Look again. There's no place to download a T5 pdf.
My say on T5.
- Thread starter Dracous
- Start date
Look again. There's no place to download a T5 pdf.
I apologize. You are correct. The T5-PDF is on the T5-CDROM.
No need to apologize. It would be assumed that they were being sold downloadable.
You should stop right there. In my experience a lot of reviewers (and not just for T5, but in general) just repeat what others say; and so far most negative reviews seem to come down to two major issues: a dislike of roll-under systems and/or the production values of the book.
On the production values I can be short: the book is clumsily laid out, and it has a ton of irritating errata. Those are fair criticisms.
Criticism on the mechanics is a matter of taste, but a fair few reviewers (and some prolific posters on CotI) seem to forget that their taste is not the measure of things. I happen to be neutral on this issue, so I am left with the actual systems themselves.
And what is clear from the first read is that the core mechanics are well thought out. In the data to feed the mechanics there may be errors (see the errata for the Career tables), but the mechanics themselves are solid, and easy to pick up.
I ran a pickup game at a local RPG meetup, and from the very start it ran smoothly.
T5 seems to be designed to be a grab-bag; you pick your level of crunch, and the book will provide; from almost no rolling RP heavy to starships designs down to the last square meter, every style is accounted for in the rules, and all subsystems have a clean relationship, so picking your level of depth is easy.
See if you can find someone who has the book, and give the game a whirl. You might change your mind, or you might not, but at least you will be better informed.
I've only seen one review like that.
So, since you said a lot of REVIEWERS do that, can you point to at least hmmm.. 4 of them?
You admit you've seen at least one, and I specifically said I made a general point, so I think my point stands.
FYI, I noticed this trend on other games first, like the constant putdowns of D&D4 (which was an awful game, but a lot of reviewers merely restated other reviewers) or the grumbling about Hero System v6 (complaints about the loss of Figured Characteristics. D'oh, that was the point of v6).
NO. I said I ONLY saw one. YOU said MANY. That you can't point to ANY makes the point. :rofl:
Spaceresearcher
SOC-12
Terrific. It's great to hear of other Travellers like yourself, enjoying the new work. My issues are mainly in terms of having to convince other Travellers of the great system that is T5. The players in my group, all wanted to like T5, but so far, there not. This is a shame as I see the game it wants to be and I like it. It's just such a shame that after all that Beta testing etc, that all those errors were not corrected before it went to print.
You specifically said that you were speaking from your own personal experience. So what is that personal experience you speak of?
Personally I can't recall any reviewer that hadn't read the book he was reviewing, although I won't rule out the possibility that there may be some.
Hans
Spaceresearcher
SOC-12
Superb. I really want T5 to succeed myself as echoing what others have said, it really does allow you to be as simple or as detailed as you want to be. It's just such a shame that a lot of long time Traveller fans are rejecting the work, many in it's entirety. Sadly a lot of them have good reason to. The points I've made where simply issues I feel must be addressed at some stage to get it right so to speak and in the name of total honesty.
I think the secret is going to be to have one person (per rule section) who becomes a master of that section of the rules (character creation, land combat, ship combat, economics, and ship design).
The design seems to be VERY thorough. So, for a Traveller gamer to NOT like the game will probably only happen if there's a non-game element that gets in the way. The previous paragraph would remove one of those stopping blocks: Rules that require learning them while playing (i.e. poorly written mechanics that have to be "figured out"). There's very little that kills a game faster than combats that require you peer into the rules 20 times just to finish round 1. I think T5 has that covered IF there's at least one person who really understands it.
you have essentially slandered/libeled the majority of reviewers. [m;]Please consider your tone carefully, you're pretty close to infraction turf.[/m;]
I personally still don't see the need for probability tables here. You can reference the basic description of skill levels to get the same result, for example someone with level 5 in a skill has mastered it while someone with 1 in it is a novice. Thats all the information i need, and since i don't know what rolls i will need to make for an NPC until the session, based on the players actions, i still can't see the need for a probability table to tell me the odds of making a particular roll. Also most of the rolls during a session are crucial rolls so once you have asked a player to roll they have to roll, does it really matter what chance they have of making the roll?, it just matters whether they make it or not.
Don't get me wrong, i love maths, i like the tables for what they are, but i don't think they are necessary in a roleplaying book. I would have liked to see a travel time formula, and then a chart of numbers based on world sizes, atmospheres and diameters already worked out (like MT) but the formula would have been fine. As it is i have done all that work myself and i'm using them in place of the rather long travel times suggested by the range band movement rules.
daltoncalford
SOC-12
It would be great if Marc gave permission for the text/format/layout/artwork of starter traveller to be used as a basis for a re-flow/re-design of T5.
Leave out all the builders, leave out all the genetics etc. Only include enough to play the game with a couple of simple adventures.
Any traveller player, regardless of version, would get to see/use the core mechanics in a simple format.
Since all the material is written, it would just be a matter of layout/editing and example creation.
Leave out all the builders, leave out all the genetics etc. Only include enough to play the game with a couple of simple adventures.
Any traveller player, regardless of version, would get to see/use the core mechanics in a simple format.
Since all the material is written, it would just be a matter of layout/editing and example creation.
daltoncalford
SOC-12
Well, I don't think I would be the best person to do it.
Although I have OCR'd the entire text, I would just naturally tweak the rules as I am integrating them with T5 stuff.
Gone would be the roll low mechanic. Gone would be the C1/C2 stuff (that can come back in later books in the same way it was introduced in the alien modules in CT).
I would add character templates for players to pick/choose from instead of needing to roll from scratch. I would likely also add a point based build system.
Overall, it would not look like T5. It would be a divergent version and I don't think Marc would want that.
For example the entire section in T5 about the imperium etc would be handled by this one blurb in the definitions section
OTU (Official Traveller Universe): While the rules allow you to create everything, it is often nice to have something already prepared for your gaming sessions. The Official Traveller Universe has been building for over 30 years with the work of thousands of players building up a future history spanning millennia. Companies have produced support materials, adventures, stories and even full novels all set in the OTU. Like all role-playing games, you are free to pick and choose which parts of the OTU you want to bring into your own games or just use the OTU as an example of how to build your own setting. OTU materials can be found in various publications on-line and in your friendly neighbourhood game store.
Although I have OCR'd the entire text, I would just naturally tweak the rules as I am integrating them with T5 stuff.
Gone would be the roll low mechanic. Gone would be the C1/C2 stuff (that can come back in later books in the same way it was introduced in the alien modules in CT).
I would add character templates for players to pick/choose from instead of needing to roll from scratch. I would likely also add a point based build system.
Overall, it would not look like T5. It would be a divergent version and I don't think Marc would want that.
For example the entire section in T5 about the imperium etc would be handled by this one blurb in the definitions section
OTU (Official Traveller Universe): While the rules allow you to create everything, it is often nice to have something already prepared for your gaming sessions. The Official Traveller Universe has been building for over 30 years with the work of thousands of players building up a future history spanning millennia. Companies have produced support materials, adventures, stories and even full novels all set in the OTU. Like all role-playing games, you are free to pick and choose which parts of the OTU you want to bring into your own games or just use the OTU as an example of how to build your own setting. OTU materials can be found in various publications on-line and in your friendly neighbourhood game store.
Marc did promise a "Player's Book" as part of the Kickstarter, hopefully it would be something like that.
Something like that would be perfect. Perhaps a simple introduction, rather than the full blown T5 player book.
Generate a character, choose some equipment packs, jump on a ship that has been supplied in the document, run through a simple supplied adventure and learn the system. A bit like D&D Mentzer Red Box.
Save the makers and all that for later.
Generate a character, choose some equipment packs, jump on a ship that has been supplied in the document, run through a simple supplied adventure and learn the system. A bit like D&D Mentzer Red Box.
Save the makers and all that for later.
