micro to be of use. (...) Traders and Gunboats, while it has some very lovely ships, well worth using in a game, also burned far too much space on deck plans, in my opinion.

I have similar problems with Beltstrike. I was very pleased to read that it has
an equipment section of about 12 pages, because belting and mining equip-
ment is what I was looking for to add to my setting. However, it turned out
that 6 of these 12 pages were deckplans for a mining platform, with some of
the plans less than useful.

 

[Klaus]

Agreed,

We need good artwork of the Vargr, that genuinely shows them as an uplifted, genetically engineered human/canine hybrid. Something that is quite literally frightening and imposing in its own right and not 'man's best friend' in a vacc suit.

Every single picture of Vargr from the year dot has been exactly that. I totally agree with you, but if Mongoose did what you said a whole load of other fans would be up in arms complaining and starting flame wars.

To be honest, Mongoose should just forget about trying to please the old fans, because we find fault in the tiniest of things, and then magnify it out of all proportion. It's lose/lose, for them.

 

[mbrinkhues]

The Mongoose Stuff leaves me cold. The game mechanics are a useless and needless fall back to the dark ages of gaming and have massiv balancing problems. The Quality Control at Mongoose is lousy and despite claims does NOT improve (Beltstrike again has problems). And the universal approach is the final nail to the coffin.

Mongoose would have done better by using MegaTraveller or TNE rules and apply all errata instead of writing a new system. And the universal approach means that they have to compete against superior systems (GURPS, HERO, Fuzion...) while at the same time delivering a system that is less useful for Traveller than it could be.

 

[rust]

The Mongoose Stuff leaves me cold ...

No problem there, this leaves one more copy of the German version for me ...

 

[Supplement Four]

Agreed,

We need good artwork of the Vargr, that genuinely shows them as an uplifted, genetically engineered human/canine hybrid. Something that is quite literally frightening and imposing in its own right and not 'man's best friend' in a vacc suit.

Absolutely. Vargr are probably the most delicate of the main Traveller races. Draw them wrong, and they just look like the neighborhood stray walking on his hind legs.

But, draw them correctly, and you've got something that legitimizes their background and makes them quite believeable.

Early in my Traveller years I had a hard time with the Vargr, unable to "get into" walking doggies.

Then, I saw some artwork in some DGP materials, and that changed everything.

 

[mbrinkhues]

No problem there, this leaves one more copy of the German version for me ...

Since I wouldn't touch the third rate crap that runs under "german translation" anyway it actually didn't change anything. 13Mann delivers even worse stuff than FanPro.

 

[Commander Drax]

Early in my Traveller years I had a hard time with the Vargr, unable to "get into" walking doggies.

Then, I saw some artwork in some DGP materials, and that changed everything.

Bringing me back to my whole point, i.e. quality artworks enhances everything

 

[Commander Drax]

The Mongoose Stuff leaves me cold. The game mechanics are a useless and needless fall back to the dark ages of gaming and have massiv balancing problems. The Quality Control at Mongoose is lousy and despite claims does NOT improve (Beltstrike again has problems). And the universal approach is the final nail to the coffin.

Mongoose would have done better by using MegaTraveller or TNE rules and apply all errata instead of writing a new system. And the universal approach means that they have to compete against superior systems (GURPS, HERO, Fuzion...) while at the same time delivering a system that is less useful for Traveller than it could be.

Agreed, at least somebody is replying properly to the the thread starters question, i.e. does Mongoose Traveller leave you cold? I hope that mbrinkhues doesn't get the rabid army of mongoose maniacs trying to convert him to the crazy belief that Mongoose is great! when it so clearly isn't.

Welcome aboard Mbrinkhues you will need to get a taster to test your food prior to eating for the next few weeks, or at least until the Mongoose thought police forget about you...

 

[rust]

... the rabid army of mongoose maniacs ... the Mongoose thought police...

What thoughtful arguments ... :rofl:

 

[Supplement Four]

Bringing me back to my whole point, i.e. quality artworks enhances everything

Agreed.

A picture really can fire the imagination in ways text (and poor pics) can't.

Agreed, at least somebody is replying properly to the the thread starters question, i.e. does Mongoose Traveller leave you cold? I

Check up thread. I've said my peace on MGT.

Not only does it leave me cold, it leaves me frozen.

It's an opportunity lost, in my estimation.

 

[Colin]

Mongoose thought police is a little strong, I think.

That being said, I like MGT well enough. I would have done things differently, made it more modern rather than trying to cleave so close to it's CT roots.

Quality control is problematic, but that's been the case for nearly every version of Traveller. It's certainly not the worst of the lot.

I would prefer more, and better artwork. A LOT better. <shrug>

It doesn't leave me cold. Nor hot, either. The warm side of luke-warm, I guess.

 

[ThunderChilde]

Yeah, R.Talsorian's and the fan based sites that were inspired by the Chrome Book series for CyberPunk were very useful and illusrative, not to mention occasionally funny. Some other the fluff books for fasa's equivalent game that is escaping me at the moment were also very good.

As far as that goes, I frequently find my self reaching back to Masamune Shirow's Intron Depot and other books for how things look and work. I cannot state strongly enough how cool I find his works, and stories. Well that and some board members works, Cambrienne Moon and Crow's stuff for instance.

 

[rust]

Mongoose has announced its Central Supply Catalogue, about 200 pages of
equipment written by Martin J. Dougherty and Bryan Steele, for June 2009.
I really, really hope that this will include a lot of good and useful illustrations
of most of the items described there.

 

[Kilgs]

It would be neat if Mongoose (or any game company) would put out a book or CD with images and a brief background of the said image/picture. They don't have to go nuts and describe every little game detail. That would ruin the picture. But telling us about the item/planet/person and giving names of manufactures and such would be awesome.

Absolutely. Just flipping through Chapman's "Inspirational Art Thread" jumpstarts your brain like never before. I got about two dozen adventure ideas as I went over all those pictures.

"Okay. It's decided. I'm using that picture as a prop. Now... how?"

I loved the Chromebooks. Another game that did a good job was SLA Industries. They out out Karma which was designed the same way. It was in the format of an Operative magazine and had weapon reviews, letters to the editor, picture spreads etc.

Sort of a Gazetteer.

I wonder if a fan-made Traveller Aide Society e-mag written in that format would be cool. There is one (Stellar Reaches?) that writes a column about a world every issue in first-person.

 

[Commander Drax]

Absolutely. Just flipping through Chapman's "Inspirational Art Thread" jumpstarts your brain like never before. I got about two dozen adventure ideas as I went over all those pictures.

"Okay. It's decided. I'm using that picture as a prop. Now... how?"

I loved the Chromebooks. Another game that did a good job was SLA Industries. They out out Karma which was designed the same way. It was in the format of an Operative magazine and had weapon reviews, letters to the editor, picture spreads etc.

Sort of a Gazetteer.

I wonder if a fan-made Traveller Aide Society e-mag written in that format would be cool. There is one (Stellar Reaches?) that writes a column about a world every issue in first-person.

If they could do something along the lines of the Reformation Coalition Equipment Guide that would be great. Art focused on individual equipment is brilliant as it allows for that shared space of imagination (as pointed out by someone else in this thread). I do have some hope for the project however as MJD has a proven track record.

 

[Original_Carl]

Art in RPGs is overrated. If it's really good, I notice. If it's anything other, it detracts from the material.

I think I would have been happier if they had left most of the art out of MGT.

 

[aramis]

Art in RPGs is overrated. If it's really good, I notice. If it's anything other, it detracts from the material.

I think I would have been happier if they had left most of the art out of MGT.

It should be telling that I agree when I mention that I prefer to use the draft 23 manuscript (nigh identical to 1st published draft) when runing T20 than the hardback.

 

[spinwardpirate]

Mongoose has announced its Central Supply Catalogue, about 200 pages of
equipment written by Martin J. Dougherty and Bryan Steele, for June 2009.
I really, really hope that this will include a lot of good and useful illustrations
of most of the items described there.

Hopefully.
In order to meet my requirements, it will have to be on a par with any of the Twilight:2000 vehicle or equipment guides, the 2300AD guides, or Emporer's Arsenal from T4. (I'm not a big fan of T4, but I really, really like that book.)