GDW's house system

[knirirr]

When I first saw T:2300 (as soon as it came out) I thought that the rules system was fairly good*. In fact, I'd rather use that than the D20 system, which seems to me to be very complicated as well has having a "level" system in it, which I don't like.
Am I in a very small minority in liking the older rules? Also, are there conversion notes between the GDW and D20 systems about? I will definitely be purchasing the dead tree 2320, but would prefer to stick with the system I already know.

* Excepting combat, but I'm hardly ever happy with game combat systems and tend to avoid combat anyway.

 

[Colin]

There will be (limited) conversion notes in the back of 2320AD. More for bringing old characters into the new system rather than the reverse. Of course, given those assumptions, you could do some reverse-engineering.
All adventures, at least will be dual-statted for 2320 and 2300AD.

Colin Dunn
2320AD Writer and Line Editor

 

[Nearside]

I think it's fair to say that the vast majority of the book is background, with a relatively small amount of system - a good balance, if I may say so.

 

[knirirr]

Sounds good to me - thanks.

 

[Jame]

What was GDW's house system, anyways?

 

[robject]

Wasn't it the T2000/TNE rules?

 

[knirirr]

It was indeed the T:2000 rules set, as described in this interesting rant:

http://members.ozemail.com.au/~iandl57/rant.html

Another thought - is there to be any formalisation or 'canonisation' of the large amount of material on various space navies that's about on the net?
There's some good stuff about (e.g. the Etranger site) that would make a good book. I always liked Star Cruiser, but found STOFA disappointingly basic.

 

[Colin]

The house system was v2 of the Twilight rules set, the same used by Dark Conspiracy and Cadillacs and Dinosaurs, along with TNE. There were plans to revamp 2300AD to use the same rules, but GDW folded before those plans could come about. I rather liked the system, though chargen was very involved.

The rant is off-base on a few points, I think, and just plain wrong on some others, at least relating to Twilight/2300. I won't speak to his other points, though I do understand them. I may not agree, but I do understand...

As for the issue of "canonising" the Etranger orbats (orders of battle) and such, there is a possibility. Not immediately, nor exactly how they appear on that site, but much of that material is very good. In any case, such a project would be 1-2 years away. If nothing else, I haven't actually talked to anyone about this yet.

Colin Dunn
2320AD writer and line editor

 

[Jame]

I meant, could someone describe it for me? (I have the TNE core rules but never really tried to figure it out; if it's explained I might (as in may) try to.)

 

[robject]

I can't describe it specifically. If I heard it right, it is not unlike MT's system, except it uses 2d10 instead of 2d6.

 

[ChaserCaffey]

Nope, that's not the one. The GDW House System works thus:

1) Your character has an asset for a particular task, consisting of a stat and a skill rating. For example, if you're trying to patch up your buddy after he's taken a gauss dart in the arm, the appropriate skill would be First Aid, which I think is controlled off of Intelligence. Your asset for the task would thus be the sum of your Intelligence stat and your First Aid skill.

2) The task has a difficulty level, ranging from Easy to Impossible. At Easy, you multiply your asset by (IIRC) 4 before rolling, at Average by 2, at Difficult by 1, at Formidable by 1/2, and at Impossible by 1/4.

3) Roll a D20. If the roll comes in under your modified asset, you succeed. If not, you fail. If you succeed or fail by 10 or more, you score a Critical Success or Catastrophic Failure, which are essentially calls for GM creativity.

The mechanic itself is a little bulky, but not that bad by the standards of the time it was written- it allows for both innate ability, training, and the circumstances under which a task is undertaken. Combat is another story, partly due to some pretty horrible initiative rules and partly due to some cumbersome sets of modifiers that necessitate a lot of flipping through the rule book.

 

[knirirr]

Just for my information, how which books would be the minimum necessary in order to play 2320 if one had no knowledge of the D20 system and owned no products relating to it? Am I correct in thinking that one would need 2320, T20 Lite and the D20 Modern core rules? Or, is the full T20 handbook necessary?

 

[Colin]

There is an upcoming T20 Guidebook, which is a player's handbook for Traveller D20. That, an d2320AD, is all you need. That or the T20 Handbook is required, however, for the various classes, and the T20 modifications to the D20 rulesset. You could make do with 2320AD, T20 Lite and D20 Modern, and I do have limikted conversion notes for D20 Modern/Future in the back of 2320AD. But it is designed for use with T20.

Colin Dunn
2320AD Writer and Line Editor

 

[Jump6]

I wanted to revisit this thread on the GDW house system. Is there any current place on the web where some info for converting 2300 is available?

Thanks.

 

[TWILIGHT]

MUCH preferred T2Kv1 rules. Combat system almost built from real world combat (I did my bit for Queen & Country ) The 'breadth' of the damage rolled felt absolutely real the charcter gen was probably the best, most detailed i've seen.... Vehicle combat was a bit of a nightmare though!
Only used the 2300AD rules twice....the players hated it so we converted it to Chaosium's BRP (Cthulhu, RQ etc) which works much better even if it's much less precise. Didn't much like the system in T2Kv2.
Not a fan of d20 that much. TOO complicated. As a GM you need to know the rules. I think the players need to be able to PLAY. I try to take as much pains to relieve the players of rules as I can, it's only then that the drama and pathos can come out. However, with d20 not only does the GM need to know EVERY rule, skill, spell, etc but he also has to know exactly what the pc's can throw at his adventure... and then the players have to know every minutae of what their character can do. Way too much aggro. Mage can suffer from the same thing I think. Beautiful game but you can do literally anything and that can be too much for some players who need a little structure. If any of you are at UKGAMESEXPO in the Uk 2-3 june then I'm running Cthulhu:Adventus on the sunday (Cthulhu meets stargate meets 1984)so sci-fi can work with BRP. I'm getting 2320AD not for the rules but the setting. I'm currently trying to encourage one of my players to gm D&D again so he can run 2320AD when it appears (Steff is currently running on Sneaky XP!)
ALL of the above is just my honest opinion.

 

[Uncle Bob]

Concur. I think it was the last gasp of GDW's wargame heritage. Murph used the T2K v1 rules to run a cotemporary adventure setting. It worked very well, but for some reason he eventually moved that campaign to Cyberpunk rules.

Having every "shot" be three rounds of ammo was counter intuitive, but worked well after we reconciled with it.

 

[Colin]

I once used the T2K v1 rules to run an Outland-esque adventure set on Mars, with overtones of Aliens as well. It was fun, but the vehicle rules kinda stymied me.

 

[tlindsey]

Along with knirirr, I would have much preferred an updated 2300AD system to the D20/T20 system. Task resolution was very good (based on the original MegaTraveller/DGP system). Combat could use some streamlining and the whole system could do without so many fractional values, but overall, I liked it.

 

[epicenter00]

Originally posted by tlindsey:
Combat could use some streamlining and the whole system could do without so many fractional values, but overall, I liked it.

That's really interesting you say that tlindsey about 2300. I've run 2300, T2K, and GDW House for decades now. I found (and find) that 2300's combat system is literally the FASTEST moving of all of GDW's games, a combat that took 20-30 minutes for Twilight:2000 v1 and and like 45 minutes GDW House System I can resolve in like 10-15 minutes in 2300.

The primary problem with 2300's combat system is that it is absolute at times - you don't roll dice for damage. You compare the DPV of the weapon against the armor and away you go, which makes it extremely fast for gun combat. This combined with NPC quick-kill rules and that and it's really easy to hit (or you just use autofire/area fire which doesn't even require you to have gun skills and you can still score lots of hits with any decent autofire weapon) means that combat doesn't last many rounds.

I could go for pages how 2300 system's combat system could be fixed (if people are interested I can post what I've changed for those interested in going "Auld Schoole" for 2320), but speed isn't something I'd fault 2300 for.

 

[knirirr]

I'd be interested to see your changes if you fancy posting them.