Being In "That Moment"

[Commander Truestar]

I was there again today, for the first time in a long time.
This time, it was in a training evolution. I'm in the driver's seat, the specialist is SCREAMING at me from the back.
The car's been hit and is spinning out of control, heading into the set up jersey barriers.....

And, that helped me this time....now...today

Some idiot in the center highway lane suddenly realized she had to move through the right lane and onto the exit ramp today.
She came so fast that when I realized she was coming, I had no chance to slam the breaks and manage to cut enough vee to let her pass.

Still, I was on the horn and breaks and then she hit me.
It was almost a classic "Pit maneuver" hit, just a little forward of where she should have hit, but I was now a spinning, out of control, 70 mph projectile with a squishy center....

....And at that very moment, there was the SCREAMING at me from the back.
And I snapped into that experience along with every other hairy driving situation since.

And, in that moment, I worked it out.
I did hit two barriers, but not 'head on', the way I should have, given my momentum

I managed it and regained control after taking those two hits.
Not plugging the company, but my Prius took it better than much larger, harder cars.....and I was still able to drive it

And now, I ask myself....
...How do I put my players in that same space?
...Have you ever made a situation "so real" your player snapped into some memory or experience that "took them"?

Granted, this is not often a possibility in combat. I have one Marine in my player group who was in Lebanon, and I work to make sure I don't raise those ghosts.

But, life is full of real life crisis points......How do you work to trigger those memories?
Or, do you at all?

 

[kilemall]

I have just one player that’s been in infantry combat, another in ship operations. Most of us have been in potentially lethal criminal threat and car wreck situations.

I don’t seek to generate reactions to take them back to those experiences, but I do speed up the reaction and chaos cycle, with key skills helping the coolness under fire sort of situation handling ala TW2000 and 2300.

So skill number covers number of times a saving throw can be tried to save a situation.

Another aspect is hit location and wound description via that location, points taken and stat affected. Makes for medical drama for the attending medic and how a combat hit or even a fall/illness is concrete and visualized rather then an amorphous point effect.

 

[kilemall]

So that would be probably wheeled vehicle-2, you have at least 1 level from experiencing the previous wreck, and made your saving throws. High difficulty, probably needed both tries.

 

[McPerth]

First of all: I'm gald you're safe after this experience. Car crashes may result in very serious injuries, even when not letal.

About how to reflect those things in a game, well, your description was quite scary, so you can keep on something similar, but if you had been on a grav vehicle, I'm afraid situation would have been quite worse...

 

[Condottiere]

As I recall, either time speeds up, or time slows down.

 

[Spinward Flow]

but if you had been on a grav vehicle, I'm afraid situation would have been quite worse...

A grav vehicle would have presumably offered 3D evasion options, not just 2D (most of which were blocked by traffic and circumstances in the moment). Being able to dive (or climb) to avoid a collision would have opened up alternative escapes that simple aren't available to a ground car.

Additionally, if a grav vehicle were "flying above ground level" I question as to whether or not there would have been crash barriers (of the same type) to impact, so there are a LOT of variables involved ... to the point where I'm thinking that the "default" assumption that a grav vehicle in the same situation would have been worse. I suspect that the same situation with a grav vehicle would be different enough as to not be usefully analogous under most circumstances.

However, I will readily grant that being "above ground" in a grav vehicle that suffers an impact (of some kind) and then starts diving toward the ground CAN BE WORSE in its own way than what @Commander Truestar experienced.



And to give some context to the idea that it's possible for passengers to survive a "plunge from a height that should not be survivable" ... I offer this Real World Example (that happened a year ago) of what "vehicle safety features" can mean when an ... uncontrolled descent into terrain ... occurs. Granted, it helps to be in the safest vehicle in the world when the unimaginable happens ...

 

[Commander Truestar]

As I recall, either time speeds up, or time slows down.

I this case, time slowed down massively.
This was a good thing for me, because, thanks to my training, I was able to react much more quickly than I would normally have.
There was no "stun factor", forcing me to observe as events happened without my reaction.

Because of that, I can say I was certainly able to affect the spin the car had been thrown in with seconds of acceleration, breaking and steering.
In this case, Steering into the spin to "push out of it"

 

[Commander Truestar]

A grav vehicle would have presumably offered 3D evasion options, not just 2D (most of which were blocked by traffic and circumstances in the moment). Being able to dive (or climb) to avoid a collision would have opened up alternative escapes that simple aren't available to a ground car.

Additionally, if a grav vehicle were "flying above ground level" I question as to whether or not there would have been crash barriers (of the same type) to impact, so there are a LOT of variables involved ... to the point where I'm thinking that the "default" assumption that a grav vehicle in the same situation would have been worse. I suspect that the same situation with a grav vehicle would be different enough as to not be usefully analogous under most circumstances.

However, I will readily grant that being "above ground" in a grav vehicle that suffers an impact (of some kind) and then starts diving toward the ground CAN BE WORSE in its own way than what @Commander Truestar experienced.



And to give some context to the idea that it's possible for passengers to survive a "plunge from a height that should not be survivable" ... I offer this Real World Example (that happened a year ago) of what "vehicle safety features" can mean when an ... uncontrolled descent into terrain ... occurs. Granted, it helps to be in the safest vehicle in the world when the unimaginable happens ...

I remember seeing this case on the news.

 

[McPerth]

Additionally, if a grav vehicle were "flying above ground level" I question as to whether or not there would have been crash barriers (of the same type) to impact,

There would be: they are called ground

 

[Spinward Flow]

I remember seeing this case on the news.

250-300 foot drop off a cliff in a Tesla model Y.
All 4 occupants of the vehicle (2 children, 2 adults) SURVIVED.

The father was arrested at the hospital (following an investigation) on suspicion of attempted murder/suicide (plus other charges).



Here is another example of how vehicle safety features can make collisions that ought to have been a death sentence (according to the rescue workers on the scene!) into something that occupants survive.

 

[whartung]

Modern vehicle engineering is a marvel.

The key thing to remember nowadays is that the vehicle is not designed to keep its parts shiny, nor is it designed to be repairable. It's design to collapse in a controlled way to protect the occupants. It's a feature that we see mangled cars with the tag "they lived" or with folks standing on the side of the road staring at it, rather than a bunch of firemen and their saws and jaws of life trying to cut someone out.

Cars are Field Replaceable Units, people are not. Better to have a totaled car and ambulant people than the other way around.

As for the players, the way to do this is to push the narrative, give the players few options, and no time to "discuss" anything.

I remember well presented scenario where we were body guards. We were trying to get the Principal into a car surrounded by protesters. It was bedlam, people were grabbing, and crowding, and shouting. Had to push the people aside, had to lean on the doors of the limo to get them open and pushed back the people. We just got in the car, just got the door shut, there was a fraction of second of relief as we were yelling at the driver to go. Then, there was a THUMP. Someone had just stuck a box of something to the rear window...

 

[bookwyrm]

I was there again today, for the first time in a long time.
This time, it was in a training evolution. I'm in the driver's seat, the specialist is SCREAMING at me from the back.
The car's been hit and is spinning out of control, heading into the set up jersey barriers.....

And, that helped me this time....now...today

Some idiot in the center highway lane suddenly realized she had to move through the right lane and onto the exit ramp today.
She came so fast that when I realized she was coming, I had no chance to slam the breaks and manage to cut enough vee to let her pass.

Still, I was on the horn and breaks and then she hit me.
It was almost a classic "Pit maneuver" hit, just a little forward of where she should have hit, but I was now a spinning, out of control, 70 mph projectile with a squishy center....

....And at that very moment, there was the SCREAMING at me from the back.
And I snapped into that experience along with every other hairy driving situation since.

And, in that moment, I worked it out.
I did hit two barriers, but not 'head on', the way I should have, given my momentum

I managed it and regained control after taking those two hits.
Not plugging the company, but my Prius took it better than much larger, harder cars.....and I was still able to drive it

And now, I ask myself....
...How do I put my players in that same space?
...Have you ever made a situation "so real" your player snapped into some memory or experience that "took them"?

Granted, this is not often a possibility in combat. I have one Marine in my player group who was in Lebanon, and I work to make sure I don't raise those ghosts.

But, life is full of real life crisis points......How do you work to trigger those memories?
Or, do you at all?
View attachment 4467

First time I 'hydroplaned' was when taking some coworkers to another work location and turning onto the freeway onramp. My large drink spilled on my lap, so I naturally took my eyes off of the road to deal with a cold soda soaking my pants & legs... which is when the screaming passengers started. I looked up to find myself off of the ramp and in the plants, gripping the steering wheel tightly I swiftly turned back to the ramp and started fishtailing... the passengers are still screaming. I fishtailed 2 more times, turning into the slide each time until I regained control of the car and finally got back onto the ramp. There were some thumps from water sprinklers meeting their end, but I was happy to be back on the ramp heading to the freeway safe and sound, with a wet lap, and a lot of heavy breathing replacing the screaming. And a huge adrenaline surge! I was 19 at the time and only later remembered needing to turn into a spin from the CA. Drivers Manual I had to read to get my license.

I've hydroplaned 2 other times, and one of them I sideswiped a retaining wall... that time it felt like time slowed down as I saw my passenger side view mirror explode against the wall in slow motion.

Experience for a GM can really add color, spice, and impact to a scene

 

[Jeff M. Hopper]

A few things here.....

Traveller is a game. Games are supposed to be fun.

Trying to create scenarios which cause a Player to relive, even momentarily, an uncomfortable or traumatic experience from their personal past could really destroy the "fun" part of a game session. That isn't the kind of "In The Moment" that I try to have in my games.

IMHO, this would veer dangerously close to situations where GMs think that they can provide psychotherapy through RPG adventures - which is a bad idea no matter how you look at it.

 

[whartung]

That isn't the kind of "In The Moment" that I try to have in my games.

That's not how I read it. I read it as a situation that's moving very quickly, and snap decisions must be made in real player time, not just real game time. Putting a sense of urgency on the players.

As I've mentioned before, there's also "See that clock on the wall? At 10pm the space station is exploding. It's 9:15 now, so you may want to get moving."

Ticking bombs are used in movies as tension elements for a reason.

 

[Spinward Flow]

Ticking bombs are used in movies as tension elements for a reason.

My favorite one of those is in The Doomsday Machine from original Star Trek.
The countdown timer is 30 seconds.
93 seconds of screen time elapses before the Constellation's impulse engines blow up in a fusion explosion (97.835 megatons!).

 

[Commander Truestar]

Trying to create scenarios which cause a Player to relive, even momentarily, an uncomfortable or traumatic experience from their personal past could really destroy the "fun" part of a game session. That isn't the kind of "In The Moment" that I try to have in my games.

IMHO, this would veer dangerously close to situations where GMs think that they can provide psychotherapy through RPG adventures - which is a bad idea no matter how you look at it.

OK,
The "moment" which this event triggered for me was a training evolution.
While not the most comfortable at the time, it was certainly not traumatic, or even close to that.

Yes. I have a former marine in my game who was in Lebanon, thanks to President Regan.
I would NOT consider anything that came close to what he experienced before he was med-evac'd to Germany with a hole in his head and a leg only barely connected.......
Doing that to a player to a player would be psychotic.

So....."Scale of reaction" to what I said.....not what you interpret my words to mean.

The question I asked is related to a "Learning Experience" I had while in specialized training.......A Learning Experience.

I do have a number of in-combat experiences, especially related to my Purple Heart, which I would never try to recreate even for myself

 

[Commander Truestar]

First time I 'hydroplaned' was when taking some coworkers to another work location and turning onto the freeway onramp. My large drink spilled on my lap, so I naturally took my eyes off of the road to deal with a cold soda soaking my pants & legs... which is when the screaming passengers started. I looked up to find myself off of the ramp and in the plants, gripping the steering wheel tightly I swiftly turned back to the ramp and started fishtailing... the passengers are still screaming. I fishtailed 2 more times, turning into the slide each time until I regained control of the car and finally got back onto the ramp. There were some thumps from water sprinklers meeting their end, but I was happy to be back on the ramp heading to the freeway safe and sound, with a wet lap, and a lot of heavy breathing replacing the screaming. And a huge adrenaline surge! I was 19 at the time and only later remembered needing to turn into a spin from the CA. Drivers Manual I had to read to get my license.

I've hydroplaned 2 other times, and one of them I sideswiped a retaining wall... that time it felt like time slowed down as I saw my passenger side view mirror explode against the wall in slow motion.

Experience for a GM can really add color, spice, and impact to a scene

Yeah,

The "Holy Crap" knee jerk reaction is one of those things that every driver needs to beat out of their system.
During an entirely different evolution in my training program, the "Holy Crap" knee jerk was beaten out of me, metaphorically, with many punishment push ups, marches, etc....

The men in my unit learned that nothing at all....especially a chilled liquid....means a damn against achieving the mission
In the end, you even learned to prevent reacting minor wounds while acknowledging them mentally and assessing how they will affect your ability to achieve the mission....
And, all that was done in the seconds after receiving the wound while still acting to complete your mission.

It should be mentioned, I "Did" die during character generation.
I woke up on an autopsy table as a Captain(who was a military doctor) was preparing to carry out an autopsy.
I'd been certified dead by more than one doctor
When I woke up, he screamed and collapsed..(and spent 3 days in a CCU thanks to the shock)

I was not cognizant of that, and only learned of it days later.
I maintain to this day, that if I had been cognizant....and yelled "BRAINZ!"....the shock would have killed the doctor

 

[warwizard]

I have been known to go into controlled settings to practice spin entry and recovery. Example large empty parking lot with 10 inches of snow (25.4cm). This came in handy one July day when comming off the independance pass in Colorado. There was a wet snow that started, wet flakes perhaps 1 inch across landing on the road, which in a short while had a black and white mottled appearance. I was doing perhaps 30 MPH no breaking no steering changes, yet my back end was heavier than the front, the car swapped ends and soon as I heard/felt gravel under the tires, I applied brakes. Fortuntely I had slid to an inside turn facing a tall stone wall, instead of an outside turn with a 500 ft drop. I sat there in my car for the next half hour while the adrenalin worked it's way through my system. I moved a couple of hundred pounds from my trunk to the passenger seat, cleared 2" of snow from the windows and carefully continued my trip.