Enlisted Promotion

[kilemall]

Got to thinking about the whole LBB1 vs. LBB4-7 supercharacter skill set issue.

As noted in other threads, part of my 'fix' was the Advanced Education INT 8+ table, bringing in a lot of those later skills.

But another one is something I thought up a couple weeks ago, Enlisted Promotion.

The idea being that if a character fails the Commissioning roll, he can still roll against the Promotion check.

If he gets a promotion, then it's an Enlisted Promotion, they go up to E2, then E3 next time etc.

None of the Rank 1-6 benefits apply if the character is still enlisted at muster out, still Rank 0. BUT, the character gets a promotion skill, giving the enlisted more skills naturally and more of an LBB4-7 ranking.

Commissioning resets to whatever R1 is.

An alternative might be for every term the character misses commissioning it is a -1 to get commissioned on the next role, if the character eschews trying for commissioning then they get two chances on the promotion roll (so it doesn't take 9 terms to get to E9).

Seems to me you'll get a lot more of those skilled Sergeants and CPOs with this tweak.

 

[mike wightman]

It's a good idea; I've been using enlisted promotion for years.

Characters who don't achieve commission can still roll promotion and advance through NCO ranks and gain skills.

I've mentioned it quite a few times on various threads.

I also allow a bonus of +1 to commission for anyone E3 and above.

E5+ is commissioned at O2

 

[LeperColony]

Later editions of Traveller have enlisted promotions as well. Seems to be a pretty common concept, not least because it makes good sense.

 

[Condottiere]

Promotions should make some form of sense during somewhat peaceish times.

You don't want to entrust a squad of men to a first termer enlistee.

 

[aramis]

Promotions should make some form of sense during somewhat peaceish times.

You don't want to entrust a squad of men to a first termer enlistee.

Many armies make NCO's of top IET graduates, due to high enlisted turnover and low retention rates.

Most of those do not trust squad leaders to make decisions, using section or platoon level NCO's or even platoon level officers to make decisions.

Heck, if I hadn't been bounced out for being mentally ill, I'd have been an E4 promotable by completion of my scheduled 67 weeks of training...

 

[kilemall]

Later editions of Traveller have enlisted promotions as well. Seems to be a pretty common concept, not least because it makes good sense.

The idea here is that this style of EP slides right into CT and the skill levels that system typically generates, not necessarily a LBB4+ creation.

Other versions of course have their own merits.

 

[kilemall]

Promotions should make some form of sense during somewhat peaceish times.

You don't want to entrust a squad of men to a first termer enlistee.

Correct me if I am wrong, but an E3, which is the maximum first term even under my system, would be a PFC or the like.

E5 is two terms with 4 successful promotion rolls- arguably in wartime it could be faster.

Newly minted Lieutenants of course get more responsibility then that much faster, such is the wonder of OCS.

 

[Condottiere]

E3 is corporal.

That's either a team leader and/or squad assistant commander.

War is a hothouse environment, and survival of the fittest, or just plain survival and experience, can put you on the fast track.

Conscription tends to pick out favourites and/or most promising trainees, so that you have junior non commissioned officers, who all go home after their commitment is up.

 

[aramis]

Correct me if I am wrong, but an E3, which is the maximum first term even under my system, would be a PFC or the like.

E5 is two terms with 4 successful promotion rolls- arguably in wartime it could be faster.

Newly minted Lieutenants of course get more responsibility then that much faster, such is the wonder of OCS.

Real world US forces, a significant number of enlistees enter at E3, make E4 after IET, and E5 right before or right after reenlistment.

I was an E3 going in; If I'd been allowed to stay, before my first (6 year) hitch, if I hadn't made E5, I'd have been done for. (Keeping in mind, I was diagnosed during IET. )

 

[Whipsnade]

Real world US forces, a significant number of enlistees enter at E3, make E4 after IET, and E5 right before or right after reenlistment.

Listen to Wil, folks. The fast/immediate promotion track he's describing is a way to lure better recruits, pay specialists more, and (hopefully) aid in retention.

I enlisted in the Naval Nuclear Propulsion Program. During boot camp, I was an E1. However, when I graduated from boot camp, I was automatically made an E3 and my pay back dated to my enlistment date. (During our boot graduating parade, myself and the other "nucs", advanced electronics, and other types had to have our E3 rank insignia on our uniforms.)

Four weeks later I graduated from Machinist Mates "A" School and was automatically made an E4 (3rd Class Petty Officer/Corporal) after less than 4 months service. We were referred to as "push buttons". Rank really didn't matter though because we all were E4s.(1) It was just a way to pay us more money more quickly.

I made E5 (2nd Class PO/Sergeant) the first promotion cycle I was eligible to do and the same with E6 (1st Class PO/Staff Sergeant) just before I got out. Admittedly, the speed of my advancement after E4 had a bit to with the horrifically poor retention rates in my specialty - with almost no one staying in, there was plenty of open slots to fill - but that speed was also due to the Navy wanting to pay me more money more quickly.

In 1986, I was offered 60K USD reenlist for 6 years. In 2016, that offer would be 100K USD.


1 - I knew only one man in the nuc program who wasn't an E4 after "A" school and not because he'd been disciplined. Unlike everyone else, he'd paid attention when his enlistment contract was explained to him. In the NNPP, you signed up for 4 years plus one year for the nuc training plus another year for the automatic "push button" promotion to E4. He turned down the automatic promotion and thus received the nuc training at a cost of only 5 years. Rank was so little thought of in my specialty that he was admired and envied for doing that.

 

[aramis]

A buddy of mine (one of my players, in fact) is mid-20's, and ran out of money for college... in his junior year... and is unwilling to take loans.

He's enlisting in the USN as an E3, being sent to the Navy's Nuclear Officer Training Center, and, upon completion, being commissioned. Even if he washes out of the school, he hits the fleet as an E5... because the day after Basic, he becomes an Officer Candidate, which is pay grade E5...

Yes, I HAVE seen the paperwork where the navy put this in writing for him.
Oh, and he's getting a couple grand upon reporting to the school, and a few dozen grand upon reporting to the fleet after commissioning, and a few dozen more upon completion of 4 years active as a commissioned officer.

He's opted for surface... but knowing just how few officers want sub duty... he's aware and willing to accept the risk of being sent beneath the waves instead of across them.

 

[kilemall]

I have a friend who was a nuke, even sent him a full-blown model of his boat a few Christmases back, and a coworker's son just concluded his sub nuke career. So I am well aware of the retention, training cost and bonus aspects of that job.

Part of the nuke retention issues is that those boats, floating or semi-sinking, get a LOT of seatime.

For game purposes I don't know that I would want to emulate every nuance of US practice past or present, or bother with specialist vs. command tracks. Game, not sim, feel right, but be it's own thing, andlet the die rolls inform the character's service history.

As to corporal vs. PFC at E-3, I expected to find Corporal at E-3 for current practice, that's how I remembered it, but found Corporal is now E-4 and described as the lowest rung of the NCO corps.

 

[Condottiere]

Soldiers in a high tech interstellar political entity could be considered specialists, considering how much gear they're schlepping along.

You have a mini fusion reactor powering your nuclear pea shooter, in a strength augmented monkey suit.

 

[Whipsnade]

For game purposes I don't know that I would want to emulate every nuance of US practice...

I don't want to emulate that and didn't do so.

I did, however, use those and other real world examples to explain certain oddities. For example, why is the poor SOB manning that X-boat called a pilot when he's really just a maintenance man aboard a flying data bank?

IMTU he's a pilot so the IISS can pay him more.

X-boat duty is horrible and, apart from a few wackos, no one must look forward to serving in the 'boats. Accordingly, the IISS tries to soften the blow and sweeten the pot. While you'll all get your pilot certs during your first year, not everyone is going to fill a pilot slot on the TO&E afterward. However, if you serve in the 'boats, you'll get pilot pay even though you're not actually working as a pilot.

 

[kilemall]

I don't want to emulate that and didn't do so.

I did, however, use those and other real world examples to explain certain oddities. For example, why is the poor SOB manning that X-boat called a pilot when he's really just a maintenance man aboard a flying data bank?

IMTU he's a pilot so the IISS can pay him more.

X-boat duty is horrible and, apart from a few wackos, no one must look forward to serving in the 'boats. Accordingly, the IISS tries to soften the blow and sweeten the pot. While you'll all get your pilot certs during your first year, not everyone is going to fill a pilot slot on the TO&E afterward. However, if you serve in the 'boats, you'll get pilot pay even though you're not actually working as a pilot.

Sure like my Scout mission jacket concept, make for service-like traditions and policies that stem from the unique sort of missions and actions they do.

Feel right with bits grounded in emotionally accessible reasons, but be it's own reality that tells players they are in SPAAAAAAAAAAAACE.

 

[Whipsnade]

Sure like my Scout mission jacket concept...

Exactly, although your Scout mission jacket is a better idea than my "finagle the job title so we can slip them some more dough" excuse.

 

[aramis]

As to corporal vs. PFC at E-3, I expected to find Corporal at E-3 for current practice, that's how I remembered it, but found Corporal is now E-4 and described as the lowest rung of the NCO corps.

And has been for well over 40 years. Ever since the E-# system came to use, in fact.

Marine Lance Corporal is e3, but is using Lance in its military alternate meaning of "Assistant" or "Junior"...
... and is not an NCO, unlike a Corporal.

It's worth noting that the insignia for corporal in the US has been the same 2 strips since stripes returned to US service in first few years of the 19th C.
In the UK, it's been the two stripe for most regiments, since the 18th C.

Note that the E# system is a late 1940's introduction (1948), based upon the 1920's Grade system, and in 1951, flipped to from low numbers on top to low on bottom... which is well after the 1948 split of Private into two grades, plus PFC.

Pvt E1
Pvt E2
PFC E3
Corporal E4
Note that above corporal, things have shifted SEVERAL times since 1956. Most importantly, Specialist returned at E4, and most soldiers promote to Specialist and then "hard stripe" over to Corporal E4 later, or sometimes go directly to Sgt E5.

The CT Bk4 ranks are, essentially, the 1975 ranks for the US Army and USMC, sans the specialist grades.

 

[kilemall]

Exactly, although your Scout mission jacket is a better idea than my "finagle the job title so we can slip them some more dough" excuse.

Not at all, it's that sort of human motivation explication that makes the game world more real.

If we were doing Imperium:Rome there would be grousing about coinage and salt portions and 'the centurion is a hardass watch out' and other bits that would put players firmly into a real feeling game experience, even if it were off from the actual feel of that reality.

 

[BlackBat242]

As to corporal vs. PFC at E-3, I expected to find Corporal at E-3 for current practice, that's how I remembered it, but found Corporal is now E-4 and described as the lowest rung of the NCO corps.

That's been the case for many decades.

 

[Jame]

Got to thinking about the whole LBB1 vs. LBB4-7 supercharacter skill set issue.

As noted in other threads, part of my 'fix' was the Advanced Education INT 8+ table, bringing in a lot of those later skills.

But another one is something I thought up a couple weeks ago, Enlisted Promotion.

The idea being that if a character fails the Commissioning roll, he can still roll against the Promotion check.

If he gets a promotion, then it's an Enlisted Promotion, they go up to E2, then E3 next time etc.

None of the Rank 1-6 benefits apply if the character is still enlisted at muster out, still Rank 0. BUT, the character gets a promotion skill, giving the enlisted more skills naturally and more of an LBB4-7 ranking.

Commissioning resets to whatever R1 is.

An alternative might be for every term the character misses commissioning it is a -1 to get commissioned on the next role, if the character eschews trying for commissioning then they get two chances on the promotion roll (so it doesn't take 9 terms to get to E9).

Seems to me you'll get a lot more of those skilled Sergeants and CPOs with this tweak.

I did a version of this with my copy of The Traveller Book.
Write in 6 Enlisted ranks for Navy, Army and Marines, then write in a number for Enlisted promotion for each. E.G., 7+ fir Navy enlistees.

Also, I ruled that an enlisteeof E4+ may be counted ad Rank 1-2 for mustering out.