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Favorite Pocket Empire

Arsulon

SOC-12
I've just started getting back into TNE after a several-year hiatus: it all started with my noticing a minty-good copy of the TNE Deluxe boxed set (with Mark 1, Mod. I manuals) online... you should've seen the way it looked at me: I had to buy it!

Anyway, re-reading some of the more fun pocket empires and wondering about the possibilities they presented, I got to wondering which ones appealed to the COTI community. What do you think?

There's a few, but keeping it to published materials, which one do you like, dislike, or see the most potential in?

The Hubworlds? (TNE rulebook)

The Covenant of Sufren? (TNE screen)

Antares? (Challenge #72)

The Duchy of Oasis? (Challenge #75)

The Gralyn Union? (Traveller Chronicle #6+)

The Terran Republic? (Traveller Chronicle #10+)
 
I rather like the Gabriellist Children of Earth (what I think you are referring to as the Terran Republic) and would have liked to see more on this setting. As I am not a big fan of organized religion but other than Fading Suns I have not seen a RPG especially a SFRPG deal with religion in a big way...Tribe8 notwithstanding.
 
The only one I've seen is the HubWorlds, but I still like it (I actually designed my own pocket empire based on it a few years ago, after a friend gave me the CT Library Data Supplements).
 
I've just started getting back into TNE after a several-year hiatus: it all started with my noticing a minty-good copy of the TNE Deluxe boxed set (with Mark 1, Mod. I manuals) online... you should've seen the way it looked at me: I had to buy it!

Anyway, re-reading some of the more fun pocket empires and wondering about the possibilities they presented, I got to wondering which ones appealed to the COTI community. What do you think?

There's a few, but keeping it to published materials, which one do you like, dislike, or see the most potential in?

Of those, I find the Covenant of Sufren to be the most interesting as I have something of a love-hate relationship with them. I liked that they provided an interesting foil to the RC, especially once the RC started to "sell out" to the Sandman strain and they had actual uplifted Terran Ceteans rather than the cheesy Schalli and their unhydrodynamic bodies. On the other hand, I dislike how the CoS takes away the sense of "uniqueness" of the RC (see below) and how they sort of steal the thunder of internal RC diplomacy.

Most of the other Pocket Empires I really dislike the idea of - I find the concept that these groups all just happen to be finding the critical mass to expand in 1201 to be more than little ridiculous, and as time goes on, more and more of them "just happening to be expanding now." My solution was a more aggressive Virus - more of a lifeform than D&D "dragons."
 
Was there the intimation that Antares had regrouped in Challenge? I don't remember that.

But I agree with Epicenter - the idea that more than two "safes" were reaching out at the same time (Deneb & RC) was a bit much. And, IMO, is one of the two big achilles heels of MJD's 1248 timeline.
 
Gents,

I strongly agree with Epicenter. There were way too many pocket empires "blooming" in 1201. When I began making notes for future TNE campaigns I quickly vowed to scale back the numbers suggested in the various Challenges, Traveller Digests, and so forth.

It's the same old story throughout Traveller's history, everyone wants to leave their mark so everyone adds "just a little more" until the setting either contains nothing but contradictions or collapses under its own weight. The upcoming release of Foreven materials for MgT is one example of this and the suspender snapping number of pocket empires created for 1201 is another.

I figured there'd be a number of pocket empires, I just didn't think they'd all be operating at the same time or in the same scope. I penciled in ideas for a few "too early" PEs that would bloom during Viral "lulls" only to be smashed again. I also figured there'd be a small number of "mini" PEs; very cautious single systems sending out one or two ships just to look around the neighborhood.

The Hubworlds looked like a good location for a real PE, a wartime backwater region that also had plenty of old 3I facilities to be plundered. I grudgingly allowed Sufren's existence as a foil for the RC. Gralyn looked like it would easy enough to be scaled back and converted into one of my "mini" PEs. I ditched the rest though, Antares, Oasis, DGP's Terran Republic, and the others as there was too many of them and they were too big to scale back.

DGP's Terran Republic pocket empire wasn't the Children of Earth/Gabreelist polity. The Grabeelists are a prime example of the "just a little more" syndrome I mentioned above. The materials Harold Hale produced for COE are marvelous and detailed. The same materials were also completely unnecessary and fundamentally flawed. While the M:1248 setting contained many poor ideas, in deciding not to include COE the setting's authors chose wisely.

The materials were unnecessary because there were already too many large post-Virus pocket empires in TNE. COE erred by adding two more, the Gabreelists and their rivals on Dingir. Further compounding that error, COE placed these large and powerful pocket empires much too close to the RC. The Gabreelists and their Dingir rivals were far more powerful than the RC and the philosophy of each of those pocket empires wouldn't make for smooth relations with the RC. The Imperium-refuting, Virus-allying RC would not be viewed kindly by either a "heirs of the Imperium" on Dingir or the anti-Virus holy warrior Gabreelists from Earth.

The idea of the Gabreelism itself was also greatly flawed and its effects wholly unexamined. One of the continual complaints of Traveller's setting is the treatment of Earth. People don't cotton to the idea of Earth being the spiritual capital of a bunch of frothing, racist, loonies. When Virus destroyed the Solomani Confederation, you'd have thought that maybe, just maybe, a slightly more liberal political system would take root, perhaps one originally based on the "Human-Dolphin-Vargr" faction of the Solomani Party.

Sadly, rather then something better arising, the COE materials had Yet Another Bunch Of Frothing Loonies take over instead. No more racial prejudices or fretting over mouth swabs to check for DNA in your saliva, these new loonies are more interested in the contents of your mind and soul. The new era of 1201 finds Earth under a government headed by a hereditary psionic monarchy which has created a new religion complete with "jihads" and "crusaders". There's even encounter tables that take into account both religious affiliations and the fervor of one's belief.

People on the internet talk a lot about "keyboard kills". Let me tell you that I had an honest-to-ghu, Earl Grey, spit take when Harold Hale wrote on this very forum several years back that he honestly thought the Gabrellist faith setting was an improvement over the Solomani Party setting! Rather than improving things, we ended up with the same old pig in another dress.

While whittling back the number of pocket empire active in 1201 is a good idea, consigning the COE/Gabreelist materials to the dustbin of history is a very good idea.


Regards,
Bill
 
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Kafka,
Yes, that's correct. Harold Hale's campaign setting is called Children of Earth, the stellar polity is called the Terran Republic, and the religion they espouse is Gabreelism. It was refreshing to see someone tackle the issue of faith in sci-fi gaming; often this major historical force for social and political change is ignored, the naive assumption being that in the future the only philosophies to survive will be secular, and only captialism and imperialism at that. Fading Suns' setting derived a great deal of its richness from the sheer narrative potential of the conflict generated by orthodoxy, heterodoxy and outright heresy. Gabreelism itself wasn't terribly interesting, as faiths go, but Hale showed a great deal of originality and perception by basing a crusading pocket empire around it; after all, none of the other TNE societies dealt with it despite the fact that social crises often stengthen, transform or spawn new religions. If the Civil War and Collapse aren't crises, then I don't know what are.

Jame,
I like the Hubworlds too. In particular, given the decidedly anti-imperial tone of the RC material, I like how the nobility is a force for stability that helped them survive into the New Era. I also appreciate its location: far enough away from the RC and Regency to build a campaign around, but close to some really interesting places (it's right on the edge of the Black Curtain!)

Epicenter,
I agree about the Covenanters making a good foil for the RC: their story of survival in the wilds of Diaspora always struck me as somehow more genuine than the deus ex bit with the Hivers in Old Expanses. Likewise, the constant threat of vampire fleets lends a certain tension to the setting. While I don't have a problem with the emergence of multiple pocket empires (its just a plot device as far as I'm concerned) it is a bit close to the RC: I think it would've been more effective if it'd been discovered, via rumours from lancers and captured Guild operatives, on the far side of the sector.

Jfet,
Yes, Antares did regroup. Challenge Magazine ran several adventures for Trasilon agents (the Antarean intelligence agency) that ran straight through Brzk's assasination and collapse of the government. Trasilon agents, in the wake of the disintegrating government, are tasked with spiriting away key government figures to the Federation of Ot Zell. By the time the lights come on again, we have the descendants of Brzk's "vision" living in the Federation of Antares: a pocket empire built on the ruins of Ot Zell and Antares which carries on the Archduke's dream of racial integration. Have a look at Challenge #71 specifically for the new Federation of Antares, complete with subsector map and intro adventure.

Whipsnade,
I completely agree with you about the sheer size/power of the Terran Republic. Hale probably built the tension with Dingir into the setting in an attempt to curb his own expansionist, crusading creation; however, the overwhelming scope and sophistication of Gabreelist society does overshadow what's happening in Old Expanses. If only some writers had taken Nilsen at his word when he described pocket empires in TNE as "Never numbering more than a handful of worlds" (Survival Margin, 90.) What a shame he (and a lot of GMs) didn't listen to another of his caveats: "Remember, the virus is a plot device to bring us from Megatraveller's Rebellion into the New Era's New Dawn; it is not the plot of Traveller: the New Era. The New Era is not about travelling around space trying not to get infected by the virus" (Survival Margin, 92.)
 
It was refreshing to see someone tackle the issue of faith in sci-fi gaming; often this major historical force for social and political change is ignored, the naive assumption being that in the future the only philosophies to survive will be secular, and only captialism and imperialism at that.


Arsulon,

I should think a close reading of Traveller reveals any number of faiths and those faiths all have an impact on the societies in which they exist. Traveller discusses alien faiths and had explicit faith-based government codes from the very beginning.

... Hale showed a great deal of originality and perception by basing a crusading pocket empire around it...

Yeah, connecting a religion to jihads and a crusading spirit is really original. We've never seen anything even remotely resembling that in the real world, have we? ;)

... despite the fact that social crises often stengthen, transform or spawn new religions.

Re-read Path of Tears and you'll find nearly every TED has religious reasons for their actions. Remember the fellow cutting sea level canals with nuclear weapons? You can even make a strong case for the RC's Save the Wilds beliefs and the Regency's Bearers of the Flame mindset to be considered religions.

Religion and faith is woven throughout Traveller if you look for it.

I completely agree with you about the sheer size/power of the Terran Republic. Hale probably built the tension with Dingir into the setting in an attempt to curb his own expansionist, crusading creation...

And in doing so he merely compounded his original error. He created a pocket empire that was too big and powerful, so he created a counterweight for that pocket empire that had to be big and powerful, and ended up with two pocket empire that were too big and powerful.

In my first post in this thread I wrote about how everyone's natural desire to add something of their own to Traveller canon create a "Just A Little More" effect. So many people each add a seemingly small piece of straw to the donkey's load because it's "just a little more" and a few people think their larger bundles are so good that adding them to the load is worth the risk. The small pieces and large bundles add up quickly and the poor beast collapses.

The explosion of fan-created pocket empires for TNE is an example of the former while Hale's COE and Gannon's IRIS are examples of the latter.

If only some writers had taken Nilsen at his word when he described pocket empires in TNE as "Never numbering more than a handful of worlds" (Survival Margin, 90.) What a shame he (and a lot of GMs) didn't listen to another of his caveats: "Remember, the virus is a plot device to bring us from Megatraveller's Rebellion into the New Era's New Dawn; it is not the plot of Traveller: the New Era. The New Era is not about travelling around space trying not to get infected by the virus" (Survival Margin, 92.)

Those quotes should be kept in firmly in mind by any TNE GM or writer.


Regards,
Bill
 
I like the Hubworlds too. In particular, given the decidedly anti-imperial tone of the RC material, I like how the nobility is a force for stability that helped them survive into the New Era. I also appreciate its location: far enough away from the RC and Regency to build a campaign around, but close to some really interesting places (it's right on the edge of the Black Curtain!)

Hubworlds == Cannon Fodder. IMO. :)


Yes, Antares did regroup. Challenge Magazine ran several adventures for Trasilon agents (the Antarean intelligence agency) that ran straight through Brzk's assasination and collapse of the government. Trasilon agents, in the wake of the disintegrating government, are tasked with spiriting away key government figures to the Federation of Ot Zell. By the time the lights come on again, we have the descendants of Brzk's "vision" living in the Federation of Antares: a pocket empire built on the ruins of Ot Zell and Antares which carries on the Archduke's dream of racial integration. Have a look at Challenge #71 specifically for the new Federation of Antares, complete with subsector map and intro adventure.

Thanks for the reference! I didn't go back that far.
 
Another Hubworlds fan here.

While the detailed depiction of the Dawn League/RC was in many ways necessary to create a basis for what would have followed, I never found that I had much sympathy for the RC. Its internal politics were brutal and heading for meltdown by 1206, its field agents were rightly compared to the terror of Earth's Dark Ages, and in the final analysis they were just not worth cheering for.
 
The Hubworlds bug me a lot - not because of their organization, which is a little dreadfully dull to me, but the fact that the Black Curtain hasn't wiped these guys and gals out yet.

What a shame he (and a lot of GMs) didn't listen to another of his caveats: "Remember, the virus is a plot device to bring us from Megatraveller's Rebellion into the New Era's New Dawn; it is not the plot of Traveller: the New Era. The New Era is not about travelling around space trying not to get infected by the virus" (Survival Margin, 92.)

I suppose my huge TNE heresy is that I diverged from this viewpoint. I decided to embrace the Virus and a significant portion of my campaign is the struggles involving the sudden introduction of a very different kind of sentient life suddenly popping up and demanding a place along with the other sentients of the universe. The Virus isn't a monolithic entity; they're struggling with their own identity crisis between the earlier "kill all life" types, the later "kill all life because if we don't get them, they'll get us" types, the "we can live and learn with them" types, and finally the "we can ignore them - we don't actually want the same things to live" types.
 
For me, I didn't like the pocket empires, but at least they were better than the Regency... it was the old familiar home, stripped of all that made it home, and repainted by a mad democracy-uber-alles painter, and tied to an "under siege mentality."

I ran my games in the RC, with the PC's as morally questionable agents of the RC.

@ Arsulon: Surval margin predates TNE by a good margin, almost a year; the rules for TNE put the virus as, if not THE big bad, one of the most prevalent threats in the RC. The adventures and books point squarely to a "Reclaiming the wilds from Virus and themselves" motif.
 
I would disagree with the idea that all these pocket empires are "blooming" in 1201.

1201 is just the year picked for the setting. Some of these pocket empires "bloomed" during 1174, others "bloomed" 1197, etc. Others may be gasping their last breath in 1201.

How you choose to portray a pocket empire is your choice, please don't blame the calender date.
 
Whipsnade,
Thank you for proving my point. The fact that one must perform a "close reading," "look for it" and make J-6 leaps of interpretation (e.g. the social impetus guiding the Regency and RC are religions?) demonstrates the treatment of faith in Traveller is marginal at best. As for your implication that Hale's use of a religiously motivated, crusading society, is unoriginal because such societies exist in reality, you might want to re-read my comments: I was referring to the setting of a science fiction roleplaying game called "Traveller: the New Era," not real life.

Jfet,
But wait, there's more: Challenge #49 has a useful article on the Julian Protectorate, #67 & 68 featured Antares adventures, and #69 has the actual adventure ("Passing the Flame") in which the PCs play Trasilon agents evacuating key officials in the chaos following Brzk's murder. It almost makes you want to run a MT/TNE bridging campaign set in Antares, doesn't it?

Gypsycomet,
I had a problem with the RC's internal politics too and thoroughly detested them and the Star Viking setting when I was younger. Coming back to it years later, I really appreciate the contradictions that threaten to tear the Coalition apart. That said, the Hubworlds, in comparison, seems like a more stable setting in that it presents a more ordered, balanced society tenuously reaching out into the wilds. I think the fragility of the Hubworlds and Duchy of Oasis makes them more compelling settings than the RC in some ways.

Epi,
I can understand where you're coming from with the Hubworlds; what I see as stable and balanced can easily look boring from another angle. Don't you find the idea of living next to the Black Curtain interesting though? I like the sense of brooding horror it creates: nothing comes out, and anything that goes in is never heard from again. It's funny that you identify your take on virus as heresy; as Aramis points out, by the time TNE sees print, Nilsen turns the quote I used on it's head and the game could've easily been renamed "How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Virus." Congratulations, you turned out to be orthodox! Given what you did with your campaign, were you happy with the whole Sandman incident?

Aramis,
I like your reference to "morally questionable agents of the RC." For me, this is the only way to run an RC campaign: embrace the self-righteous hypocrisy that promises to tear the Coalition apart. Tragically misguided protagonists are often the most fun to play.

Theophilus,
That's an excellent point. While I personally never had a problem with the pocket empires (again, the tenuousness of their existence was compelling for me) we shouldn't necessarily see their "appearance" as sudden or simultaneous just because the game starts in 1201. I've often thought it might be fun to run a campaign in which the PCs and their descendants pilot a pocket empire into the New Era, using the default timeline or resources like the Antares adventures in Challenge I mentioned.
 
I would disagree with the idea that all these pocket empires are "blooming" in 1201. 1201 is just the year picked for the setting. Some of these pocket empires "bloomed" during 1174, others "bloomed" 1197, etc. Others may be gasping their last breath in 1201.


Theophilus,

Naturally. Which is why I earlier wrote in this thread:

I figured there'd be a number of pocket empires, I just didn't think they'd all be operating at the same time or in the same scope. I penciled in ideas for a few "too early" PEs that would bloom during Viral "lulls" only to be smashed again.
(emphasis added)

How you choose to portray a pocket empire is your choice, please don't blame the calender date.

No one is blaming the date. Everyone is remarking on the fact that too many people chose to use the same date.


Regards,
Bill
 
Whipsnade, Thank you for proving my point. The fact that one must perform a "close reading," "look for it" and make J-6 leaps of interpretation (e.g. the social impetus guiding the Regency and RC are religions?) demonstrates the treatment of faith in Traveller is marginal at best.


Arsulon,

Proves that Traveller's treatment of religion is marginal at best? Hardly.

What I was trying - and failing - to point out was that your memory of Traveller's treatment of religion is marginal at best.

Consider the following:

- The K'Kree have a religion that led them to stars to kill carnivores. The K'Kree religion is the primary stumbling block in relations between the K'Kree and other races. The K'Kree religion even has schismatics, as evidenced by the Lords of Thunder.

- The Vargr have a long standing religion called the "Church of the Chosen Ones". Vargr piety towards that faith waxes and wanes as Vargr interest in all things waxes and wanes, but that faith has been with them for millennia.

- The Imperium's "Church of Stellar Divinity" is said to have billions of adherents including, perhaps, Strephon himself. The Church is the government of Antares among other worlds and the church also have various schismatics as seen on Pavabid.

- The Solomani Confederation includes multi-system theocracies among it's member states.

- The Aslan Heirate's unified culture includes many religious aspects. When the tenets of that culture were established and adopted, a centuries-long cultural "purge" of Aslan territory followed resulting refugees and distant colonies of heretics.

As for your implication that Hale's use of a religiously motivated, crusading society, is unoriginal because such societies exist in reality...

It is unoriginal.

... you might want to re-read my comments: I was referring to the setting of a science fiction roleplaying game called "Traveller: the New Era," not real life.

And you may want to re-read both Traveller in general and TNE in particular. Religion is as present in all versions of Traveller as capitalism and imperialism are. CT included religious government codes and MT even included rules for creating religions. Furthermore and as I've already pointed out, religion is a constant presence in TNE too. Nearly every TED employs religious trappings and ideology, as does Virus.

I often find complaints about religion in Traveller generally fall into two broad categories. There are those who think there shouldn't be any types of religion in the 57th Century and there are those who think there should be only certain types of religion in the 57th Century. Sadly, both opinions drastically reduce the options open to the GM.


Regards,
Bill
 
The Hubworlds bug me a lot - not because of their organization, which is a little dreadfully dull to me, but the fact that the Black Curtain hasn't wiped these guys and gals out yet.

Well, right, and why I declare them fodder. I'd venture to say that their main purpose was to be the first victims out of the gate when the Curtain starts to expand simply due to the proximity.
 
Jfet,
But wait, there's more: Challenge #49 has a useful article on the Julian Protectorate, #67 & 68 featured Antares adventures, and #69 has the actual adventure ("Passing the Flame") in which the PCs play Trasilon agents evacuating key officials in the chaos following Brzk's murder. It almost makes you want to run a MT/TNE bridging campaign set in Antares, doesn't it?

Actually, I remembered those ones quite clearly - for some reason I didn't find / couldn't remember #71. I have it on the shelf, but I don't think I'd ever read it through - and I was happy to see the TNE deckplans for the lab ship!

And I'm a big Antares fan. I acutally collapsed a couple other subsectors for my own purposes laying around somewhere...
 
I can certainly understand the desire to create Pocket Empires for the 1200-era. I've done it myself. I just wish that fewer of them made print. I don't see anything wrong with people making new PEs - it's an amount of setting customization I think is fantastic. I've made a Pocket Empire myself for that matter. That many of these are "canon" to some degree, especially by the later MJD materials is what makes space a bit crowded (and lame) to me.

Heh heh, yes, the Regency was a little too influenced by Nilsen's (and GDW's?) pro-democracy biases - hey the Berlin Wall had just come down IRL. Perhaps it did feel destined and right back then. My Regency was much different place - Norris was assassinated for one thing, so all that democracy stuff never occurred. Delphine took power ... at least for a while. Bad news.

Epi,
I can understand where you're coming from with the Hubworlds; what I see as stable and balanced can easily look boring from another angle. Don't you find the idea of living next to the Black Curtain interesting though? I like the sense of brooding horror it creates: nothing comes out, and anything that goes in is never heard from again. It's funny that you identify your take on virus as heresy; as Aramis points out, by the time TNE sees print, Nilsen turns the quote I used on it's head and the game could've easily been renamed "How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Virus." Congratulations, you turned out to be orthodox! Given what you did with your campaign, were you happy with the whole Sandman incident?

The Black Curtain was (and is) my campaign's land of despair. It's like the lovechild of a tryst between Tolkien's Mordor and the 01 sequences from the third Matrix movie. It's not a nice place. It's a gathering place "for the Machine Intelligences, by the Machine Intelligences, to the Machine Intelligences." Up until just recently, biological lifeforms were tolerated in the Black Curtain, provided they didn't leave their planets atmosphere in any, way, shape, or form (including launching satellites). If you did, they'd come and bomb you. Then about two decades ago, they bombed flat every planet that was emitting radio chatter ("hey, you kids, turn down your radios!" "if the music's too loud, you're too -- *BLAM BLAM BLAM*"). Within the last five years, the machines have snuffed out every world with intelligent life on it, suggesting a dangerous shift in politics within the Black Curtain.

There actually is a HubWorlds in my game, but they're smaller and a lot more furitive - they have a few recently once-habitable planets that look like our moon today, except a lot more radioactive to show what happens when they attract attention to themselves. They live a much more covert existence - underground cities, radio emissions are carefully controlled in favor of hardwired landlines on the surface, ships are carefully rationed, and so on. They scour the skies with powerful telescopes and similar sensors and send ships out only when they don't see machine starships. The HWs are disturbed by the recent trend since the Machines seemed content to only do cursory inspections before and many of the dead planets within the curtain were nascent trading partners. The HWs have sent some ships with large fuel tankage for observation missions into the Black Curtain and have figured out how the AIs prevent stuff from moving around - fuelling points and likely jump-in points are under 24/7/365 lockdown by Virus warships, an increasing number of which are totally new designs and were not designed for crews - at least of living beings.

The observer ships from the HW haven't gone in too far (maybe 5 parsecs at most from one "side" of the Curtain area) but they've already seen some disturbing things:

* The AIs are starting construction on Criswell structures around dwarf stars in the earliest stages of construction and HW analyists think it'll take centuries maybe millenia for them to be finished at the slow rate of construction but timeframes like that don't seem to bother the Machines at all.

* One system had hundreds of massive solar collector "disks" in the life zone whose surface area is measured in hundreds of thousands of square kilometers but less than one millimeter thick serviced by colonies of trillions of tiny robots about the size of a house spider.

* A few systems have a near solid ring of relic Vampire ships in very tight orbits deep in the gravity wells of collapsed stars systematically deconstructing themselves and assembling themselves into something ... else. Other planets previously recorded in Imperial times as not having rings now have them.

* Gas giants orbitted by what observers refer to as "dervishes" - millions of slender "T"-shaped spires about a kilometer long but only a few meters thick that spin at astonishing rates on the order of thousands of RPM that randomly send out intense bursts of radio chatter. The spinning isn't "constant" and they slow or speed up, or even wander in large circles even as they spin, like ecstatic religious dancers or ice skaters, yet the entire thing seems coordinated, like a gigantic, never-ending ballet in close orbit over a gas giant.

* Earthlike planets where nothing but animals and plants live on land in new virgin forests and in the ruins of once-proud human cities, but at night the oceans are filled with eeriely symmetric patterns of phosphoresce suggestive of intelligent direction on a global scale.

---

The Sandman incident was a little cheesy and easy for me. It does occur however. The Sandman Collective (what, did you think it was dumb enough to put all its eggs into one basket and go with the humans, no it hedged its bet and copied itself) goes with the humans, plays nice. The stresses within RC society threaten to rip it apart. Baldur flat out refuses to deal with the AIs and threatens secession or military action. Nike Nimbus follows. There's a split amongst the technarchs of Oriflamme - some pro, some anti.

A suicide bomber eventually kills Sandman to make a political statement - a photogenic female human Aubani RCES officer, highly decorated and a former member of the Ashtabula crew makes a recorded statement apologizing to her friends and family for her act, but explaining that she would die before seeing AIs let into the RC. Maggart does the things described in Vampire Fleets anyway, citing a "higher moral imperative."

Ultimately, however, two large Vampire Fleets (dubbed Nemesis and Alastor) sweep in. Apparently one of the AIs either experienced a change of heart or there was a mole amongst the AIs granted citizenship. Nobody knows. What is known is that the Vampire Fleets, when they arrive, have very detailed information on the capacities and quantities of RC ships as well as their deployement...
 
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Epicenter,

I'm typing this with my jaw still dropped. Your descriptions of the various mysteries behind the Black Curtain are WONDERFUL. Wow, just wow... I'd use stronger terms but I've been warned about salty language!

To think of just what M:1248 could have been if a little imagination had been applied...

Like you, I cringed at the idea of Sandman. While I could see evolutionary pressures creating a more tolerant Virus strain and even a relatively benign Virus strain, my suspenders snap at the idea of a friendly and "sane" Virus strain.

Sanity, when judged across sentient species, is a relative concept. What's sane for one is insane for another. I also think that much of what humanity and other biological species view as Virus' insanity is actually a byproduct of Virus' different time sense.

Think about it for a minute. What's the "clock rate" of the human mind? What's the "baud rate" of the human voice? Now compare those rates to the clock and baud rates of a 57th Century computer. Virus lives at a speed several orders of magnitude faster than that of all other sentients. That speed, along with the ability to geneer itself by simply rewriting code, is the reason why Virus' evolution is so rapid.

When Sandman talks to the Lon Maggert, the conversation must take years from Sandman's point of view. Sandman thinks of what it wants to say, sends that thought to a system which "broadcasts" it slowly enough for humans to understand, and then waits for what must seem like years for an answer to slowly "compile" in the receiving system. This "temporal communication gap" must make both parties think the other is mad.


Regards,
Bill
 
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