Forbidden technology of the Vilani.

[mike wightman]

Recent posts about the possible suppression of technology had me dig out the MT IE timeline.
The Vilani began space exploration 5493BC and within a century were establishing scientific bases in their system (5382BC).
Five hundred years of messing around in their own system lead to them eventually launching STL interstellar colonization missions (4882BC) during which they discovered the first non-Vilani human world (4792BC).
Less than a century after this, seventy five years to be exact, (4717BC) they invent the jump drive.
That's 165 years of STL colonizarion.

They then spent 3805 years exploring and colonizing using nothing more than jump 1, discovering the jump 2 drive in 912BC, thirty years later (882BC) they would launch their consolidation wars to eventually form the first Imperium.
This took 1355 years of warfare, ending in 473AD.

That is over five thousand years of exploration, colonization, warfare etc.

The first Imperium was eventually replaced by the ROM and then the long night fell in 2314AD, a further 1841 years of unbroken history.

That is close to seven thousand years in total.

In 7000 years it took approximately 1000years for them to go from TL8 to TL9/10, nearly 4000 years to get to TL11.

Technological conservatism aside, what on earth caused them to advance so slowly?

What were the TLs of the other worlds and races they encountered? Who was allowed to study and archive them?
Was there/is there still a group behind the scenes?
Is there any other canonical evidence or even hints of minor and major races being manipulated (discounting the Hive for the purpose of this discussion )

Were the human races manipulated by the Ancients programmed to do certain tasks - the Zhodani to explore the core , the Vilani to develop an ultra conservative technological society to avoid certain pitfalls etc.?

 

[RandyB]

Is there any other canonical evidence or even hints of minor and major races being manipulated (discounting the Hive for the purpose of this discussion )

Were the human races manipulated by the Ancients programmed to do certain tasks - the Zhodani to explore the core , the Vilani to develop an ultra conservative technological society to avoid certain pitfalls etc.?

This actually argues for the Ancients to be as proficient at psychohistory as they were are other things. That is, the tendencies of the different races of Humaniti are as much environmental as they are genetic - by the Ancients' design. Meaning that they placed the different offshoots of Humaniti into environments that would interact synergistically with the genetic programming they performed.

And if the Aslan found the Jump Drive by reverse engineering, who's to say that the Hivers didn't discover psychohistory in the same way? :CoW:

 

[kilemall]

Could be the extreme difficulties of simply living on Vland and every misstep a disaster inculcated an excessive carefulness, fastidiousness and 'let's not get hasty, take 100 years to really think this through' problem solving process stamped into the culture.

 

[whulorigan]

What were the TLs of the other worlds and races they encountered? Who was allowed to study and archive them?
Was there/is there still a group behind the scenes?
Is there any other canonical evidence or even hints of minor and major races being manipulated (discounting the Hive for the purpose of this discussion )

Were the human races manipulated by the Ancients programmed to do certain tasks - the Zhodani to explore the core , the Vilani to develop an ultra conservative technological society to avoid certain pitfalls etc.?

ISTR that the Geonee of Massilia Sector, when first encountered, already had their own Jump Drive (which they had reverse engineered from Ancient relic technology shortly prior to the invention of Jump Drive by the Vilani). They already had their own small pocket-empire when the Vilani encountered them. Who knows what other Ancient-derived tech-innovations they might have uncovered.

 

[Highorbit_drifter]

To put that slow tech advance in perspective:
It took the Solomani to go from TL0 in 5493 B.C to TL4 in about 1800AD. That's about 7300 years. Then it took another 200 or so years to get to about TL 6/7.

What made the Solomani so conservative during those first few thousand years?

 

[whulorigan]

To put that slow tech advance in perspective:
It took the Solomani to go from TL0 in 5493 B.C to TL4 in about 1800AD. That's about 7300 years. Then it took another 200 or so years to get to about TL 6/7.

What made the Solomani so conservative during those first few thousand years?

Or, maybe the question is: "What made the Solomani suddenly explode onto the technological scene after TL4, compared to its own earlier progress or compared to other branches of Humaniti in general?" The other branch of Humaniti that had similar progress were the Darrians, and that only occurred after their contact with the Solomani.

 

[Timerover51]

To put that slow tech advance in perspective:
It took the Solomani to go from TL0 in 5493 B.C to TL4 in about 1800AD. That's about 7300 years. Then it took another 200 or so years to get to about TL 6/7.

What made the Solomani so conservative during those first few thousand years?

If you put it that way, Steam Power became a factor shortly after 1800, along with interchangeable parts from Eli Whitney, and the beginning of the Industrial Revolution, replacing manpower with machinery. Plus you have a bit of an Agricultural Revolution with the widespread introduction to Europe of Indian corn and the potato. both of which could provide far more calories per acre than wheat, allowing for a major increase in population. Then there were these things called wars, which also stimulated technology.

 

[kilemall]

Or, maybe the question is: "What made the Solomani suddenly explode onto the technological scene after TL4, compared to its own earlier progress or compared to other branches of Humaniti in general?" The other branch of Humaniti that had similar progress were the Darrians, and that only occurred after their contact with the Solomani.

 

[mike wightman]

This actually argues for the Ancients to be as proficient at psychohistory as they were are other things. That is, the tendencies of the different races of Humaniti are as much environmental as they are genetic - by the Ancients' design. Meaning that they placed the different offshoots of Humaniti into environments that would interact synergistically with the genetic programming they performed.

Interesting experiment for the Ancients...

And if the Aslan found the Jump Drive by reverse engineering, who's to say that the Hivers didn't discover psychohistory in the same way? :CoW:

I'm not convinced the Ancients meddled in Hive or K'kree affairs, but I could be persuaded

 

[mike wightman]

Could be the extreme difficulties of simply living on Vland and every misstep a disaster inculcated an excessive carefulness, fastidiousness and 'let's not get hasty, take 100 years to really think this through' problem solving process stamped into the culture.

The early Vilani had to contend with Ancient war machines that would still engage in hostilities.
I am beginning to think this was part of the Ancients' plan vor the Vilani to make them distrust machine intelligence and artificial life.

 

[mike wightman]

ISTR that the Geonee of Massilia Sector, when first encountered, already had their own Jump Drive (which they had reverse engineered from Ancient relic technology shortly prior to the invention of Jump Drive by the Vilani). They already had their own small pocket-empire when the Vilani encountered them. Who knows what other Ancient-derived tech-innovations they might have uncovered.

Interesting factoid - the Aslan reverse engineered jump drive and yet are counted as a major race, the Geonee do the same but are only considered minor because the Vilani beat them...

Perhaps the role of the Geonee according to the Ancients was to experiment with technology...

 

[mike wightman]

To put that slow tech advance in perspective:
It took the Solomani to go from TL0 in 5493 B.C to TL4 in about 1800AD. That's about 7300 years. Then it took another 200 or so years to get to about TL 6/7.

If you want to be truly pedantic you could look at the 100,000 years to go from TL0 to TL1

What made the Solomani so conservative during those first few thousand years?

Low populataion :devil:

 

[mike wightman]

Or, maybe the question is: "What made the Solomani suddenly explode onto the technological scene after TL4, compared to its own earlier progress or compared to other branches of Humaniti in general?" The other branch of Humaniti that had similar progress were the Darrians, and that only occurred after their contact with the Solomani.

Perhaps the Solomani, being the hybridisation of every race the Ancients experimented on, are the ones who occasionally give rise to a 'mutant' genius.

The role of the Solomani in the great experiment could be to produce another 'Grandfather'.

 

[mike wightman]

If you put it that way, Steam Power became a factor shortly after 1800, along with interchangeable parts from Eli Whitney, and the beginning of the Industrial Revolution, replacing manpower with machinery. Plus you have a bit of an Agricultural Revolution with the widespread introduction to Europe of Indian corn and the potato. both of which could provide far more calories per acre than wheat, allowing for a major increase in population. Then there were these things called wars, which also stimulated technology.

You are out by nearly one hundred years - Newcomen's steam engine in 1712 was what kickstarted the industrial revolution if Great Britain, it would only take another fifty years or so

You have a good point about transplanted crops feeding more mouths, and war is definitely the mother of invention in modern times, but not so much in pre-industrial ages.

 

[savage]

ISTR that the Geonee of Massilia Sector, when first encountered, already had their own Jump Drive (which they had reverse engineered from Ancient relic technology shortly prior to the invention of Jump Drive by the Vilani). They already had their own small pocket-empire when the Vilani encountered them. Who knows what other Ancient-derived tech-innovations they might have uncovered.

Yeah. And if your the Geonee and discover a larger Vilani empire growing what is the first thing you do? Hide as much ancient tech as you can.

 

[mike wightman]

Lol.

Considering what we are learning about human evolution I wonder if it is time to revisit the Ancient uplift hypothesis - around th time the Ancients visited the Earth is also the time when we start to get so many homo 'sub-species' - sapiens, denisovians, Neanderthals probably others.

What if the Vilani were the denisovians, the Zhodani the sapiens, the Neanderthals could have been the root stock of several minor human races?

 

[mike wightman]

The Vilani must have discovered evidence of past civilisations.

Ancient era ruins, Kursae era ruins.

Then there were encounters with minor human races, minor non-human races - some of which may not have had the jump drive but may well have been well above TL10 in other areas.

We know from Marc's novel that they archived information from such encounters, but how did they prevent the technology from getting out? Who enforced the technology suppression? How?

 

[savage]

The Vilani must have discovered evidence of past civilisations.

Ancient era ruins, Kursae era ruins.

Then there were encounters with minor human races, minor non-human races - some of which may not have had the jump drive but may well have been well above TL10 in other areas.

We know from Marc's novel that they archived information from such encounters, but how did they prevent the technology from getting out? Who enforced the technology suppression? How?

Vilani Psion Division

 

[mike wightman]

Yeah. And if your the Geonee and discover a larger Vilani empire growing what is the first thing you do? Hide as much ancient tech as you can.

More secrets...
I like it

 

[mike wightman]

Vilani Psion Division

I don't normally like to dabble much with psionics, but this has potential.

A secret society dedicated to archiving dangerous technology and keeping the lid on such discoveries.