EMP in the TU

[TheEngineer]

Hi !

EMP pulses are typical secondary effects of primary hard gamma radiation hitting easily ionizable matter.
While an outside EMP pulse is stopped by a faraday cage, hard radiation is able to rush thru this protection and cause micro EMPs behind (e.g. power conversion units etc.).
So its a kind of radiation/EMP teamwork.

The problem with EMP as weapons against those nasty robots is again, that a simple faraday cage construction is a very effective defense.
Anyway an EMP based weapon would be a pretty enrichment for the ships locker.
What about special EMP munition, which is able to push thru armor and cause the pulse inside the target....or some kind of magnetic EMP mine....

Well and here is a fancy EMP-Bomb article I found as a Wikipedia link:
http://www.airpower.maxwell.af.mil/airchronicles/kopp/apjemp.html

Regards,

TE

 

[TheEngineer]

Hi !

EMP pulses are typical secondary effects of primary hard gamma radiation hitting easily ionizable matter.
While an outside EMP pulse is stopped by a faraday cage, hard radiation is able to rush thru this protection and cause micro EMPs behind (e.g. power conversion units etc.).
So its a kind of radiation/EMP teamwork.

The problem with EMP as weapons against those nasty robots is again, that a simple faraday cage construction is a very effective defense.
Anyway an EMP based weapon would be a pretty enrichment for the ships locker.
What about special EMP munition, which is able to push thru armor and cause the pulse inside the target....or some kind of magnetic EMP mine....

Well and here is a fancy EMP-Bomb article I found as a Wikipedia link:
http://www.airpower.maxwell.af.mil/airchronicles/kopp/apjemp.html

Regards,

TE

 

[kafka47]

Especially, shielding in a field of war where Nuclear Weapons are extensively used as in the Frontier Wars. The Zhodani seem to view their warbots are the way the Imperium views Infanty and hopes to achive victory by swarming and miminalize the loss of life of Zhodani combantants.

 

[kafka47]

Especially, shielding in a field of war where Nuclear Weapons are extensively used as in the Frontier Wars. The Zhodani seem to view their warbots are the way the Imperium views Infanty and hopes to achive victory by swarming and miminalize the loss of life of Zhodani combantants.

 

[far-trader]

Of course there are other ways (non-nuke) to create damaging EMP bursts. Conventional explosive EMP bombs (lesser area effect but no messy nuke effects) and electrically generated EMPulses (no explosives at all) for two.

 

[far-trader]

Of course there are other ways (non-nuke) to create damaging EMP bursts. Conventional explosive EMP bombs (lesser area effect but no messy nuke effects) and electrically generated EMPulses (no explosives at all) for two.

 

[far-trader]

Originally posted by Employee 2-4601:
Is it feasable to have a small EMP bomb or man-portable weapon?

So to actually answer the question, certainly. Both a conventional explosive EMP grenade and an man-portable EMP gun seem quite plausible. What is less certain is the actual usefulness of either on a future battlefield.

Against an enemy with no electronic shielding but using extensive electronics EMP weapons would be devasting and greatly reduce inflicted casualties, one could fight an almost bloodless war is such a situation. BUT any enemy fighting a war with extensive electronics would have them shielded as a matter of course.

About the only place EMP weapons would be of great use would be against a high tech civilian population, or a blindly stupid military one.

 

[far-trader]

Originally posted by Employee 2-4601:
Is it feasable to have a small EMP bomb or man-portable weapon?

So to actually answer the question, certainly. Both a conventional explosive EMP grenade and an man-portable EMP gun seem quite plausible. What is less certain is the actual usefulness of either on a future battlefield.

Against an enemy with no electronic shielding but using extensive electronics EMP weapons would be devasting and greatly reduce inflicted casualties, one could fight an almost bloodless war is such a situation. BUT any enemy fighting a war with extensive electronics would have them shielded as a matter of course.

About the only place EMP weapons would be of great use would be against a high tech civilian population, or a blindly stupid military one.

 

[Gadrin]

Originally posted by TheEngineer:


Well and here is a fancy EMP-Bomb article I found as a Wikipedia link:
http://www.airpower.maxwell.af.mil/airchronicles/kopp/apjemp.html

Regards,

TE

Interesting, although I was only able to skim it.

IIRC Gurps offers "Hell Grenades" (or warheads) based off antimatter, which isn't quite Trav.

I have to think though, by the tech level of Jump is reached, most starships are fairly sophisticated hardened-wise.

However, it might be possible to have "Tech Level EMP" devices which can target lesser TL devices than itself in a fairly successful manner.

I'm thinking TTL 9-12 might be fair game for the higher TLs (especially non-military items).

 

[Gadrin]

Originally posted by TheEngineer:


Well and here is a fancy EMP-Bomb article I found as a Wikipedia link:
http://www.airpower.maxwell.af.mil/airchronicles/kopp/apjemp.html

Regards,

TE

Interesting, although I was only able to skim it.

IIRC Gurps offers "Hell Grenades" (or warheads) based off antimatter, which isn't quite Trav.

I have to think though, by the tech level of Jump is reached, most starships are fairly sophisticated hardened-wise.

However, it might be possible to have "Tech Level EMP" devices which can target lesser TL devices than itself in a fairly successful manner.

I'm thinking TTL 9-12 might be fair game for the higher TLs (especially non-military items).

 

[Anthony]

Originally posted by atpollard:
Computers and weapons are included in the High Guard radiation damage tables. Do neutrons and gamma rays kill computers too or does "radiation" include both EMP and Hard Radiation?

Yep, hard radiation kills computers just fine. Non-hardened electronics aren't any more resistant than people. Hardened electronics are a lot more resistant than humans, but are considerably bulkier and more expensive, just like 'optical' computers in Traveller.

 

[Anthony]

Originally posted by atpollard:
Computers and weapons are included in the High Guard radiation damage tables. Do neutrons and gamma rays kill computers too or does "radiation" include both EMP and Hard Radiation?

Yep, hard radiation kills computers just fine. Non-hardened electronics aren't any more resistant than people. Hardened electronics are a lot more resistant than humans, but are considerably bulkier and more expensive, just like 'optical' computers in Traveller.

 

[Anthony]

Realistically (for what that's worth, given we're talking Traveller), plasma/fusion weapons will generate EMP-like effects as side effects of firing, making EMP shielding more or less mandatory.

 

[Anthony]

Realistically (for what that's worth, given we're talking Traveller), plasma/fusion weapons will generate EMP-like effects as side effects of firing, making EMP shielding more or less mandatory.

 

[Gadrin]

Originally posted by Anthony:
Realistically (for what that's worth, given we're talking Traveller), plasma/fusion weapons will generate EMP-like effects as side effects of firing, making EMP shielding more or less mandatory.

yes, I've heard that before, thanks for mentioning that.

so are you saying something along the lines of "shielding at TTL9 will more or less provide immunity from EMP in most circumstances" ?

I'm not really trying to put words in your mouth

I'm trying to get at the heart of something that's been specifically designed to cause an EMP to disrupt a starship's systems at a given TL.

 

[Gadrin]

Originally posted by Anthony:
Realistically (for what that's worth, given we're talking Traveller), plasma/fusion weapons will generate EMP-like effects as side effects of firing, making EMP shielding more or less mandatory.

yes, I've heard that before, thanks for mentioning that.

so are you saying something along the lines of "shielding at TTL9 will more or less provide immunity from EMP in most circumstances" ?

I'm not really trying to put words in your mouth

I'm trying to get at the heart of something that's been specifically designed to cause an EMP to disrupt a starship's systems at a given TL.

 

[far-trader]

In fact, and I'm sure this has been used before as an argument for computer sizes and costs in Traveller, it is microcircuits that are more vulnerable to EMP, unlike say vacuum tubes.

In CTB2 space combat it seems implied that computers are no more or less vulnerable to nukes* than any other ship system, from which one might reason that they are very robust vacuum tube computers instead of microchips, specifically designed to be practically indestructible.

* at least comparing relative damage between B2 and HG it seems like B2 missiles are nukes, remember this was before the whole Imperial Rules of War anti-nuke stance, which iirc applied to planetary combat originally anyway

Witness the B2 damage effect to computers. Rather than degrading the model (as with other ship systems that suffer damage) you simply apply a DM to the chance for temporary malfunction, that doesn't sound like fried circuits (i.e. dead) to me so much as overheated tubes tripping thermal breakers (back on in a minute once the tubes cool off).

There's really no need to postulate specific hardening if your technology is inherently resistant to EMP

Until HG came along with it's fancy radiation tables and fiber optic backup (no specific mention of actual EMP hardening mind you, just this idea of a second computer that is invulnerable to radiation damage. What that sounds more like to me is a second computer that is left offline and unpowered until needed to supplement the original after that one is damaged.

And so back to the original question "is Electromagnetic Pulse pretty much a non-issue in the OTU?"

I'd say yes for most traveller type gear but not for any consumer electronics. So, that well used Laser Carbine and Combat Armor with it's electronic suite is EMP resistant. Same for all starship components, civilian or other. But that spiffy hand-computer and speeder probably not, unless you spend extra. That old air-raft in the back of the Type S, yep it's resistant. The one the hunter has in his Type K, nope, but it does have a nice paint job, entertainment systems, and heated seats

 

[far-trader]

In fact, and I'm sure this has been used before as an argument for computer sizes and costs in Traveller, it is microcircuits that are more vulnerable to EMP, unlike say vacuum tubes.

In CTB2 space combat it seems implied that computers are no more or less vulnerable to nukes* than any other ship system, from which one might reason that they are very robust vacuum tube computers instead of microchips, specifically designed to be practically indestructible.

* at least comparing relative damage between B2 and HG it seems like B2 missiles are nukes, remember this was before the whole Imperial Rules of War anti-nuke stance, which iirc applied to planetary combat originally anyway

Witness the B2 damage effect to computers. Rather than degrading the model (as with other ship systems that suffer damage) you simply apply a DM to the chance for temporary malfunction, that doesn't sound like fried circuits (i.e. dead) to me so much as overheated tubes tripping thermal breakers (back on in a minute once the tubes cool off).

There's really no need to postulate specific hardening if your technology is inherently resistant to EMP

Until HG came along with it's fancy radiation tables and fiber optic backup (no specific mention of actual EMP hardening mind you, just this idea of a second computer that is invulnerable to radiation damage. What that sounds more like to me is a second computer that is left offline and unpowered until needed to supplement the original after that one is damaged.

And so back to the original question "is Electromagnetic Pulse pretty much a non-issue in the OTU?"

I'd say yes for most traveller type gear but not for any consumer electronics. So, that well used Laser Carbine and Combat Armor with it's electronic suite is EMP resistant. Same for all starship components, civilian or other. But that spiffy hand-computer and speeder probably not, unless you spend extra. That old air-raft in the back of the Type S, yep it's resistant. The one the hunter has in his Type K, nope, but it does have a nice paint job, entertainment systems, and heated seats

 

[far-trader]

Originally posted by Gadrin:
I'm trying to get at the heart of something that's been specifically designed to cause an EMP to disrupt a starship's systems at a given TL.

That will depend on how you define the starship's systems are designed at a given TL.

It's easy enough to say that for any defense a counter-attack can be designed to defeat it. Don't label it EMP if you're worried the players will call you on it, just say it kills "this" type of computer.

For example it could be a hacked "kill-code" transmitter if certain ships have such a device attached. Like a ship bought on a mortgage plan, so if the owner skips all the Navy or skip-tracer has to do is transmit the "kill-code" and the ship's computer goes offline to make recovering the ship intact much easier.

 

[far-trader]

Originally posted by Gadrin:
I'm trying to get at the heart of something that's been specifically designed to cause an EMP to disrupt a starship's systems at a given TL.

That will depend on how you define the starship's systems are designed at a given TL.

It's easy enough to say that for any defense a counter-attack can be designed to defeat it. Don't label it EMP if you're worried the players will call you on it, just say it kills "this" type of computer.

For example it could be a hacked "kill-code" transmitter if certain ships have such a device attached. Like a ship bought on a mortgage plan, so if the owner skips all the Navy or skip-tracer has to do is transmit the "kill-code" and the ship's computer goes offline to make recovering the ship intact much easier.