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From JTAS into Challenge

J

Jame

SOC-14 5K
When did JTAS become Challenge? Did they run concurrently for a while, or not? Did Challenge just take over suddenly?

I ask because I looked through the JTAS reprint book for issues 25+ (haven't got it, and I'm thinking of talking my parents into getting it for my birthday), and it looked like it was Challenge with the non-Traveller stuff taken out and the label changed.
 
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JTAS stopped at issue #24, but issue #25 and a few others were incorporatd into Challenge magazine, along with other GDW properties (2300, etc) then Challenge later broadend its content with material for other games.

When Traveller the Fourth (T-4) started up, they re-started the Journal with its first issue as #25, and its second issue as #26. There were no other issues.
 
JTAS existed as a supplement within the first few issues of Challenge...then that was viewed as silly and Challenge simply incorporated Traveller material circa 1987 right as MegaTraveller was being launched. Thereby making a seamless transition.

IG appealing to the Gognards in our company launched their JTAS continuing the old number sequence. I don't think there is any numbering sequence to SJG's rag.

It would be my sincere hope that Marc would one day release a CD ROM (OCR PDFs) of Challenge stuff including those from 3rd Party publishers as an archive to an exciting time in SFRPG gaming.
 
kafka47 said:
It would be my sincere hope that Marc would one day release a CD ROM (OCR PDFs) of Challenge stuff including those from 3rd Party publishers as an archive to an exciting time in SFRPG gaming.
Click to expand...

That is unlikely given what happened to TSR and Games Workshop.
Both put out archive CD's of their magazines and both were clobbered by law suits. One of the less than well known issues with magazine publishing is that you can pay a submitter for the one time use of their work or for ownership. Complete ownership is very expensive so most publishers paid on a "per use" basis with inclusion in a single issue of the magazine to save money.

When TSR released their CD set, they got sued by everyone except God for residual income based on the uncontracted useage. When GW saw TSR doing it thye set out to sell a CD archive of their White Dwarf magazines(up to issue 99). Both CD's got out the door and TSR's saw a wide sales distribution before the law caught up with them. GW...being much smaller...got crushed with barely any sales and I did not even know the cd existed for a while but now(very luckliy) have both on my library shelves

Marc
 
Yeah, I dropped my subscription when Challenge was created. I dislike mags about different games (and, really, mags about different versions of games). I was interested in Traveller, not all the other games GDW put out.
 
I can't recall the exact issue number, but I remember one issue of Challenge that had only one Traveller article inside. And that was an animal encounter write up with something that looked like a cow with a mace attached to its tail.

Moo.

Bit of a dissapointment when you're expecting some content you can use. I'd have had to put frickin' lasers on that cow-thing to make it marginally interesting as an encounter.
 
Commander Truestar said:
That is unlikely given what happened to TSR and Games Workshop.
Both put out archive CD's of their magazines and both were clobbered by law suits. One of the less than well known issues with magazine publishing is that you can pay a submitter for the one time use of their work or for ownership. Complete ownership is very expensive so most publishers paid on a "per use" basis with inclusion in a single issue of the magazine to save money.
Click to expand...

Both GDW and SJ Games appear to have included reprint rights in their article submission agreements (which is why the Keith Brothers adventures are able to be sold by SJ Games, they were in Space Gamer)...

However, my understanding is that the problem with putting the Challenge issues on a CD has to do with how GDW divided it's IPs. For example, Marc has all the GDW rights for articles in Challenge for Traveller, 2300AD, but not to Star Trek (3rd party), or even Space 1889 (Frank Chadwick). I think that whoever wanted to try to get such a project off the ground would have to get a lot of approvals, just from the GDW IPs involved, not counting 3rd parties.

I wonder which GDW partner owns the reprint rights to the non-GDW articles from Challenge...
 
beowulf2044 said:
I'd have had to put frickin' lasers on that cow-thing to make it marginally interesting as an encounter.
Click to expand...

LOL!

I think you should call it The Morg.



Yeah, later issues of Challenge rapidly lost my interest in the mag. I own the three JTAS reprint books, and that third one, with the Challenge stuff in it, is really the least used (and least interesting).

For some reason, after MT came out, the quality of the Traveller articles went waaayyy down.

Lucky for us, DGP's Traveller's Digest (and The MegaTraveller's Journal...all four issues) were excellent.

I was crushed the day I received notice that TD would no longer be published, and my remaining subscription would be fulfilled with, yuck, Challenge.
 
DonM said:
Both GDW and SJ Games appear to have included reprint rights in their article submission agreements (which is why the Keith Brothers adventures are able to be sold by SJ Games, they were in Space Gamer)...
Click to expand...

I rather figured that, since the Kieth brothers owned it agfter the once time licensing for the GDW printing, they were free to later license a one time printing in "Space Gamer". I could be wrong but such ownership and per-use licensing would make sence of how their stuff appeared in non-GDW publications(and ended up under multiple final owners).

DonM said:
However, my understanding is that the problem with putting the Challenge issues on a CD has to do with how GDW divided it's IPs. For example, Marc has all the GDW rights for articles in Challenge for Traveller, 2300AD, but not to Star Trek (3rd party), or even Space 1889 (Frank Chadwick). I think that whoever wanted to try to get such a project off the ground would have to get a lot of approvals, just from the GDW IPs involved, not counting 3rd parties.
Click to expand...

That may just be the big noticable part of the pile of wood on the bonfire. It may well be a combination of the two. I do know that the recent release of Apocripha-1 brought up a num ber of questions about ownership form the fans. Answers indicated that some of the later stuff sold as FASA and some of the Kieth Brothers stuff ended up in different hands than most of it. So, not wanting to rush back to those posts, the current ownership is murky which would indicate the licensing for periodical use was murky as well.

DonM said:
I wonder which GDW partner owns the reprint rights to the non-GDW articles from Challenge...
Click to expand...

That, I am betting, would be the third parties themselves. Had I thought of it, I would have asked Frank when he came to TravellerCon/USA last year.

Marc
 
So, I take it that the CT Reprints book for JTAS 25+ contains only the Traveller articles?

*Jame, hoping for deadtree reprints of the Challenge magazines*
 
Commander Truestar said:
I rather figured that, since the Kieth brothers owned it agfter the once time licensing for the GDW printing, they were free to later license a one time printing in "Space Gamer". I could be wrong but such ownership and per-use licensing would make sence of how their stuff appeared in non-GDW publications(and ended up under multiple final owners).
Click to expand...

??? Those items were never printed by GDW. They appeared FIRST in Space Gamer, and then later the Keith Brothers published them for their own company, Marischal Adventures.

Commander Truestar said:
That may just be the big noticable part of the pile of wood on the bonfire. It may well be a combination of the two. I do know that the recent release of Apocripha-1 brought up a num ber of questions about ownership form the fans. Answers indicated that some of the later stuff sold as FASA and some of the Kieth Brothers stuff ended up in different hands than most of it. So, not wanting to rush back to those posts, the current ownership is murky which would indicate the licensing for periodical use was murky as well.
Click to expand...

Hmm.. actually, the ownership is VERY clear. FASA material can be divided into FASA stuff that went to Marc, FASA stuff that went to the Keiths (some of which later went to Marc, some to Seeker), and a small part to HPG, because it was their stuff to begin with. Marc has clear ownership to everything on the Apocrypha-1 CD, or permission from William H. Keith Jr. for its inclusion). He has permission from HPG for their stuff in some future release.

If there's someone who wants to disagree with this, have them contact me and I can make sure we clarify any contentions on this.

Commander Truestar said:
That, I am betting, would be the third parties themselves. Had I thought of it, I would have asked Frank when he came to TravellerCon/USA last year.
Click to expand...

Only if the article authors sold it to the third parties. GDW had reprint rights, so they have to be owned by one of the GDW partners.
 
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