Supplement Four
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Understand your point, but why then have all the verbage and throws about using unrefined fuel?
If all civilan ships have purifiers, then the stuff about unrefined fuel is really moot.
Fuel Purification Plant
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If all civilan ships have purifiers, then the stuff about unrefined fuel is really moot.
Supplement Four
SOC-14 5K
Understand your point, but why then have all the verbage and throws about using unrefined fuel?
If all civilan ships have purifiers, then the stuff about unrefined fuel is really moot.
BlackBat242
SOC-14 1K
I have always read the "unrefined fuel" statement as meaning that Scout ships in particular had no purification plant, being designed to use unrefined fuel so as to save mass/volume on such a small ship.
Good point, however... I suppose then that the book 2 ships did not have them.
You see, I first started playing Traveller in 1983... and purchased books 1-5 at the same time, so I never really used the inefficient ship design rules in book 2, having used book 5 from the start.
The oversized drives in book 2 really only made sense if there was something different about the book 2 drives than the book 5 ones... like an integral purification plant.
I had assumed those comments reflected a ship with an inoperative purification plant.
Good point, however... I suppose then that the book 2 ships did not have them.
You see, I first started playing Traveller in 1983... and purchased books 1-5 at the same time, so I never really used the inefficient ship design rules in book 2, having used book 5 from the start.
The oversized drives in book 2 really only made sense if there was something different about the book 2 drives than the book 5 ones... like an integral purification plant.
I had assumed those comments reflected a ship with an inoperative purification plant.
BlackBat242
SOC-14 1K
I have always read the "unrefined fuel" statement as meaning that Scout ships in particular had no purification plant, being designed to use unrefined fuel so as to save mass/volume on such a small ship.
Good point, however... I suppose then that the book 2 ships did not have them.
You see, I first started playing Traveller in 1983... and purchased books 1-5 at the same time, so I never really used the inefficient ship design rules in book 2, having used book 5 from the start.
The oversized drives in book 2 really only made sense if there was something different about the book 2 drives than the book 5 ones... like an integral purification plant.
I had assumed those comments reflected a ship with an inoperative purification plant.
Good point, however... I suppose then that the book 2 ships did not have them.
You see, I first started playing Traveller in 1983... and purchased books 1-5 at the same time, so I never really used the inefficient ship design rules in book 2, having used book 5 from the start.
The oversized drives in book 2 really only made sense if there was something different about the book 2 drives than the book 5 ones... like an integral purification plant.
I had assumed those comments reflected a ship with an inoperative purification plant.
I wouldn't think there would be need to skim in a civilized system. Check out this thread:
Orbital Refineries
Might be helpful...
Orbital Refineries
Might be helpful...
I wouldn't think there would be need to skim in a civilized system. Check out this thread:
Orbital Refineries
Might be helpful...
Orbital Refineries
Might be helpful...
MTU is B2, so it's not so much about on-board purification as it is about whether the drives require purified fuel or not to operate safely.
B2 drives are specified as Naval (or even Scout) versus Commercial, with the Naval drives being able to burn unrefined at no penalty.
All military vessels get military drives, of course. Commercial vessels have a choice: streamlined Traders intended for frontier operations prefer Naval drives, whereas Subsidized vessels and those that make scheduled runs tend to be unstreamlined and nearly always require refined fuel (easy enough to do planetside and send up in a tanker) in order to deter hijacking and other corsair activities.
So, fuel requirements IMTU are driven mostly by expected fuel sources, and are built in to the drives at no particular cost (an oversight in B2; Naval drives should carry a surcharge, of course).
MTU is B2, so it's not so much about on-board purification as it is about whether the drives require purified fuel or not to operate safely.
B2 drives are specified as Naval (or even Scout) versus Commercial, with the Naval drives being able to burn unrefined at no penalty.
All military vessels get military drives, of course. Commercial vessels have a choice: streamlined Traders intended for frontier operations prefer Naval drives, whereas Subsidized vessels and those that make scheduled runs tend to be unstreamlined and nearly always require refined fuel (easy enough to do planetside and send up in a tanker) in order to deter hijacking and other corsair activities.
So, fuel requirements IMTU are driven mostly by expected fuel sources, and are built in to the drives at no particular cost (an oversight in B2; Naval drives should carry a surcharge, of course).
Supplement Four
SOC-14 5K
I like your take.
But...wouldn't a fuel purifier make the LHyd ready for consumption regardless of PP/Drive type?
The purifier "purifies" it, right? Makes it "refined" fuel, just like what the ship would buy at the starport for 500Cr a ton?
And, since Book 5 mentions purifiers as equipment (and they're mentioned in Trillion Credit Squadron too), it would seem to me that a civilan ship could easily use fuel that has been refined and purified by the purifier.
My guess is the purifier is really a "refiner" or a minature LHyd refinery that's attached to the ship. It's a "still" for liquid hydrogen.
Supplement Four
SOC-14 5K
I like your take.
But...wouldn't a fuel purifier make the LHyd ready for consumption regardless of PP/Drive type?
The purifier "purifies" it, right? Makes it "refined" fuel, just like what the ship would buy at the starport for 500Cr a ton?
And, since Book 5 mentions purifiers as equipment (and they're mentioned in Trillion Credit Squadron too), it would seem to me that a civilan ship could easily use fuel that has been refined and purified by the purifier.
My guess is the purifier is really a "refiner" or a minature LHyd refinery that's attached to the ship. It's a "still" for liquid hydrogen.
Yeah, but like your average petroleum refinery, I figure it's a fairly huge facility with the implied fractionating towers and maybe centrufuges and massive condensing cryotanks and burnoff stacks for the by-products that can't be recovered and repurposed -- all that sort of elaborate, labyrinthine industrial infrastructure. Thus, it's not really something that's well-suited to shipboard installation. And besides, it'd be a waste of space since Naval drives carry no surcharge and displace no more space, B2-wise.
Yeah, but like your average petroleum refinery, I figure it's a fairly huge facility with the implied fractionating towers and maybe centrufuges and massive condensing cryotanks and burnoff stacks for the by-products that can't be recovered and repurposed -- all that sort of elaborate, labyrinthine industrial infrastructure. Thus, it's not really something that's well-suited to shipboard installation. And besides, it'd be a waste of space since Naval drives carry no surcharge and displace no more space, B2-wise.
Supplement Four
SOC-14 5K
What do you think the fuel purifiers listed in High Guard and Trillion Credit Squadron are used for, then, if not "refining fuel"?
Supplement Four
SOC-14 5K
What do you think the fuel purifiers listed in High Guard and Trillion Credit Squadron are used for, then, if not "refining fuel"?
TheEngineer
SOC-14 1K
Hi !
Well, thinking of all the technical stuff already pushed into a starship hull IMHO a purification unit does not make things worse
In fact the technology involved could be handled with 70 year old real world tech and should not be a challenge for space faring socienties.
Those plants indeed take up a little bit of volume, but costs are really low and the "ROI" should be fairly high.
So basically I see no technical or economical reason not to install one on a commercial ship.
Even when its "just" used as a backup system, its offering at least the opertunity to get useable fuel at remote places.
Using this argument its perhaps just plain dumb not to install one ...?
Regards,
TE
Well, thinking of all the technical stuff already pushed into a starship hull IMHO a purification unit does not make things worse
In fact the technology involved could be handled with 70 year old real world tech and should not be a challenge for space faring socienties.
Those plants indeed take up a little bit of volume, but costs are really low and the "ROI" should be fairly high.
So basically I see no technical or economical reason not to install one on a commercial ship.
Even when its "just" used as a backup system, its offering at least the opertunity to get useable fuel at remote places.
Using this argument its perhaps just plain dumb not to install one ...?
Regards,
TE
TheEngineer
SOC-14 1K
Hi !
Well, thinking of all the technical stuff already pushed into a starship hull IMHO a purification unit does not make things worse
In fact the technology involved could be handled with 70 year old real world tech and should not be a challenge for space faring socienties.
Those plants indeed take up a little bit of volume, but costs are really low and the "ROI" should be fairly high.
So basically I see no technical or economical reason not to install one on a commercial ship.
Even when its "just" used as a backup system, its offering at least the opertunity to get useable fuel at remote places.
Using this argument its perhaps just plain dumb not to install one ...?
Regards,
TE
Well, thinking of all the technical stuff already pushed into a starship hull IMHO a purification unit does not make things worse
In fact the technology involved could be handled with 70 year old real world tech and should not be a challenge for space faring socienties.
Those plants indeed take up a little bit of volume, but costs are really low and the "ROI" should be fairly high.
So basically I see no technical or economical reason not to install one on a commercial ship.
Even when its "just" used as a backup system, its offering at least the opertunity to get useable fuel at remote places.
Using this argument its perhaps just plain dumb not to install one ...?
Regards,
TE
What do you think the fuel purifiers listed in High Guard and Trillion Credit Squadron are used for, then, if not "refining fuel"? </font>[/QUOTE]Nothing, in my B2 TU; they're unneeded.
If you really, really, really want one (so, for example, you could operate as a tanker for other ships), it would be an optional fitting, like a laboratory or a vehicle repair shop or something out of later versions of the game.
In a B2 TU, typically the only ships that need refined fuel are the ones deliberately designed to require it for some special operational consideration...
It's seldom an issue. Class A and B starports don't even keep refined fuel in inventory; they refine it on-demand in those rare situations where someone shows up and explicitly wants it.
What do you think the fuel purifiers listed in High Guard and Trillion Credit Squadron are used for, then, if not "refining fuel"? </font>[/QUOTE]Nothing, in my B2 TU; they're unneeded.
If you really, really, really want one (so, for example, you could operate as a tanker for other ships), it would be an optional fitting, like a laboratory or a vehicle repair shop or something out of later versions of the game.
In a B2 TU, typically the only ships that need refined fuel are the ones deliberately designed to require it for some special operational consideration...
It's seldom an issue. Class A and B starports don't even keep refined fuel in inventory; they refine it on-demand in those rare situations where someone shows up and explicitly wants it.
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