It's in the grammar of the quote.
Errata for Traveller Core Rulebook
- Thread starter DonM
- Start date
It's in the grammar of the quote.
I sure don't see it that way; it's vague at best. It definitely needs a clarification from the MGT staff, either way.
I guess if you have to "raise" a random amount of money every month for your salaried position in a company it would be different. But then it wouldn't be a salaried position but, a (drum roll) piece work situation...
Semi-official clarification in that I wrote the rules (but I don't work for Mongoose anymore) - the money earned for Trade is for ad hoc jobs. If you've got Trade (hydroponics), you land at the starport and say 'hey, looks like you've got a leak in your fertiliser recycling system, I can sort that out.' It's not the level of income you'd get if you actually had a full-time job.
Also, for those arguing about hulls, I checked my original manuscript. I'm not sure when the text got changed, or who changed it (it could have been me or Chris), but the hulls were originally broken down as follows:
Also, for those arguing about hulls, I checked my original manuscript. I'm not sure when the text got changed, or who changed it (it could have been me or Chris), but the hulls were originally broken down as follows:
As I said - I can't recall writing that section, and it's not in the final manuscript I sent in, so it must have been added in editing. I'd ignore it - standard-hull ships are pretty unaerodynamic, but can take off if they've got a working m-drive and enough hull integrity to hold together (Structure >0).
nats
SOC-12
Anyway back to actual errata... I should point out (probably unneccessarily) that the suggestions above are just my personal take on the situation to combine all the various skills in the Core book and CSC.
Thinking about it further I would also probably combine Melee (Axe) into Melee (Bludgeon) or Melee (Large Blade) and just keep Melee (Spear) (or more accurately Melee (Polearm)) as a separate skill. Not many people will want to take an axe skill as a separate skill if it only deals with axes - a pretty limited use - in the same way as there are not many who would be bothered to choose Melee (Whip) if it only deals with whips. I suppose in all of these things trying to get a balanced choice of weapons options to weigh against the decent variations present in the other skills of small blade, large blade, and bludgeon is important to amke choosing the skill worth while for a character. I could see polearm being a separate skill though as its quite a unique set of weapons.
This was the premise behind suggesting combining all the laser weapons into just one Gun Cbt (Laser) skill - makes it more worthwhile choosing it then. The rest of the subsets: Carbine, Rifle, Pistol, Zero G all have a decent choice of weapons to make each worthwhile I would say. Not so sure about Shotgun though - thats pretty limited choice of weapons - they may be better combined with Carbine and possibly renamed Gun Cbt (Assault Weapons) or something similar.
Regarding the various Hvy Weapns skills of Autocannon, Field Art, Man Portable Artillery, Launchers and Energy Weapons they seem to be reasonably worthwhile groupings - Energy Weapons could be put into Field Artillery pretty easily though. Not sure about Flamethrowers mind - it seems a bit narrow to make a worthwhile option. I would suggest they could probably be combined easily into Man Portable Artillery without serious issues.
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Thanks for the clarification. Maybe,MGT will issue errata on this someday.
nats
SOC-12
More revised Core Book errata:
1/ Pg 108 mentions hardened computer systems resist electromagnetic pulse weapons but there arent any in the starship weapons. One could possibly argue that this is meant to refer to nuclear missiles but it doesnt state that in the combat anywhere and missiles would explode on the outside of the ship so the EMP blast would be of minimal effect. Actually there is no computer damage cited in the starship combat at all, unlike in the original CT where damage to the computer could serious limit the operation and jump capabilities of a ship. Could probably change one of the power plant damage items on pg 151 to computer instead.
2/ generally in the ship combat section it keeps referring to beam attack but it is never specified waht a beam attack actually is - is it just lasers, or lasers and pa, or lasers, pa meson and fusion guns? For example on pg 147 in firing beam weapons one could argue this refers to all direct fire weapons (all except missiles). On pg 149 in Fire Sand it is not made clear whether sand only affects lasers or pa weapons as well. All the items referring to beam weapons should be clarified because its all a bit of a mess at the moment. I could refer to Book 2/Book 5 in my CT set but that's not the point is it? (Edit I have checked in the Original CT High Guard and 'beam weapon attacks' refer to both types of laser and fusion guns which are all affected by sand, but not particle guns which are not affected by sand.)
3/ on pg 149 in dodge there should be a reminder possibly that evade programs also can be used to dodge. Not really errata but useful anyway.
4/ Point Defense pg 149 - can pa weapons not also be used for shooting down boarders and missiles? What about fusion guns?
1/ Pg 108 mentions hardened computer systems resist electromagnetic pulse weapons but there arent any in the starship weapons. One could possibly argue that this is meant to refer to nuclear missiles but it doesnt state that in the combat anywhere and missiles would explode on the outside of the ship so the EMP blast would be of minimal effect. Actually there is no computer damage cited in the starship combat at all, unlike in the original CT where damage to the computer could serious limit the operation and jump capabilities of a ship. Could probably change one of the power plant damage items on pg 151 to computer instead.
2/ generally in the ship combat section it keeps referring to beam attack but it is never specified waht a beam attack actually is - is it just lasers, or lasers and pa, or lasers, pa meson and fusion guns? For example on pg 147 in firing beam weapons one could argue this refers to all direct fire weapons (all except missiles). On pg 149 in Fire Sand it is not made clear whether sand only affects lasers or pa weapons as well. All the items referring to beam weapons should be clarified because its all a bit of a mess at the moment. I could refer to Book 2/Book 5 in my CT set but that's not the point is it? (Edit I have checked in the Original CT High Guard and 'beam weapon attacks' refer to both types of laser and fusion guns which are all affected by sand, but not particle guns which are not affected by sand.)
3/ on pg 149 in dodge there should be a reminder possibly that evade programs also can be used to dodge. Not really errata but useful anyway.
4/ Point Defense pg 149 - can pa weapons not also be used for shooting down boarders and missiles? What about fusion guns?
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Pg 159 of Mongoose Pocket Core rules is missing the following text:
"Psionic Abilities: The Psion must still roll to acquire psionic talents when he determines his Psionic Strength. When rolling on the service skills table, if the Psion rolls the skill
for a talent he does not possess, then he may make another roll to acquire that talent. If that roll fails then he gains no skill for that term.
For example, Luka develops the Telepathy and Clairvoyance talents at the start of character generation. In her fi rst term of Psion training, she rolls Teleportation
on the service skills table. She may now roll to acquire Teleportation by making a Psionic Strength check with a –2 DM (+0 for Teleportation, –2 for two previous
talent acquisition rolls)."
Its in my PDF, but missing from my Pocket Core Rules, as I tend to use my Pocket Core over my PDF, I got a huge surprise discovering this one. Thanks DonM!
"Psionic Abilities: The Psion must still roll to acquire psionic talents when he determines his Psionic Strength. When rolling on the service skills table, if the Psion rolls the skill
for a talent he does not possess, then he may make another roll to acquire that talent. If that roll fails then he gains no skill for that term.
For example, Luka develops the Telepathy and Clairvoyance talents at the start of character generation. In her fi rst term of Psion training, she rolls Teleportation
on the service skills table. She may now roll to acquire Teleportation by making a Psionic Strength check with a –2 DM (+0 for Teleportation, –2 for two previous
talent acquisition rolls)."
Its in my PDF, but missing from my Pocket Core Rules, as I tend to use my Pocket Core over my PDF, I got a huge surprise discovering this one. Thanks DonM!
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I'll note as well: This makes it impossible to get many powers after initial training, unless one opts not to test some, as a DM-6 for six prior talent tests means the talent needs at least an aggregate DM+2 to hit the requisite 8+.. that's between PSR and the power itself. Only two of the powers in Psion have positive mods, and the PSR 11 or 12 mod is only +2.
I can't find similar in any other editions, either, and this negatively impacts all the alien psionic races. I'm suggesting the erratum should be deletion of the rule, not restoration.
Actually Will, only the PSR 12 is mod +2. PSR 11 is mod +1. (pg 5 core rules.) And 4 of the tallents have positive modifiers. (p 152 cr)
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I was citing the advanced powers in Psion. Which makes a total systemwide of 6 positive modifier talents, and lots at negatives.
It's still bad design, and makes it impossible for a Zhodani who doesn't try for Teleport as his first upgrade to ever get it, unlike CT. It likewise means lots of failed rolls for other psionic types. And a worse mod really doesn't make it any the better: a +2 at 12-13 is worse - as only 1/36 of all psions will have a 12 at start.
For the Droyne, assuming that Don keeps the 1d6 PSR as in 1E, ALL droyne have almost no chance of 6 powers, quite unlike CT...
Simply put, retaining the continued DM's means almost never getting new powers, even during CGen. If the DM didn't cumulate with prior rolls... Or only was DM-1 for each prior talent acquired, it wouldn't be so obnoxious.
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PM responded to, checking your e-mail against the master list.
Note that in CT AM4:Zhodani, provisions for Zhodani who have learned all available talents were given on pages 24 and 28. It's QUITE explicit that Zhodani could wind up with all 6 talents.
CT AM4:Zhodani P.24
Psionics Advances: Characters may receive additional expertise in psionics as their career continues. Individuals may receive a new psionic talent (one they do not already hold) in the course of acquiring skills. If the talent received is already held, the individual adds 1 to Psi instead (but Psi may not be raised to more than 15 ).
and p.28
PSlONlC SKILLS
Some specific entries on the skill tables relate to psionics, as noted below. Each psionic talent is treated as a skill and is listed as a skill in the individual's skill list. The skill level for a psionic talent is the individual's Psionic Strength Indicator. For example, a character with Psi-9 and Teleportation would show Teleportation-9 as a skill.
When a character receives one of the psionic skills as a skill, he or she receives psionic training in that talent. If the talent is already held by the individual, then the individual's Psi is increased by +1 instead.
+1 Psi: The character increases his or her Psionic Strength Indicator by 1.
Talent: The individual may select any psionic talent not already held (Clairvoyance, Telepathy, Telekinesis, Teleportation, Special, Awareness). If all six talents are already held, then the character receives +1 Psi instead.
Bolding original on both; color mine.Some specific entries on the skill tables relate to psionics, as noted below. Each psionic talent is treated as a skill and is listed as a skill in the individual's skill list. The skill level for a psionic talent is the individual's Psionic Strength Indicator. For example, a character with Psi-9 and Teleportation would show Teleportation-9 as a skill.
When a character receives one of the psionic skills as a skill, he or she receives psionic training in that talent. If the talent is already held by the individual, then the individual's Psi is increased by +1 instead.
+1 Psi: The character increases his or her Psionic Strength Indicator by 1.
Talent: The individual may select any psionic talent not already held (Clairvoyance, Telepathy, Telekinesis, Teleportation, Special, Awareness). If all six talents are already held, then the character receives +1 Psi instead.
So, whether it was MWM's original intent or not, it's explicitly not what was in CT. (In CT, one rolled for all six talents as an automatic process, as well. You couldn't "wait for later" nor was there any benefit to so doing. See TTB, chapter: Psionics)
TTB, p116-117:
The Six Possible Talents: Although there are a total of six possible areas of psionic activity, no one person will usually be capable of activity in all areas. In training, a character will learn those areas i n which he has ability or potential, and those areas in which he has no talent at all. Roll two dice successively for each of the six talents listed in the talent table. A throw is indicated which must be achieved in order to have ability in that area. A DM must be applied to each throw: the throws may be made in any order, but there is a DM of -1 on the first throw, -2 on the second throw, -3 on the third throw, and so on. A character who is extremely anxious to acquire teleportation should throw for that talent first.
TNE is even wilder... TNE p. 249:
Psionics During Character Generation The rules on psionic examinations and testing above are for player characters who seek out psionic training after character generation is complete and play has begun. A few rare careers (such as psionic researcher) actually allow the receipt of Psionic skills during character generation. In this case, the psionic examination as discussed above is administered immediately upon entry into the career, at no cost to the character. The character does not undergo the psionic training step, however. Instead, term skills can be taken in Psionic skills as indicated by the appearances of the Psionics skill cluster in the career descriptions. Each receipt of a skill from this cluster allows the player to select a skill from this list.
Note that the determination of talents, in TNE, is part of the training section, not the testing section, on p.247.
MGT does things a little differently - under training, the word may is inserted into the line on 152 about testing, and unlike other editions, the roll to acquire talents is modified by Psi. This alone makes the psionics much easier - moreover, if rolled in reverse order listed (which is allowed) a Psi 12 has a 20% chance of all 5 TCRB listed talents - you need 8+, the first is at +0 for talent, and -0 for no prior rolls, and +2 for Psi 12. A Psi 9-11 is at +1, and thus has a 6.7% chance of all of them.
For a character of Psi 6-8, however, mod is 0; there's still a 1% chance of all 5...
But the real problem
The real problem is that a character who has rolled for all 5 CRB talents at initial testing has no practical chance of making the 8+ for anything outside the core (as the best in Psion is a +1 mod), nor for getting the ones most likely to be missing (Teleport DM+0 and Awareness DM+1), as the DM -5 for 5 prior tests is a net DM-4 before Psi Mod - only PSR 9+ has a chance; PSR 12-14 has a 1/12 chance, and PSR 15 has a 1/6 chance. With the modal DM-2, the net is DM-7 - not even a Psi 12-14 character has a chance; the PSR 15 is reduced to 1/36 chance.
The next roll is at DM-6...
It means the Psion character has literally no reason to bother trying for new talents, as the skill levels are far better spent on extant talents, as they are wasted almost all the time.
The only characters who should even ever bother with additional talent rolls are those given no choice.
This presents both a break with prior editions (Well, with CT, TNE, and T4; MT and didn't provide for post training gains as it didn't have a psion career) and a problem with availability
Moreover, the total list of modifiers in MGT (‡ indicates CRB):
+4 Telepathy ‡
+3 Clairavoyance ‡
+2 Telekinesis ‡
+1 Awareness ‡
+1 Aura Perception
+1 Energy Kinesis
+0 Teleportation ‡
+0 Personal Enhancement
–1 Machine Symbiosis
–2 Projection
–2 Psionic Attack
–2 Psionic Defense
–3 Dimensional Manipulation
–4 Ship Integration
–4 Tapping
–4 Temporal Manipulation
This doesn't count the additional ones in other subordinate lines, either.
To get ship integration, for example, one must choose to roll for it in the first 3 tries of training if Psi 12, or first 2 tries if Psi 9-11, and can't obtain it if PSR ≤5...
With the Roll mechanic, it's possible for a career psion to go several terms, and due to bad rolls have a PSR12 and no talents at all, and no skills, either, due to the forfeiture of skill level if the talent roll attempt is failed.
The two problems
1) Loss of skill receipt puts psions at a net receipt deficit.
2) effective mathematical inability to gain new powers after initial testing
A potential compromise solution
Having identified the two problems...
Problem 2 is solved easiest, while still restricting the number of talents, by making post-initial training rolls DM-(number of talents held) instead of DM-(number of attempts). This also means no additional bookkeeping after Character Generation (for the rules also neglect to mention to write down the psionic tests attempted), and brings more compatibility with CT sources as written.
Problem number 1 is best solved by deletion of the gain new talent roll entirely; however, in a compromise situation, such a character should perhaps instead be required to take a level in an extant talent, or if none, roll again to acquire a different talent.
Aramis and I (and Cryton) have already discussed this whole thing already, and you aren't seeing that this "new roll" is in the LLBs, TTB, it's in MegaTraveller, it's in TNE and it's in T4. What you are doing is saying that if the person uses a talent selection to select a new talent after training, it's automatic; I don't believe it is, and I see no reason why every psionically trained individual should automatically learn every talent. The DM you are ignoring is in every edition of the Traveller rules.
Mongoose finally makes explicit was implied all along, and you are going through a lot of convolutions to try and ignore it.
Mongoose finally makes explicit was implied all along, and you are going through a lot of convolutions to try and ignore it.
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