General Electronics and Traveller

[giant.robot]

I think the first thing to think about is Travellers flying around the galaxy in 100-ton commercial ships for three millennia. There's no way that is possible without small ship logistics being a long solved problem.

As for those solutions, modern spaceflight provides a pretty good model I think. The main computer system on the ISS is built around networks of modular devices. The data bus they sit on is redundant and many of the devices are multiply redundant.

The main computing units are called a Multiplexer/DeMultiplexer (MDM) which is composed of several circuit boards plugged into a backplane. The MDM chassis has power, the I/O controller (32MHz 386SXs with 8MB of RAM ), and other bits. Different functionality is provided by different circuit cards which can be replaced in orbit by ISS astronauts. MDMs process data from sensors and control things like the motors to rotate the solar panel arrays.

Each MDM's controller runs a real-time OS and loads a program/firmware for whatever task it is doing. Because the MDMs are standardized and the expansion cards are replaceable, an astronaut can pull an MDM and replace all the cards with spares and stick it back in place. In a pinch an MDM can be reconfigured so it can replace a unit attached to a different subsystem.

Applied to a Type-S, major ship subsystems would be attached to MDMs all networked to control MDMs. Those can run scheduled/batched jobs and pull in all the sensor data and write it to mass storage. These subsystem controllers and their spares are just part of the mass for each subsystem. The ship's computer would be a more traditional computer running whatever, it might be able to access all the MDMs but it doesn't necessarily have to run them as each have their own control programs.

Again, this setup being in existence for millennia means issues of software compatibility is a long solved problem. Processors of the far future may just natively support dozens of instruction architectures or software is written to bytecode (a la Java) so every processor vendor just includes a low level interpreter(s). Processors of the far future might be more like FPGAs and automagically reconfigure themselves to run whatever architecture the program is compiled for.

As for crew watches, most systems on a ship will be automated with the crew person on watch being the executive authority if things go wrong. While most systems will self-diagnose it would take a human to replace a part. In a full emergency the rest of the crew would be woken up to handle the problem. The one on watch is basically overseeing the automated systems.

 

[wellis]

Do you think you might have devices able to do multiple functions, instead of a single device doing a single function, when going off planet?

Kind of like how a smartphone can be a calculator, computer, phone, etc, instead of having to carry a a seperate calculator, phone, and computer along with you.

Like this for example, from 50 Wonders of the Reticulan Empire:

Multiscanner: The standard Reticulan multiscanner is a TL13 handheld device which combines the following detectors (see CE Chapter 4) into a single, hand-held instrument: Magnetic Compass, Radiation Detector, Metal Detector, Inertial Locator, and Electromagnetic Probe. It also includes a wide range of medical-scientific scanners capable of basic medical investigation and examination of biological and chemical samples. The multiscanner includes its own holographic projector and wireless modem. Reticulans typically use the multiscanner in conjunction with their CompuOrb. Note that contrary to 20th century Terran urban myths and 23rd century Terran "Greysploitation" ⌧ography, Reticulan experimentation on abductees uses multiscanners rather than primitive tools such as orifice probes. Interpreting the results uses the appropriate Science skill or the Comms skill.

 

[kilemall]

Again, this setup being in existence for millennia means issues of software compatibility is a long solved problem. Processors of the far future may just natively support dozens of instruction architectures or software is written to bytecode (a la Java) so every processor vendor just includes a low level interpreter(s). Processors of the far future might be more like FPGAs and automagically reconfigure themselves to run whatever architecture the program is compiled for.

Well that certainly explains how a MacBook hosted and delivered virus can bring down a centralized multi-craft shield system!

 

[flykiller]

People also play games with what it teeth and what is tail. Are the teeth the guys actually firing at the enemy or the division that includes him and all of the supporting cast?

it helps to think of it not as tooth/tail but as one integrated system.

 

[nobby-w]

Do you think you might have devices able to do multiple functions, instead of a single device doing a single function, when going off planet?

Kind of like how a smartphone can be a calculator, computer, phone, etc, instead of having to carry a a seperate calculator, phone, and computer along with you.

Like this for example, from 50 Wonders of the Reticulan Empire:

A computer module could be fairly generic in much the way that a PC is generic, and there were more or less generic aerospace/military computers produced that were used in various roles (for example the IBM AP101). You can plug whatever cards you want into it to task it for some specific application. The rest is software and integration testing for flight certification.

A mature industry can be expected to develop standards, and aerospace is really no exception. We could see common interface standards for computer and networking hardware, common protocols and data formats for sensors or control information, common and widely used software frameworks for integrating avionics and other electronic packages.

While the various avionics computer systems might have specialised hardware, it's certainly possible that some components could be standardised. It might help with costs, multi-sourcing parts and potentially having alternative parts that could be swapped in or upgraded. Standardising computer parts where possible also helps to reduce inventory. This also means that common systems might have an after-market of third party parts and upgrades.

The economics of field repairing depend on the value of the parts or systems. If replacement parts are cheap (either financially or as logistics) then there will be little incentive to repair. Where the parts are expensive then repairing in the field becomes a lot more interesting.

Hand soldering surface mount components is fiddly (although I had a friend with the manual dexterity to do it) but a small fabber robot could have this capability. ICs are not normally feasible to repair but are small enough that stocks of spares would be relatively compact if it were possible to repair PCBs with such a robot.

 

[wellis]

Well that certainly explains how a MacBook hosted and delivered virus can bring down a centralized multi-craft shield system!

But isn't that power only available to Jeff Goldblum?

 

[Condottiere]

Viruses uh.... find a way.

 

[hiro]

My view on this most aligns with @giant.robot and @nobby-w

The trouble is, Traveller is "historical SF". The debate is whether to fold into the game what we've learnt in the years since it's precedents were set or not.

By the nature of the game, it grossly simplifies what it takes to put a craft into space. Both as a function of the fact that it's a game we're playing and that the normalcy of being in space is millennia old.

That said, even in the far future, I don't see the quality required to keep a craft in space for a prolonged period of time bears much resemblance to the touch screen on a 21st century car. If something fails in space, you're up the creek without a paddle. The environment: hard vacuum, radiation and wild swings in temperature is most unforgiving. And space is big, you thought the walk to the chemist was far but that's peanuts... You don't wanna be stranded out there.

Now OK, yes, your millennia old technology will have redundancy and the rest but I'm not convinced that will, in part, take the form of a bucket of spares and a few screw drivers. Most current day satellites are built to perform their tasks for anything between a few years and a few decades with no maintenance as, with a few noticeable exceptions, (looking at you Hubble) the option to service them just doesn't exist. If something goes wrong and you can't rework the thing remotely (Kepler) to bypass the problem, it is many millions down the pan. If you extrapolate that to the far future, it seems possible to me that you simply don't repair things in space, you build them to last and have a back up for when they don't. Your monthly/annual servicing is running deep diagnostics and looking for potential failures, replacing things battered by life in space and topping up the coffee machine :coffeegulp: That may also open you up to planned obsolesence - your favourite mega corp builds things to last just long enough to get you to their conveniently located dealership, priced accordingly.

 

[giant.robot]

If you extrapolate that to the far future, it seems possible to me that you simply don't repair things in space, you build them to last and have a back up for when they don't. Your monthly/annual servicing is running deep diagnostics and looking for potential failures, replacing things battered by life in space and topping up the coffee machine :coffeegulp: That may also open you up to planned obsolesence - your favourite mega corp builds things to last just long enough to get you to their conveniently located dealership, priced accordingly.

Not withstanding any contrary game rules, I'd suggest the mass of ship subsystems include their redundancies. The J-drive's neutron polarity inverter has multiple backups built-in, it can switch between them if one dies or is damaged. Same for any other major subsystems.

To follow the trend of microelectronic components being interchangeable and built around standard specifications major ship components would be similar. You could pull one of the J-drive's power distribution widgets and replace the one on the M-drive that took a micrometeor in the face.

Like you say stuff is also built to last, major components physically robust and mounted with standard fasteners. Everything is designed to be replaced by some shade tree tech at a Class E spaceport. All internal ship components are also able to be disassembled into components that fit through the standard hatch and airlock. Nothing save the M-drive plates or J-drive core are too big to be disassembled but can still be replaced at a starport without peeling the ship apart.

I'd suggest these things have to exist as it's fairly routine to see small ships in service for decades and even more than a century. You also have repairs to ships possible in the field. Ships of the Far Future are designed to repaired and maintained by their crew even if they aren't fabricating new microelectronics or wire wrapping a fusion core.

 

[hiro]

Not withstanding any contrary game rules, I'd suggest the mass of ship subsystems include their redundancies. The J-drive's neutron polarity inverter has multiple backups built-in, it can switch between them if one dies or is damaged. Same for any other major subsystems.

To follow the trend of microelectronic components being interchangeable and built around standard specifications major ship components would be similar. You could pull one of the J-drive's power distribution widgets and replace the one on the M-drive that took a micrometeor in the face.

Like you say stuff is also built to last, major components physically robust and mounted with standard fasteners. Everything is designed to be replaced by some shade tree tech at a Class E spaceport. All internal ship components are also able to be disassembled into components that fit through the standard hatch and airlock. Nothing save the M-drive plates or J-drive core are too big to be disassembled but can still be replaced at a starport without peeling the ship apart.

I'd suggest these things have to exist as it's fairly routine to see small ships in service for decades and even more than a century. You also have repairs to ships possible in the field. Ships of the Far Future are designed to repaired and maintained by their crew even if they aren't fabricating new microelectronics or wire wrapping a fusion core.

I agree, pretty much everything on the ship has multiple redundancies built in. Within the limits of Adventure Class ships, going back to the original ideas (I think, my memory is getting hazy!) of A or B or C drives, these are commercial off the shelf units. Given the lack of Imperial intervention, I can easily see a lack of compatibility between manufacturers but that's maybe more my take on capitalism than the actual setting's.

I'm not sold on a D or E port being able to service major parts on a passing ship but, it fits with the setting - junk ships plying the sea lanes with a rabble for a crew and no morals to speak of :rofl:

 

[flykiller]

"neutron polarity"?

 

[vegas]

inverter. neutron polarity inverter.

Sheesh. You'll never get hired on a starship...

 

[Xerxeskingofking]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QDaCMhKPGys

I mean, really, its technobabble 101.

I agree, pretty much everything on the ship has multiple redundancies built in. Within the limits of Adventure Class ships, going back to the original ideas (I think, my memory is getting hazy!) of A or B or C drives, these are commercial off the shelf units. Given the lack of Imperial intervention, I can easily see a lack of compatibility between manufacturers but that's maybe more my take on capitalism than the actual setting's.

the internal operation of the letter drives might not be standardised, but the imperium might have a set of standardised drives types with pre-set input/output locations, attachment points, height/length/width, etc, so you can swap out different manufacturers drives into the same standardised drive housing without problems. A Ling Standard Products type "B" fusion plant is the same external dimensions as one made by Tukera, has the power output plug in the same position, the fuel feed line in the same place, etc, even though the internal arrangement of those fusion plants might be very different.

 

[nobby-w]

"neutron polarity"?

Apparently Jon Pertwee used to set his lines to Gilbert and Sullivan in order to remember the techno babble. Imagining 'Reverse the polarity of the neutron flow' set to a comic opera arrangement will be impossible to erase from your mind.

 

[nobby-w]

[ . . . ]
the internal operation of the letter drives might not be standardised, but the imperium might have a set of standardised drives types with pre-set input/output locations, attachment points, height/length/width, etc, so you can swap out different manufacturers drives into the same standardised drive housing without problems. A Ling Standard Products type "B" fusion plant is the same external dimensions as one made by Tukera, has the power output plug in the same position, the fuel feed line in the same place, etc, even though the internal arrangement of those fusion plants might be very different.

Quite reasonable - one can easily imagine Imperial authorities developing these designs or specifications and engaging in a large scale technology transfer programme in order to ensure a ready supply of starship parts. This would assist with naval logistics and promote interstellar trade, so it would certainly make sense as an economic development programme. They might also do something similar with standard starship designs like the Type A/A2.

 

[Bromo33333]

One school I attended in the US Navy told us no more component replacement, like transistors or vacuum tubes/valves. We would replace entire printed circuit boards.

Its only gotten worse.

Having repaired desktop computers since then, we just replaced the motherboard. Didn't even try to replace components, unless they were in a chip socket.

Component level repair has become rare and arguably we're around TL8 or so.

SO at TL11+ I'd expect there to be a diagnostic/repair AI helping the engineer diagnose what box to replace with a spare. And the component level repair will likely have built in AI diagnostics making most repairs possible, whether at a ship or starport I think is up to the GM on how it's done.

Given how design, test and repair has had some computer aided engineering and repair, I just extrapolate to higher tech levels?

Just my 2 cents.

 

[giant.robot]

Quite reasonable - one can easily imagine Imperial authorities developing these designs or specifications and engaging in a large scale technology transfer programme in order to ensure a ready supply of starship parts. This would assist with naval logistics and promote interstellar trade, so it would certainly make sense as an economic development programme. They might also do something similar with standard starship designs like the Type A/A2.

The Imperium has it even easier, they just specify in all COTS purchasing contracts that stuff like fusion plants and J-drives meet the published industry specifications. So everyone manufacturing those systems just sticks to the common specifications so they can jump on those juicy government contracts/subcontracts.

 

[Condottiere]

In the MongoVerse, maximum size of default bridges is sixty tonnes for spaceships above two kay.

After three millenia, likely has evolved to the most optimized variant.

 

[aramis]

"neutron polarity"?

Neutrons do have an anti-particle... antineutrons. Confirmed in 1956.

Antiup and two antidown. (While the neutron is an up and two down.)

It has the same mass as the neutron, and no net electric charge, but has opposite baryon number (+1 for neutron, −1 for the antineutron).

 

[flykiller]

Given how design, test and repair has had some computer aided engineering and repair, I just extrapolate to higher tech levels?

if ... gravitics can be used to aim lasers, then perhaps that (combined with nanites?) can be used to control/generate components down to the microscopic level. say ... reduce components to a liquid state, form them appropriately, then re-crystalize them in their brand shiney new state.