Going back to moon.

[eiladayn]

We don't need any deep space objects, only one of the hundreds of asteroids that cross both Earth's and Mars' orbit every year, there are several excellent candidates we're so familiar with that they have names (not just numbers). There are sev eral with orbits suitable to be used now and probably a hundred we could "boost" to a suitable orbit with a little work. Then let gravity do the boosting to Mars. It'll work, I promise.

Pappy

 

[savage]

Stage one is cheap reusable ground to orbit. Only once we can fly people and materials to orbit and back cheaply can stages 2+ realy work.
Stage two is Gateway station (orbital or Lagrange) with the factories and shipyard. Moon base also crops up here as part of the support structure.
Stage three Mars. Build the ships at the shipyard built in stage two, fly to mars.
Stage four. The rest of the solar system.
Stage five. INTERSTELLAR..........

We're in agreement. I brought up the same thing in August or September....
Except. I suggested a two orbit systems
one would be standard heavy lift rockets the second a space plane with jet and rocket engines.
I also would build 2 mars capable research vessels incase one gets into trouble and needs assistance.


On a more uplifted note, I made CNN last night.
Lou Dobbs read my pro-space program email on TV.
"Its good to see America investing in its future and the space program again. Mars here we come!"

Its important to keep sending the press, gov't officials and those running for office our concerns and preferences. If they shot down
the re-allocation of NASA budget they'd essentially close the doors between 2010 and 2015.

Did anyone catch anti-NASA Gore on the news? 4 years ago didn't he invent the space program?

Savage

 

[OIT]

One thing to consider: The President has stated his intention to ask for $12 billion over five years for the space program. That works out to $40 for every U.S. citizen or $8 per year.

I think it's worth that.

 

[Richard Saunders]

Originally posted by Captain Jonah:
[QB] Low rental price on the scafolding. Charges per hour or part thereof. Warning use of scafolding is at own risk, anyone falling of is on thier own unless they wish to take advantage of my handy autodac, very reasonable rates.
---------------------------------------------
Hello Captain Jonah.
My lawyers will be in touch with your lawyers about the fact you didn't have a full and complete warning sign on your scaffolding.
You totaly failed to mention that there may be NUTS involved.

Bye.

 

[jfwking]

Originally posted by Lionel Deffries:

Originally posted by Captain Jonah:
[QB] Low rental price on the scafolding. Charges per hour or part thereof. Warning use of scafolding is at own risk, anyone falling of is on thier own unless they wish to take advantage of my handy autodac, very reasonable rates.
---------------------------------------------
Hello Captain Jonah.
My lawyers will be in touch with your lawyers about the fact you didn't have a full and complete warning sign on your scaffolding.
You totaly failed to mention that there may be NUTS involved.

Bye.

Nuts, what nuts. Finest quality spaceformed scafolding with molecular bindings and full warranty. I am appauled you should suggest otherwise. My laywers representatives mr S Hark and co will be round to have a word as soon as they locate your current wereabouts.

 

[kafka47]

I am glad that America is getting back into space in a big way recreating that vision thing. My only concern is: don't you think this just an another boondogle that is designed to keep Bush elected as it will create valuable distractions during an election that will not focus on correcting the American economy? And, such a mission would put severe strain on an economy very much on the skids?

When the USSR & USA competed for the moon the first time, they were both booming economies. (Less so, with the USSR but they still had a contented population who would have believed that it was better to be on the Moon than to have blue jeans...the reverse came in the 1970s).

 

[savage]

My only concern is: don't you think this just an another boondogle that is designed to keep Bush elected as it will create valuable distractions during an election that will not focus on correcting the American economy? And, such a mission would put severe strain on an economy very much on the skids?

The president basically gave NASA what has been lacking for 30 years, long-term vision. The present budget is receiving a slight increase but in actuality existing program will reach their planned ending and NASA will still be in business.

So, by not providing NASA with a direction and new projects it would essentially end American space flight within a decade. Hubble has reached life expectancy, the shuttles are close too. And our initial committment to building ISS will have reached its closure.

I think its important that NASA receives additional dollars for these programs but that is something to discuss in the future as plans are actually defined.


Savage

 

[pennshome723]

The nation needs a direction to look towards in regards to space, and the goals that Bush has set are achievable within the time frame that he has basically laid out.

 

[Falkayn]

Originally posted by Kafka47:
I am glad that America is getting back into space in a big way recreating that vision thing. My only concern is: don't you think this just an another boondogle that is designed to keep Bush elected as it will create valuable distractions during an election that will not focus on correcting the American economy? And, such a mission would put severe strain on an economy very much on the skids?

IMHO (and I'm not an American voter), it seems to me that Bush is going after what HE wants to do ... he did with Iraq, and he seems to be doing it with this space policy. I don't see a problem with this, he IS after all supposed to be a leader and that is a fundamental part of what leaders do (i.e. get people to follow where they want to go).

At the end of the day people need a vision of where they are going, Bush seems capable of providing that at a time when his opponents do not. Whether his vision is a good thing for America is another point entirely ... but I suspect it will be good for his re-election chances. I DON'T think he is doing that for political reasons, I think the guy just wants to see NASA actually achieve something we've all been dreaming of since the 60's.

There are easier ways for Bush to stay re-elected. They are to use the usual political tools of pandering to the latest opinion polls, whilst pretending that you have a strong idea of where you are going ... Bush does NOT seem to be doing that. Again, that is MHO.

 

[Richard Saunders]

Originally posted by Captain Jonah:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Lionel Deffries:

Originally posted by Captain Jonah:
[QB] Low rental price on the scafolding. Charges per hour or part thereof. Warning use of scafolding is at own risk, anyone falling of is on thier own unless they wish to take advantage of my handy autodac, very reasonable rates.
---------------------------------------------
Hello Captain Jonah.
My lawyers will be in touch with your lawyers about the fact you didn't have a full and complete warning sign on your scaffolding.
You totaly failed to mention that there may be NUTS involved.

Bye.

Nuts, what nuts. Finest quality spaceformed scafolding with molecular bindings and full warranty. I am appauled you should suggest otherwise. My laywers representatives mr S Hark and co will be round to have a word as soon as they locate your current wereabouts.

</font>

Hello.
Your lawyer Mr S Hark and my lawyer Mr W Pointer are even as we speak dividing up our money.
Of course nuts are involved (us).
My molecular engineer has done a chemical analysis of the molecular binding compound you use and he found it was super glue (the cheep kind), Also the space formed scaffolding was several sets of LEGO tm.
Are you shore you dont work for NASA (cheepest quote).

Bye.

 

[pennshome723]

Regardless of Bush's reasons, once a snowball starts rolling down hill...it is real hard to stop it. There seems to be alot of true interests in this in the media, and pop culture. It seems many of the polls are saying that people "want to see" men return to the moon, and the space station completed.

Next let them build a huge space observatory on the moon, and start mining the moon for H3 and other such minerials and everyone will be singing a different tune.

 

[Hecateus]

Hi ho!
haven't been here in a while, but I thought I would mention some observations I have mader re: bushies plans:

1. Conventional commercial launchers (such as Deltas and Atlas rockets) will lift CEV and related components for activities and assemblies in orbit.

1.1 All Bush can be reasonably expected to do is get this underway...more likely to succeed if he is reelected.

1.2 Foreign launchers will be able to get into the act on equal footing.

1.3 Launch costs will drop due to the increased demand on competitive commercial launchers to support CEV activities/Moonbase etc.

1.4 Due to little chance for beaurocratic interference on the initial step, success without wasting money on beaurocrats is probable.

2. Because of #1, after the Shuttles are mothballed, NASA will not be funding a large army of technicians.

3. Because of #2, more money will be available for CEV stuff, Moonbase, and other nifty stuff (replacement for ISS, Mars, yada yada)

It's a good idea...am still not voting for Bush though.

It does not mention some thing I think are important:
A. Commercial intercontinental Sub-orbital transports...this idea needs support. Good basis for 1st stage of a 2-stage to orbit fully reusable craft.

B. Space Elevator! I mean...COME ON! Eleveators are like, exciting right!

C. X-prize needs to be expanded.

D. Address UN Space and Moon Treaty with respect to property rights and security (ya know ...Space Pirates et al)

Cheers

 

[jfwking]

A good point to consider raised here. The UN has managed throught great effort to wipe away most of its own credability and influence.
So in the near future when private corps start filing mining claims and when nations (well the US to start with) establish "offworld colonies" what will be the laws covering them.
There are already enough idiots out there trying to twist existing laws to claim ownership of the moon.
I don't see space pirates being a problem for a while yet, land grabbing on the other hand is much more likely in court if not on the land in question.

 

[Hecateus]

dem dang claim jumpers and rock wrastlers!

 

[savage]

D. Address UN Space and Moon Treaty with respect to property rights and security (ya know ...Space Pirates et al)

First come, first serve basis. More than likely they'd just need to setup zones of control. Its a big place, the moon. Don't think its urgent.
Don't ya think we need to get up there before we worry about militarizing space.

Space Elevator!

The resources to build this are not within our bounds. A dual engine (jet/rocket) orbiter is an quicker bet for now.


Penn-

t seems many of the polls are saying that people "want to see" men return to the moon, and the space station completed.

I've been seeing the opposite, unfortunately. Everyone assumes its not affordable. Fact is that there is a lot of rhetoric and not a lot of listening to Bush's comments.

Savage

 

[Jame]

Kinda surprising, since I actually agree with Bush Baby on this.

 

[kafka47]

My dear Australian Traveller, of course, there are other ways to get elected...and not being a US citizen either.

The Moon/Mars couplet rings all together suspicious in my mind. I grant you that Bush is a mild America-First-er and hard nosed conservative. But, if wants to give NASA the vision thing then he might at least survey the World Order that has been created since the First Gulf War (91).

The landscape for NASA or even private capital is shaky at best. Using the UN would certainly make Traveller players happy (as in AM: Solomani) and make us think we are going to see the Vilani instead of the Kafers...-

But, Bush seems to want to inflict his budget deficit on other parts of the world and I am just afraid when the bubble will burst. The so-called Asian contagion we all feared a few years back would be a ripple in a bath tub in comparison. And, you will remember how much Canada & Australia has/is paying for that blip...

 

[Pagan priest]

Originally posted by Jame]:
Kinda surprising, since I actually agree with Bush Baby on this.

Well, a stopped clock is right twice a day!

 

[Jame]

Heh heh. Well, if it ain't roit at least once there's gotta be a problem!

 

[Richard Saunders]

Originally posted by Jame]:
Heh heh. Well, if it ain't roit at least once there's gotta be a problem!

Hello.
Not if it's a twentyfour hour clock.
Bye.