CT Only: Efficiently Written

[tbeard1999]

Howdy all; it's been awhile. I thought y'all might be interested in a little experiment I just ran. I cropped the FFE PDFs of Books 1-3 and printed them four to a page, front and back. By cropping the top and bottom margins of each page, I wound up with a dual column formatted book.

Total number of pages - 36. Now, the font size is a little small (though very readable). But still - that's an ENTIRE set of rules that let you generate characters, build planets, populate them with critters, build and fight starships, engage in interstellar trade, handle psionics and buy all kinds of gear. If I had the rules as a Word document and could reformat them, I'd make the type a bit larger, so the total size might be 45 pages.

45 pages.

Someone remind me why EVERY RPG these days has hundreds (and hundreds) of pages of rules.

 

[Gray Lensman]

So they cane charge more for thicker books of course:rofl:

 

[Spinward Scout]

You can copy and paste the text into a Word document. That might be time-prohibitive, tho.

 

[Timerover51]

Howdy all; it's been awhile. I thought y'all might be interested in a little experiment I just ran. I cropped the FFE PDFs of Books 1-3 and printed them four to a page, front and back. By cropping the top and bottom margins of each page, I wound up with a dual column formatted book.

Total number of pages - 36. Now, the font size is a little small (though very readable). But still - that's an ENTIRE set of rules that let you generate characters, build planets, populate them with critters, build and fight starships, engage in interstellar trade, handle psionics and buy all kinds of gear. If I had the rules as a Word document and could reformat them, I'd make the type a bit larger, so the total size might be 45 pages.

45 pages.

Someone remind me why EVERY RPG these days has hundreds (and hundreds) of pages of rules.

That is acceptable for personal use, but I would strongly recommend that you do not try to post your document anywhere else.

 

[tbeard1999]

That is acceptable for personal use, but I would strongly recommend that you do not try to post your document anywhere else.

Not sure what you’re talking about. I *printed* the document (which I purchased from FFE) and never said anything about posting anything.

My point was that if the font size were increased, the total page count would be around 45. Still tiny by modern standards.

 

[Ulsyus]

Someone remind me why EVERY RPG these days has hundreds (and hundreds) of pages of rules.

Nice job reformatting it into something easy to use. Rob, did you notice?

Why does everyone produce whopping great lumps of dead tree nowdays? Because they're trying to do so much, simulate so much, account for such a wide array of what's possible in a universe.

It all comes down to the level of granularity that they want.

I reckon that the more work a game writer does in providing rule system options the less work there is for a ref to come up with their own system on the fly.

 

[Timerover51]

Not sure what you’re talking about. I *printed* the document (which I purchased from FFE) and never said anything about posting anything.

My point was that if the font size were increased, the total page count would be around 45. Still tiny by modern standards.

What I mean is that the material in the Classic books is still under Marc Miller's copyright control. What you did with the copyrighted material was okay for strictly personal use, as long as your also own the copyright documents. Any additional distribution, either online or to players in your games would constitute copyright infringement.

As for the original size, that would be partly dictated by what works best for the printer of the books. The LBBs are basically printed on 8.5 by 11 inch paper folded sideways, with the margins set by what allows for adequate printing space, and the font size set for easy reading. I assume that you printed the reformatted pages on 8.5 by 11 inch paper, and with four former pages per page. To my older eyes, that would be borderline readable. For you, evidently that is not the case. As I get older, I prefer the larger size font for the easiest possible reading.

 

[whartung]

Why does everyone produce whopping great lumps of dead tree nowdays? Because they're trying to do so much, simulate so much, account for such a wide array of what's possible in a universe.

Also because people like pictures, and tables, and charts.

They also don't like their rules laid out like newspapers with tiny fonts and 1/4" margins.

If it were for the charts, and such, I'd prefer the ebook formats that are basically limited HTML that mostly abandon formatting and let us meatspace humans set things like font's and what not.

 

[tbeard1999]

Also because people like pictures, and tables, and charts.

They also don't like their rules laid out like newspapers with tiny fonts and 1/4" margins.

If it were for the charts, and such, I'd prefer the ebook formats that are basically limited HTML that mostly abandon formatting and let us meatspace humans set things like font's and what not.

The 3 original little black books were laid out with plenty of white space and in a perfectly readable typeface size, took up about 150 5.5 x 8.5 pages. Eliminating redundant pages, this could easily be reformatted into 70 or so letter sized pages. The rather bloated Traveller Book did it in about 115 pages. Starter Traveller did it in 68 pages of rules and 28 pages of charts. (I would add the approximately 8 letter sized pages of additional character types and archaic missile weapons from Supplement 4).

I don't think that this changes my question - why does the typical RPG these days consist of 1 or more 256 page books?

 

[Bob Weaver]

Why does everyone produce whopping great lumps of dead tree nowdays? Because they're trying to do so much, simulate so much, account for such a wide array of what's possible in a universe.

And players expect to be told how to do all of that, explicitly. The mindset of "If it isn't in the rule book I can't do it" is as old as the hobby, if I am correctly informed.

And publishers make money by selling books, so it is in their interest to keep producing more rules & supplements.

Cheers,
Bob W

 

[Timerover51]

Also because people like pictures, and tables, and charts.

They also don't like their rules laid out like newspapers with tiny fonts and 1/4" margins.

If it were for the charts, and such, I'd prefer the ebook formats that are basically limited HTML that mostly abandon formatting and let us meatspace humans set things like font's and what not.

Actually, if I am doing any copy and paste layouts of computer files, I am going to 14 point font simply to make it easier on my eyes. I do like nicely laid out and easily readable charters in hard copy. And I love really good graphics.

 

[atpollard]

Actually, if I am doing any copy and paste layouts of computer files, I am going to 14 point font simply to make it easier on my eyes. I do like nicely laid out and easily readable charters in hard copy. And I love really good graphics.

I like 12 point Aerial for my own work, so I'm right there with you on liking larger fonts.

 

[tbeard1999]

I like 12 point Aerial for my own work, so I'm right there with you on liking larger fonts.

For grins, I printed out some of the LBB pages on letter sized paper, with the printer set to fit the image to the page. The result is a very easy to read page. And since GDW always did a great job with layouts, the pages are very inviting. Of course, that makes the LBB 1-3 set around 150 pages (75 sheets front and back). It can still fit in a 1/2” binder. Also, there’s plenty of room to annotate each page.

 

[whartung]

Actually, if I am doing any copy and paste layouts of computer files, I am going to 14 point font simply to make it easier on my eyes. I do like nicely laid out and easily readable charters in hard copy. And I love really good graphics.

The beauty of an ebook is that you get to format it as you like, and I get to format it as I like, from the same source material.

In contrast to a PDF, where at best i can do is zoom on text blocks. Useable, but not ideal.

 

[Timerover51]

The beauty of an ebook is that you get to format it as you like, and I get to format it as I like, from the same source material.

In contrast to a PDF, where at best i can do is zoom on text blocks. Useable, but not ideal.

My older eyes are getting tired after working on the computer for a while. That does not occur with good hard copy. As for PDF files, if I decide to reformat them, I do. Right now, I am extracting data from the German Navy War Diaries from World War 2 that were translated by the U.S. Office of Naval Intelligence. I am afraid that those are not available as an ebook.

 

[tbeard1999]

The beauty of an ebook is that you get to format it as you like, and I get to format it as I like, from the same source material.

In contrast to a PDF, where at best i can do is zoom on text blocks. Useable, but not ideal.

Where practicable, I almost always prefer epub or mobi format to PDF for anything that I'm going to read. I like being able to select the text color, size and background color.

That said, I find that tables and images aren't handled very well. I don't know if that's a limit of the format or lack of skill among those who create such works. This makes the epub/mobi/whatever format sub-optimum for most game materials.

My own experiments with an ebook version of A Fistful of TOWs were unsuccessful.

Also, I often want to print parts of game books. Most ebook readers lack that ability.

So gaming materials are probably better handled with PDF.

 

[tbeard1999]

My older eyes are getting tired after working on the computer for a while. That does not occur with good hard copy. As for PDF files, if I decide to reformat them, I do. Right now, I am extracting data from the German Navy War Diaries from World War 2 that were translated by the U.S. Office of Naval Intelligence. I am afraid that those are not available as an ebook.

I'm almost exclusively an electronic book consumer. But for things that I have to *study* (like game rules), I find that I still like paper. (For my office, I bought a badass copier/printer that cranks out double sided prints at high speed and even three hole punches them. That makes it much easier to print game PDFs...something my staff are coming to suspect. Ah well, rank hath its privileges.)

 

[Ulsyus]

I'm almost exclusively an electronic book consumer. But for things that I have to *study* (like game rules), I find that I still like paper. (For my office, I bought a badass copier/printer that cranks out double sided prints at high speed and even three hole punches them. That makes it much easier to print game PDFs...something my staff are coming to suspect. Ah well, rank hath its privileges.)

Just think of it as good mental health maintenance so that you're able to perform at peak efficiency at work IOT maximise outputs/outcomes. All of which makes the printer, and it's use as you described, a great investment...

 

[tbeard1999]

Just think of it as good mental health maintenance so that you're able to perform at peak efficiency at work IOT maximise outputs/outcomes. All of which makes the printer, and it's use as you described, a great investment...

You know, my firm just might need a VP of Rationalization...

 

[estar]

I don't think that this changes my question - why does the typical RPG these days consist of 1 or more 256 page books?

True of some but not all. For D&D 5th edition is because most of it list of stuff. Monsters, spells, character options etc. When you cut that out like Wizards did the free basic books then the page count drops by a lot.

Think of it if Classic Traveller and adding Supplement 1, 2, and 3 folded in. The Traveller Book as a little of that with the extra material that gives a subsector, an adventures, and some fleshed out examples. Which is why it weighed in at 100+ pages instead of the 70 pages you would think by combining book 1 to 3.

Having said that, some companies and authors don't know how to write tersely. I own Adventures in Middle Earth and while it excellent the players prefer my cheat sheets because man Cublicle 7 use two or three sentences where one will do.

Again if a RPG consists mostly of lists of stuff and the author doesn't take care to write tersely then the page count is going to bloat considerably.