MGT Only: From T4 to Mongoose Traveller

[atpollard]

I've seen rules from both CT and T4 copy/pasted into MgT verbatim as rules. It's about 50/50 from each edition.

Since my question has nothing to do with T5, I moved this to a new topic in the Mongoose Traveller section ...

I am unfamiliar with T4 except in generalities (distinctive artwork style, variable dice task system, short lived parent company), but I do have the FFE CD for T4.
So rather than feed the 'yes it is - no it is not' ping-pong on the other topic, I wanted to ask:

Can you provide a specific example of T4 rules that were copy/pasted into MgT?

 

[atpollard]

To anyone else interested in this general topic, I would invite you to share speculations or specific examples of rules from other versions of Traveller that may have made it into Mongoose Traveller.

 

[HG_B]

Can you provide a specific example of T4 rules that were copy/pasted into MgT?

Offhand I can't think of any major rule. (core rule that wasn't part of CT or MT)
I only played T4 for a little while but have the "core" rule books.

 

[McPerth]

My first thought when I first read MgT was that someone as disapointed as I was with T4 has recovered and updated CT, even retourning to pre MT as its basis (but adding some concepts, as the task system, that appeared before MT but were integral to it).

Both the game mechanics, the CharGen, the number of skills, etc... were more reminiscent of CT than T4 or even MT.

As I was not precisely a fan of T4, I just own basic rules and some suplements, but the only semblance I see with MgT is the damage points applied to starships, instead of more generic damage, and the difference among interior and surface explosion tables depending on the armor (hull in case of MgT) being breached (meson fire aside).

 

[HG_B]

and the difference among interior and surfaace explosion tables depending on the armor (hull in case of MgT) being breached (meson fire aside).

MT reduced "hits" based on armour factor. Before T4.

 

[McPerth]

MT reduced "hits" based on armour factor. Before T4.

Not in starship combat (except for criticals), that is what I was alluding.

 

[Vargas]

To anyone else interested in this general topic, I would invite you to share speculations or specific examples of rules from other versions of Traveller that may have made it into Mongoose Traveller.

There are entire sections of Vargr that qualify.

 

[robject]

I'm pretty reasonably sure that Mongoose Traveller didn't and doesn't have a copy of Traveller version 4, and didn't use any of it. Any text in Traveller4 that's identical to Mongoose Traveller, is that way because they both borrowed from Classic Traveller.

I am sure that Mongoose borrowed material from Classic Traveller, including the alien modules, and Traveller5.

In my not-completely-clueless opinion.

 

[HG_B]

Not in starship combat (except for criticals), that is what I was alluding.

Incorrect. See pg. 94, MT Ref Manuel.

 

[mike wightman]

That's a rule taken directly from High Guard 2, which is what MT ship combat is based on, modified slightly to work with MT's Striker derived armour rating.

 

[McPerth]

Incorrect. See pg. 94, MT Ref Manuel.

Are you alluding to the modifier for armor making hits ineffective?

If so, that was already in HG, and keeps it into the generic damages. When I talked about the hits I meant 'hit points', so to say, and that began (AFAIK) in TNE and was kept in T4 and, in a different way, in MgT. The main difference in those kinds of danage, as I see them, is that in CT/HG/MT your ship could only be fully destroyed* by a critical hit of "ship vaporized", while most of the ships were fully inopperative, but easily repaired, while in TNE and after it, the ship destruction was quite more a likely result in combat.

If you alluded to some othre part of page 94 in MT:RM, please, specify it.

*when I say "destoyed", I mean "damaged beyond repair", not just "converted to space dust".

 

[atpollard]

I'm pretty reasonably sure that Mongoose Traveller didn't and doesn't have a copy of Traveller version 4, and didn't use any of it. Any text in Traveller4 that's identical to Mongoose Traveller, is that way because they both borrowed from Classic Traveller.

I am sure that Mongoose borrowed material from Classic Traveller, including the alien modules, and Traveller5.

In my not-completely-clueless opinion.

Actually, I would suspect that T4 to T5 to MgT is a perfectly valid route for something to end up in MgT that may have started out in T4. I just know too little about T4 to spot something in MgT that might be from T4.

In any event, Shonner made a very strong original statement and I wanted to offer him a chance to quote something in T4 that he had in mind, without crapping all over the T5 topic.

I find it plausible and would like to see it confirmed or disproved.

 

[aramis]

Actually, I would suspect that T4 to T5 to MgT is a perfectly valid route for something to end up in MgT that may have started out in T4. I just know too little about T4 to spot something in MgT that might be from T4.

In any event, Shonner made a very strong original statement and I wanted to offer him a chance to quote something in T4 that he had in mind, without crapping all over the T5 topic.

I find it plausible and would like to see it confirmed or disproved.

All the T4 inclusions that made it into T5 were reworded early on- and only the Task and Character Gen really are from T4 (everything else is pretty much either from CT or whole cloth new). Of particular note: T5 ACS early drafts were CT Bk2 with increased details.

The only T5 section that was released to playtesters that looks at all like MGt is Ship Design - And that's divergent from an early T5-ACS draft, and regressed back towards CT.

Everything else in MGT is essentially either whole cloth new or is adapted from CT, with a few rare nods to MegaTraveller (consistent 2d task system, special duty), tho' those could be ported in from other flavors as well (notably T20). But note that the MT influence does not show up in rules mechanics.

 

[HG_B]

If you alluded to some othre part of page 94 in MT:RM, please, specify it.

*when I say "destoyed", I mean "damaged beyond repair", not just "converted to space dust".

That semantics. A JD reduced to 0 is NOT easily repaired. Where did you come up with that data????

 

[aramis]

That semantics. A JD reduced to 0 is NOT easily repaired. Where did you come up with that data????

Any drive is fairly easily repaired in MT.

Assuming that Jury Rigging is the same difficulty as permanent repairs, but takes less time...
Each HG2 style hit is a difficult task costing 2dx5% for yard repairs, half of which is labor, for 5% to 30% CIP.

reducing to 0 could be a "destroyed" result, for 2d x 2d x 5%, for 20% to 5220% yard Cost, or 10% to 2500% CIP, and a formidable task. Usually cheaper to replace.

Or, it could be just reduced to inoperative, which would mean more hit removals.

The Critical Hit to the Jump Drive might not even be a destroyed result - the wording is "disabled" and means, in practical terms, only that it cannot be jury rigged.

 

[rancke]

To anyone else interested in this general topic, I would invite you to share speculations or specific examples of rules from other versions of Traveller that may have made it into Mongoose Traveller.

Large chunks of GT:Sword Worlds were cut and pasted into MgT:Sword Worlds. Which, I want to make clear, I thouroughly approve of, in principle (Why reinvent the wheel? ). Unfortunately, the author forgot to backdate the 1120 GTU information to 1105 (where the information would have applied equally well to the OTU), leaving the text full of references to post-1111 features.


Hans

 

[HG_B]

Any drive is fairly easily repaired in MT.

reducing to 0 could be a "destroyed" result, for 2d x 2d x 5%, for 20% to 5220% yard Cost, or 10% to 2500% CIP, and a formidable task. Usually cheaper to replace.

Which was my example and, my point...

 

[aramis]

Which was my example and, my point...

And you cut off the rest which boils down to the part you quoted being "maybe, but probably not"...

Even the crit might not be a Destroyed drive. Reduction to 0 in MT isn't readily equated to actual damage nor directly to the damage repair rules in the task system.

The problem is mitigated with the inop/dest mechanics - if it works, it's minor or superficial (GM call); if it doesn't it's major; if its out of hits, it's destroyed.