Forbidden technology of the Vilani.

[mike wightman]

I guess that makes a little more sense from a genre oriented point of view.

As you and others suggested, GDW wanted to keep that buffer of humans pressing buttons and pulling on control sticks / yokes to operate starships, and likewise with other equipment. I guess otherwise you get people plugging themselves into ships and vehicles and going where they please, and how they please, or weaponzied autobots hovering over your head and heading your every cyberlink command ...

So, Traveller, as a background oriented game, probably doesn't benefit from that.

But, Traveller, as a generic Sci-fi RPG, could possible benefit from some rules addressing this.

Remember that GDW didn't just produce Traveller. They explored the cyberpunk wave by integrating it into their T2300 game.
If they hadn't got so hung up with the Kafer war they could have explored the pentapod biotechnology angle a bit more, as well as the bio and cyber enhancements of the provolutionists.

I always think they made a big mistake in not trying to link T2300 with the OTU, some retconning would have been required but I think the results could have been worth it.

 

[mike wightman]

Very successful. And anti-tech never works. But change is someones a tough adversary. ZS may have actually been a bit tired of their own success.

The technology they appear to be most afraid of is the thinking machine.

Does this imply that technological advancement to TL12+ requires limited artificial intelligence in the technology.

 

[savage]

The technology they appear to be most afraid of is the thinking machine.

Does this imply that technological advancement to TL12+ requires limited artificial intelligence in the technology.

I see a lack of facts Mike. Are they afraid of it or are we assuming they are afraid of it.

 

[kilemall]

The technology they appear to be most afraid of is the thinking machine.

Does this imply that technological advancement to TL12+ requires limited artificial intelligence in the technology.

Consider my homebrew rule about Model # of computer also measuring intelligence.

Then increasing levels of Model, and therefore intelligence, for higher levels of jump.

Perhaps higher levels of Jump require computer speed adjustments of more sophistication? Or the materials science advancements need intelligent machines to manage the creation process?

 

[whulorigan]

The technology they appear to be most afraid of is the thinking machine.

Does this imply that technological advancement to TL12+ requires limited artificial intelligence in the technology.

Consider my homebrew rule about Model # of computer also measuring intelligence.

Then increasing levels of Model, and therefore intelligence, for higher levels of jump.

Perhaps higher levels of Jump require computer speed adjustments of more sophistication? Or the materials science advancements need intelligent machines to manage the creation process?

In MT, limited Synaptic Processing becomes a part of computers at about TL-11, and Heuristic Robots are TL12, IIRC. Increasing TLs have an increasing amount of synaptics.

 

[SanDragon]

But, what is this synaptic processing?

Is it vat-grown cells that grow synapses?

Or, is it miniature electronics designed and grown to mimic synaptic function?

I have yet to find anything that says what it actually is!

 

[aramis]

I see a lack of facts Mike. Are they afraid of it or are we assuming they are afraid of it.

The SSMM are in several products. They are militantly afraid of cybernetics. TO the point of, in many SSMM influenced areas, more than 25% of your body as cyber makes one no longer considered a sentient, but a machine.

 

[savage]

The SSMM are in several products. They are militantly afraid of cybernetics. TO the point of, in many SSMM influenced areas, more than 25% of your body as cyber makes one no longer considered a sentient, but a machine.

Aramis, Thanks. I'll have to look for it. Since the robot was knighted and I have a TNE env campaign I missed this bit of Vilani history. Although, in TNE everyone is afraid of cybernetics.

 

[whulorigan]

But, what is this synaptic processing?

Is it vat-grown cells that grow synapses?

Or, is it miniature electronics designed and grown to mimic synaptic function?

I have yet to find anything that says what it actually is!

I believe it is purely a reference to the architecture of the CPU (i.e. patterned after neural networking), independent of the physical medium/material used to create the architecture.

I have always assumed that it was electronic in nature as opposed to organic, but T5 presents a number of possible options (organic, semi-organic, electronic, positronic, photonic, fluidic, etc).

 

[Lycanorukke]

The SSMM are in several products. They are militantly afraid of cybernetics. TO the point of, in many SSMM influenced areas, more than 25% of your body as cyber makes one no longer considered a sentient, but a machine.

I thought the SSMM was a Soli based movement though, not Vili.
Though given some of the doctrines in the more 'moderate' sections of the movement, I could easily see Vilani taking it up.

 

[aramis]

Armies, Thanks. I'll have to look for it. Since the robot was knighted and I have a TNE env campaign I missed this bit of Vilani history. Although, in TNE everyone is afraid of cybernetics.

SSMM starts out in Sollie space.

 

[kilemall]

In MT, limited Synaptic Processing becomes a part of computers at about TL-11, and Heuristic Robots are TL12, IIRC. Increasing TLs have an increasing amount of synaptics.

Yes, I am rather big on the robot rules, but IMTU the ship computers are more deterministic and more like what you would want running your power plant, not problem-solving driving your ATV.

Think Star Trek computers rather then HAL.

 

[kilemall]

I believe it is purely a reference to the architecture of the CPU (i.e. patterned after neural networking), independent of the physical medium/material used to create the architecture.

I have always assumed that it was electronic in nature as opposed to organic, but T5 presents a number of possible options (organic, semi-organic, electronic, positronic, photonic, fluidic, etc).

Personally I'm glad it's not defined- need more openness to taste, not more rules.

HAL rolled with photonic, Cordwainer Smith had animal brains laminated between plastics as a sort of bio-substrate, Star Trek went positronic, Computer Zero was liquid, etc.

I have it as a sort of silicon liquid gelpac with a safety switch that resets all that learning/personality stuff to default. Robots so equipped have a mortal fear of persona deletion.

Ship computers aren't so vulnerable, they have less personality and less latitude, and can be run through millions of behavioral sims during yearly maintenance to prune off bad behavioral decision trees.

 

[Lycanorukke]

Think Star Trek computers rather then HAL.

Technically HAL was a 'supervisor' computer, whereas the rest of the computers were your bog standard 'logic controllers'. Once they pulled HAL's plugs the ship kept on functioning happily. The only 'smart' computer I can think of ATM which is the entire ships computer is Holly on Red Dwarf. When the AI component was shut off the entire ship shut down.

So perhaps the User Interface/Monitoring systems have synaptics to make things easier and to predict problems (in the AE-35 unit maybe? :devil, but the grunt work is done by 'dumb' machines.

Now all we need is for the ships AI to ask 'You appear to be trying to start the fusion reactor, would you like help with that?"

 

[kilemall]

Now all we need is for the ships AI to ask 'You appear to be trying to start the fusion reactor, would you like help with that?"

Clippy the engineering helpbot?

No thanks, I'll take my chances with the incoming fire!

 

[whulorigan]

Yes, I am rather big on the robot rules, but IMTU the ship computers are more deterministic and more like what you would want running your power plant, not problem-solving driving your ATV.

Think Star Trek computers rather then HAL.

That is more or less how I would lean as well. My thought would be that the last thing I would want happening is for the ship that I own to decide that it (and its "body" - the ship) don't want to do this anymore and go elsewhere (or otherwise have an argument with me ).

If I wanted to have an AI at the heart of my ship (especially a Sentient-AI), I would have the robot brain be a separate module that is "networked" to the CPU, which could be easily un-jacked/removed (and perhaps placed in a more standard robot body as desired).

 

[savage]

MTU
Vilani and Solomani stock forged a solution to the virus problem.
My high tech capital ships and one world with a global defense system, not frieghters, have AI/Avatar (not Awaken) central computing as they made the TLG adaptations. These are highly sophisticated, cutting-edge, military androids. They are not commonplace as in TL H technology wolds.

"I am a warship, and I don't like running from a fight." Rommie/Andromeda Ascendent.​

They live with a purpose, which is a longing for all sentients. Theirs' is to protect other sentients. I have more restrictions than Andromeda on behavior and actions. Generally, developed for faster more accurate defense/offense (bonuses provided), these hardened systems, we're effective in holding off Virus.
Improvements we're made over decades by dissecting captured Virus/Awaken strains. Like the black globes, some of this comes from reverse engineering ancient tech.

 

[Blue Ghost]

Or, you could imply swap out all the fancy schmancy molecular microprocessing stuff, and replace a lot of stuff with toggle switches, and fly the old fashioned way. Your most complex computer might be a 286 with a 5.25" floppy drive ... if that.

Bingo, no more worrying about virus. I'm a genius

It was either Red Dwarf of STTNG that used gel packs for computers. This didn't seem reasonable to me because gel is a form of high viscosity liquid, and as such, would not retain any kind of data storage ability. Unless maybe it was some kind of holographic storage, but even then you have molecules moving around, and that's not good for any kind of pattern retainment, which is kind of what data is.

 

[Blue Ghost]

A note on Cyberpunk; now that GDW is no more, and Marc Miller's Traveller product no longer has the potential to compete with itself or another of the company's products, would it be worth while to create a "Cyberpunk" or "Cybernetics" supplement for T5?

 

[kilemall]

It was either Red Dwarf of STTNG that used gel packs for computers. This didn't seem reasonable to me because gel is a form of high viscosity liquid, and as such, would not retain any kind of data storage ability. Unless maybe it was some kind of holographic storage, but even then you have molecules moving around, and that's not good for any kind of pattern retainment, which is kind of what data is.

Well sure, if you are using TL 8 silicon. Who wants to work with stone knives skinning bears?