How to handle a sticky situation in a module

[Dagrill]

Hi,

Having read the module, my thoughts were along the lines that the players include a merchant character who has a free trader as a mustering out benefit. As an initial inducement the IN installs a J2 drive and systems & 2triple missile turrets and provides at least 20 military missiles.

Future benefits include the possiblility of acquiring a sword world blockade runner & working out how to keep it.

To keep them on track sundry dock workers, bureacrats, pirates, fences etc from their past can turn up wearing INI uniforms (one of the characters may even be INI) + there is the black prince & the secret research base.

I think this module has bags of possiblities & would love to hear how your groups fares.

Regards

david

 

[Captain Midnight]

What you have here is a meta-game issue, sometimes known as the "I'm not going in that scary scary dungeon!" problem. Obviously, the Commodore needs the PCs for some reason, and she has good reason to believe that they won't comply with her wishes just because she bats her eyes and says 'pretty please". She had to have some sort of plan for getting them to cooperate with her when they weren't immediately under her thumb, which argues for either a strong positive motivator ("I'll make sure your goal of X is met", and X may be money, or fame, or something else the PCs want), a strong negative motivator ("I'll make your lives so awful that you'll wish you'd never been born"), or some combination thereof. As the GM, it's your job to have figured this out beforehand; module creators can sometimes give you a few ideas, but they won't know anything about your group or how it works. Also, while some adventures tell interesting stories, others are not exactly models of consistency with other material, and that can pose a problem sometimes.

In this situation, there has to be a reason that the Commodore doesn't just say, "I'm taking your ship away, have a nice life!" (besides the obvious "there's no adventure if that happens"). She needs the PCs for some reason, and unless she's planning on sending along her own flunkies to ensure PC compliance with her directives (in which case, why does she need the PCs?), she shouldn't do anything to strain relations with them. Taking their ship into naval service is unlikely to sit well with them, so she's got to do something to keep them from just running for the border as soon as they're clear. If they're in money trouble, she could make it go away; if they have legal issues, she might be able to arrange a pardon. This is the time at which she needs to reveal her plan to the PCs, and you can play it several different ways.

The "space-lawyer" ex-pirate can be threatened with whatever punishment you think the player will put up with without quitting the game. It might be as blatant as "The guards put you into the general prison population without removing your manacles and say, 'Go get him guys! He's yours for the night!' while banjo music plays in the background," or it might be as subtle as leaving him in solitary confinement until his friends come for him, having been convinced to work for the Commodore. This will depend on just how brutal you feel like portraying Imperial officials; people have differing opinions on the subject. I'd probably settle for a middle ground, threatening to expose him for crimes committed during his pirate career that have an unpleasant local penalty, and point out that there will be evidence aplenty to convict him, even if Naval Intelligence has to manufacture it.

For the other players, the Commodore can stay with her earlier plan, whatever that may be. She can also use the fate of their mouthy friend as an extra hold over them, if she thinks they will care about what happens to him.

Her ultimate goal should be carefully chosen. You can't just file the serial numbers off a WWII movie; there are complications that vary with the setting. For example, if the PCs might encounter resistance, she'll need to think about the idea that they will be interrogated by someone with Truth Drug or telepathy; if the PCs know anything, it's possible that the enemy might discover it. This does pose possibilities if she's setting them up to take a fall, but that's getting pretty baroque.

 

[rancke]

There are a lot of GMs (and fellow gamers at the same table) who resent players who pout when they don't get their way.

Sure. It's like any other social situation, there's always two sides. But I wasn't giving advice to the player.

heroes, it's pretty much the way of things that a hero will be forced to do something he really doesn't want to; Luke Skywalker didn't want to go to Mos Eisley, remember.

Oh. I can come up with lots of other examples. All of them were written by authors who "ran" both the heroes and the villains. Alistair MacLean wrote very good thrillers (better in the first half of his authorship than the second), but I still wouldn't want to play one of his protagininst (especially not the sidekick of a main Alistair MacLean hero ). And some players are perfectly fine with similar treatment. What I said was that some players resented it. What works for some players won't work for others, and a GM should bear that in mind.

I would expect a pirate to be brutally self-serving so getting him to accept goals that don't benefit him directly should require some coercion. But if you allow the player to disproportionately disrupt the game because his ego (not the character's) is bruised, you're setting a bad precedence. In this case, I would more concerned about the other 2, 3, 5, 7, 10 players now sitting anxiously in their chairs waiting for the game to continue; talk about building resentment.

Oh, the player is just as obliged to make the game work as the GM. No argument there. But the operative words are "just as".

I disagree. The enjoyment of the game shouldn't fall squarely on the GM shoulders; this is as much the players' responsibility as the GM's.

I agree, and I never said otherwise. But as I pointed out above, I wasn't giving advice to the player.

If this player can't get satisfaction from solving problems and interacting with the rest of the group in character, then maybe he should stick to board games where the goal is more obvious.

Maybe the original poster would prefer to defuse the situation and work out a solution to escalating the problem.

Regardless of the details, he should be respectful of the GM's position and cut him a break, not the other way around.

I disagree. They should both be mindful of each others' positions and cut each other breaks. It's not a one-way street, and a GM who thinks it is is begging for bad gaming experiences, both for himself and for his palyers.


Hans

 

[Rhialto the Marvelous]

Aramis and Rancke are spot on. (Even though Aramis gets points off for using Forge lingo. :devil

I'm assuming this pirate/commodore altercation is the opening scene, and the PCs need to be conscripted for the adventure to proceed?

To start a game with your PC being coerced may look a little inauspicious to some players, especially if they don't know the GM, as is likely in online games.

Personally, I would have told them OOC before the start: "Your PCs will be conscripted. After that, they have their free will back, within the constraints of the situation."

But as it is it's easy enough to defuse. As somebody upthread suggested, let there be a little jailhouse conversation...

 

[shadowdragon]

commodore:
well thank you for that input. we will adjourn for now, and reconvene as soon as possible. thank you very much for your time. good day


45 days later , in which the pc's have had no luck getting aboard their own ship and their friend has been entertained by the local criminal element, and their local spending accounts graciously provided by the IN for them (at a very low interest rate) are dwindling to nothing. and in which their ship payment has been missed at least once.......

commodore:
ahh there you are. well here, at your request, is an imperial warrant requiring you to assist the local commander, namely me, for the duration. such duration to be determined solely by the local commander, namely me. oh and a further order here to commandeer your vessel as well. for the duration of the emergency. such duration to be determined.... well, you get the point. so shall we begin?.....


knowing nothing of the adventure, i dont know if it can handle a 45 day delay, but if so, there ya go. no threats, no fights, just nice and legal all the way.

 

[Ran Targas]

^ Well played. The totally non-canon TU my group plays in is a little more gritty so please excuse the immediate and excessive use of the stick; I'm sure the IN wields more carrots in the canon universe.

 

[far-trader]

...I'm sure the IN wields more carrots in the canon universe.

:smirk:

"What's orange and displaces 500KTons?"

"An IN carrot, better known as a Tigress class Dreadnaught."

:devil:

 

[rancke]

^ Well played. The totally non-canon TU my group plays in is a little more gritty so please excuse the immediate and excessive use of the stick; I'm sure the IN wields more carrots in the canon universe.

Not really the point. I'm sure the IN wields nuclear missiles in any TU, but it's still doesn't further the plot to place the PCs at ground zero of one. Just as it's perfectly plausible that the Commodore would toss the smart-ass PC into the brig and throw away the key, but it doean't really make the game more enjoyable for the player.

A GM shouldn't have the universe do anything impossible, and he should be careful just how implausible he lets it be (The Commodore getting scared of the PC and caving in in the scene the original poster described would be much too implausible for my taste), but there's a good deal of ground between those two extremes.


Hans

 

[Ran Targas]

^ LOL! "This is Imperial Starship Rutabaga, we have weapons trained on your engine compartment. Heave to and prepare to be boarded!"

Hans, there is nothing implausible about the Commodore throwing the book at the pirate as soon as his identity is confirmed. You may not like my solution but that doesn't make it implausible or impossible. From my standpoint, the player chose to play a pirate, he should be ready to accept the possible consequences should he come face-to-face with his past.

The Commodore giving him an out is the GM giving him a break and allowing him to continue playing, if the player wishes to compromise his previous position. Even having the Commodore threaten the pirate unless he cooperates is not implausible, particularly if he refused the velvet glove treatment.

Most of it depends on the tension level (developed as the scenario plays out) and the Commodore NPC; if she is a by-the-book officer, the pirate could be facing a long prison term. If she's more of a the-ends-justify-the-means type, then she will continue to coerce the pirate into going along, knowing his skills might be necessary.

I never proscribed having the universe do hand stands or suddenly turn orange (although it would help hide the 500kT carrots). And I agree, having the Commodore cave in to any pressure by a civilian one step from the gallows would make zero sense.

 

[rancke]

45 days later [...]

commodore:
ahh there you are. well here, at your request, is an imperial warrant requiring you to assist the local commander, namely me, for the duration. such duration to be determined solely by the local commander, namely me. oh and a further order here to commandeer your vessel as well. for the duration of the emergency. such duration to be determined.... well, you get the point. so shall we begin?.....


knowing nothing of the adventure, i dont know if it can handle a 45 day delay, but if so, there ya go. no threats, no fights, just nice and legal all the way.

It's extremely improbable that the Commodore would be able to procure an Imperial warrant in 45 days (Only way that could happen would be if a close member of the Imperial family just happened to be visiting Glisten AND was willing to issue a warrant to some unknown commodore -- the latter is probably even more unlikely than the former). A ducal warrant from the local duke would be just as legal (it just wouldn't have any force in any other duke's territory) and much easier to get. Not easy, mind you, and as Aramis said earlier, the commodore probably has all the necessary authority to act without any warrant.


Hans

 

[Easterner9504]

Incentive

Here, have an Imperial carrot.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jr8FnMYtaHo

 

[Madarin Dude]

Well maybe you can offer something more useful than money to them. Maybe a letter of Marque they can be privateers in service of the Imperium if they pull off this mission. If they refuse well the ship will be confiscated and life goes on. (the letter of marque would have some restrictions maybe a few different shipping companies that are on the Imerium S-list that they will not directly intervene against but can indirectly through some pirates etc.)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Letter_of_marque

Just a new carrot. Because sticks can take away from the game for the other players. Maybe you can play that out a bit.

 

[Gadrin]

the commodore probably has all the necessary authority to act without any warrant.


Hans

seems unlikely that a Duke or noble would issue anything to someone showing up with their hand-out UNLESS it was extremely favorable (as in one of those -- "I should have thought of that!" -- moments) for the noble to do so.

An I-Warrant isn't a trick or treat goody to hand out.

A naval officer should have enough experience in politics/naval uh...shenan...uh...operations to know how to approach something like this, especially with information already in-hand.

I'd once considered a time-travel operation in a space RPG (not Traveller obviously) that would incorporate the players helping someone a bit mysterious and the old, "don't worry you've done this before, just not...uh...successfully" approach. Then warping them to the area, and stalling the players (and the pcs) fears by feeding them information -- literally -- from RNA memory inside the ration packs they find and use at the arrival point. Such that over the course of the next few days they slowly realize they have the necessary information to carry out the mission.

Might be too much of a railroad job (although a GM-friendly one).

Many players don't trust GMs due to whatever horrors they've experienced in RP-ing past.

>

 

[opensent]

I think at this point it could be just a simple case of the player forgetting that he had a term of piracy in his past. 8)

Ideally I would have kicked them back into space and let them endure significant penalties on the trade charts for a few months, until they came begging for full mortgage coverage and salaries. But this is a PbP game and running a few months of ship operations might take 1 game year. Given the slower nature of PbP, we need twice the sex with half the foreplay; so to speak.

I actually tried this with a game called Spinward Endeavor. The crew was supposed to do some trades around Glisten, then watch trade dry up as the war continued, which would then lead us into the module. The game ran from Nov 2007 to Oct 2008 during which time only 34 game days elapsed (015-1107 to 049-1107) and only two trades were made. And this was a moderately paced game!

So anything that draws the game out is a big negative in this format. If we were around a table, I'd be very willing to entertain all kinds of things. But in this format, I really try to move the game forward with each post.

Anyway, there have been some great ideas here and I appreciate all the comments!

 

[shadowdragon]

[FONT=arial,helvetica]i was under the assumption the commodore was an Imperial Navy officer, in which case, contacting a superior officer should be well within possibility for a 45 day response. one preconception i am seeing is that an "imperial warrant" must come from a member of the imperial family- i disagree entirely. the warrant could be issued from whoever holds imperial authority in that subsector. a bench warrant is issued from any judge- the "bench" is the source of the authority. communications lag does not allow for direct control of anything more than a planetary system. you have a 2 week lag to the next system within jump range so imperial officers will have a much greater amount of leeway which only increases as the rank increases.

bureaucracy would be too slow attempting to run an entire sector through one central authority. responsibility would be doled out into smaller areas with full imperial authority to act as needed, but be darn sure you are within the bounds of your authority at all times. yes the commodore has the authority vested to act as needed, but the ability to call the pc's bluff will be much more entertaining in my opinion. a more likely scenario is that the pirate would be dropped into the brig until trial and the rest would be conscripted to do the job as needed. once the pc is convicted, well, roleplaying a prison term could be interesting, i guess..
[/FONT]

 

[rancke]

One preconception I am seeing is that an "Imperial warrant" must come from a member of the Imperial family- I disagree entirely.

In your own TU you are perfectly right. In the OTU, the definition of an Imperial warrant is that it was issued by the Emperor, although there are hints that close family members may also count (chiefly the fact that interdictions can be sponsored by "a member of the Imperial family", not just the Emperor). Also, in the GTU timeline, the Empress issues edicts that are backed by a warrant she holds from the Emperor.

The warrant could be issued from whoever holds imperial authority in that subsector.

The local duke.

a bench warrant is issued from any judge- the "bench" is the source of the authority.

And an Imperial warrant is issued by the Emperor. The Emperor is the source of the authority.

Communications lag does not allow for direct control of anything more than a planetary system. you have a 2 week lag to the next system within jump range so imperial officers will have a much greater amount of leeway which only increases as the rank increases.

I don't think British governors had the authority to issue Royal decrees during the Age of Sail. They could issue their own decrees, of course.

Bureaucracy would be too slow attempting to run an entire sector through one central authority. responsibility would be doled out into smaller areas with full imperial authority to act as needed, but be darn sure you are within the bounds of your authority at all times.[/quote]
Hence the existence of dukes and Ducal warrants.


Hans

 

[Chaos]

Just for clarification: Could the Emperor issue a warrant that says, for example, "Commodore Whatshername has the authority to issue Imperial warrants regarding the conscription of civilian starships in the Glisten subsector in wartime"?

 

[Gadrin]

Just for clarification: Could the Emperor issue a warrant that says, for example, "Commodore Whatshername has the authority to issue Imperial warrants regarding the conscription of civilian starships in the Glisten subsector in wartime"?

Doubtful, that'd be like giving some guy Emperor-powers o: No telling what they might do with it.

More like:

"This Imperial Warrant grants the bearer the ability to use their discretion for conscripting allies in this time o'woe.

This means YOU.

Have a nice day, Streppy The Emppy"

 

[rancke]

Just for clarification: Could the Emperor issue a warrant that says, for example, "Commodore Whatshername has the authority to issue Imperial warrants regarding the conscription of civilian starships in the Glisten subsector in wartime"?

I don't see why not. I also don't see why he would want to, and plenty of reasons why he wouldn't. For one thing, the IN probably has statutory authority to do so (if statutory means what I think it means in this context). For another, the Duchess of Glisten can issue ducal warrants to fill in any holes in the statutes.


Hans

 

[Rhialto the Marvelous]

So anything that draws the game out is a big negative in this format. If we were around a table, I'd be very willing to entertain all kinds of things. But in this format, I really try to move the game forward with each post.

That's exactly right. The last thing you need in a message board game is weeks (real time) of nothing really happening. And that's what a prolonged stand-off between the PCs and the authorities amounts to.