got the book (0) today...here i go...

[sid6.7]

Let me start off and say i am somewhat biased i'm an avid and hard core CT fan
i've never owned any of the other spinoffs of traveller...i am currently in a
mixtured game of CT and MT though and i'm happy with that and the GM is making
the game fun enough that the MT thats there isn't bugging me at all.....

so it's real hard to review something based on its own merits and not slap down
mongoose book 0 next to LBB 1 or 0 and do a line by line...hey thats not the same thingy...



that said...if you've never played traveller before in your life, mongoose book 0 is fine
its real simple in many ways and a little cluttered in others but its pretty breif and
to the point, i'd give it an ....A...




now from a CT viewpoint...

with a number of odd tweaks its pretty much a rehash of CT. i probably won't buy
anything else becuase its really not adding anything to the game that i can tell that
makes the game better than it already is. i already have a complete universe in my
hands with my trusty old CT LBB's..

1.
one of the odd tweaks is that it immediately places the character into a pigeon hole
stereotype by assigning skills based on the homeworld your from...realistic..yes
but for me it takes away from that wide eyed boyhood ideal of you can be anything
you want by the toss of a die.

2.
another odd tweak was the "connections" part where you get to "share" player rolls
for skills/experience....i'm not sure what to say about this except that i don't care for that..


3.
mishaps and life events although helpful in quick generation type "explanations"
is really just replacing what YOU would normally say about your characters background
while in the military or scouts...etc...which normally is only limited by your imagination..

4.
allies and enemies i find to be the most worthless part of the book....thats all i can say.

5.
Skill packages i didn't like much either it takes away from the idea of a bunch of people
getting together and making do with who/what they are...this is really just an attempt
to fill in any holes in the players skills set they have without having to roll for it...kinda
like cheating in a way(to me)...

the rest of the book reads pretty similar to CT.....

maybe i'll warm up to it later if i read again in another week or two...


overall as a CT biased player i'd give it a HIGH ....C+...

 

[Apparition]

Ive had the book for a couple weeks, and have ran two game sessions with my group. The only other version of traveller that I have played is T20. I ...like.... Mongoose Traveller. My biggest gripe about it is that the book is largely incomplete next to the T20 book, which unfortunatly is largly uncompatible with this version. I understand that much of what this book lacks will be comming in supplements, but that is exactly why I hate Wizards of the Coast and White Wolf now...they always seem to divide up their books so that very few of them are stand-alone products.

The Mongoose book has a lot of info ill admit, but the first thing I noticed was that I could no longer build vehicles, and the second that I am limited on starship design....going both very large and small size. Now I am unlikely to build my massive dreadnaughts that I made in T20 for a starting group, but I love doing that stuff out of game, and was slightly miffed that I was unable to. I also have noticed that the trade economics are not good, when my group attempted to make their first trade run, with no money to speculative trade, hence running standard cargo, they were going to go broke. I have since adapted T20 economics.

I know some of this stuff has been addressed in other places on this forum, but since this seems to be a review thread, I figured I would put in my two cents. At this point I eagerly await T5, since the versions look to be similiar enough to combine if T5 lacks anything that Mongoose has. As far as buying supplements....I guess that depends on T5.

 

[Eisenmann]

I think that was a fair take on the new MGT.

Here's mine. this from someone who only has the LBB unified reprint.

1
I liked the home world skill selection. It immediately got my players thinking about their character's home worlds and motivations. And my players are very, very good about this sort of thing. It just kick-started the process early.

2
The "connections" thing worked out very well for us. Right off the bat we knew how the entire group was connected before we kicked off the campaign. There is no doubt that this can be and is done with any system but it's neat to have it wrapped up in the "classic" Traveller package.

3
The mishap table didn't replace what my players came up with about their characters during the tours of service. It added to it. Enhanced, if you will.

4
This section didn't do much for me because I'm running a human-centric campaign but its usefulness might leap up in the future if I change how things are going.

5
Picking a skill package for the group is one of the best parts about making characters as a group with the new Mongoose Traveller. It's not like cheating at all. It simply makes sure that the group is well rounded for the type of campaign envisioned by the Referee. I'd much rather fix the issue during character creation than opening a can of Handwavium to gloss it over during play. Or worse, letting play grind to a halt because a skill isn't on one of the player's character sheet.

Overview
I rate the Mongoose Traveller book a good solid A. It is jam packed with a lot of good Traveller information. In fact, I haven't run across a game with this much information jammed between the covers with such little "fluff" since I purchased the LBB reprint.

One thing that I will complain about is that I wish more information on vehicles was included in the book. It feels incomplete.

All in all though, I'm not really sure how a Traveller fan can complain that additional material will be found in future supplements. It's the Traveller way.

 

[Apparition]

All in all though, I'm not really sure how a Traveller fan can complain that additional material will be found in future supplements. It's the Traveller way.

I guess I was just spoiled by T20

 

[Eisenmann]

I guess I was just spoiled by T20

LOL I can understand that! It's a very complete book. I think it's a great book and value. Just not a fan of the system.

 

[Rhialto the Marvelous]

While I can see why people would want these elements in their game, I totally agree with you, sid. On a purely gut level (which I could probably rationalize) I don't care for them either.

 

[GypsyComet]

Four minor points of character generation are all you can find to dislike? Mongoose must be doing something right.

 

[Rhialto the Marvelous]

I'd say those five minor points made him lose all interest in checking out the rest.

 

[Supplement Four]

Four minor points of character generation are all you can find to dislike? Mongoose must be doing something right.

I started playing my first MMO ever. Age of Conan. And, while I really like so much of the game, there are things I dislike...as, it's really not a big deal if your character dies. He just ressurects with a small penalty for 30 min of game time.

Another thing I dislike is that one is led by the nose on the quests. You don't even really have to listen to the NPC give you the quest details. You just follow the arrows on the map, find the X-marks-the-spot location on the map, then return with what ever quest item you were given.

I mentioned this to a buddy at work who's been playing World of Warcraft for several years. I told him I'd like the map to be more vague with regards to quests--maybe a large shaded area (or nothing at all) on the map rather than a specific "X" to mark the quest spot. And, maybe a much bigger penalty if your character dies--like an XP penalty to slow your character growth since you, as a player, got him killed.

I thought my WoW playing friend would explode, right there in front of me. Those things are needed, he said. Sometimes he doesn't want to listen to the quest. He just wants to get whatever it is he needs to get for the quest, then get back an earn his XP so he can get closer to his character's next level. "Heck half the time, I don't even know what the quest is really about." He says. "I kinda figure it out when I see what I get as a quest item and what happens when I return them to the quest giver. I usually just click through the dialogue and get on the next quest."

I don't "get" that. I don't "get" that way of playing. I mean, why play at all when you're just going through the motions?

This reminds me of my father, who loves to play solitaire on the computer. And, one day, I showed him that he could right click to see the moves he was missing.

Then, I saw him playing one day, and he was right clicking and moving the card to the correct spot, over and over again.

He really wasn't playing the game. He was just moving the cards for the computer.

Why play at all if this is what you're going to do?

Again, I don't "get" it.

Or, a better way of putting it, is that they don't "get" it.

But, the masses tend to like this watered-down thinking stuff. Just going through the motions rather than really playing.



And...by now, you're wondering, "Is S4 posting in the wrong thread?"

No, I'm not. I had to explain where I'm coming from before I said: Mongoose Traveller "feels" like the gulp of the masses to me. I haven't read the game, but from what I have seen, it feels like the one-size-fits-all, everybody's happy version of Traveller vs. the depth we get in Classic Trav.

The five points in Sig post reinforce this feeling I have.

 

[aramis]

And...by now, you're wondering, "Is S4 posting in the wrong thread?"

No, I'm not. I had to explain where I'm coming from before I said: Mongoose Traveller "feels" like the gulp of the masses to me. I haven't read the game, but from what I have seen, it feels like the one-size-fits-all, everybody's happy version of Traveller vs. the depth we get in Classic Trav.

The five points in Sig post reinforce this feeling I have.

Until you have read at least Supplement 0, yes, you ARE posting in the wrong thread.

 

[scout_harris]

Having had a chance to go through character generation with two different parties (I GM two different traveller groups), during the course of which I have been noting my player reactions, I'll share them with you with regard to the points bought up by the OP.

1. Home world skills - This has been available to us since MT, and there are many other Sci-fi settings that have used the idea of assigning skill, attributes etc to your character based on your home world. I think this section is about right. Because all my players are used to the idea of background skills, I noticed no player reaction here, perhaps because home world skills were expected?
Anyway, from the CT viewpoint, yes it's new, but I can only see it as an improvement.

2. Connections - This went down ok, although there was a little confusion at first on how to do it. Pretty soon the players were choosing other players to connect with and coming up with stories that explained the connection. These stories were based on the mishaps and events that were being rolled for that term, but could take some quite imaginative twists. On the whole everyone liked how a common background could be established, and how the rules facilitated this process. Seeing it in action I have to say I think it is a great addition to the character creation process

3. Mishaps and Life events - My players, in both groups, loved it. They used the base descriptions to make all kinds of incredible stories for their characters. In one group a whole back-story emerged among the players about how they were getting involved in the machinations of a rogue political group, and every new life event was twisted to fit that story. My other group, filled with mostly players new to Traveller, and role-playing in general, were really getting into describing their backgrounds, and using the events to make connections with other players (nobles smuggling goods with the help of an artist, who hides the smuggled items in a picture frame belonging to a work of art). This coming from people new to role-playing was thrilling to watch. I think this was done well.

4. Allies and Enemies - This also went down well; however, I noticed that they would go into more detail about their enemies than their allies. (I guess because having a personal enemy is far more exciting?) I liked it as well, as it game me hooks for future role-playing scenarios.

5. Skill packages - This went down really well with both groups. Providing a group template (what are we doing and why) and helping to fill out the skills of the party so everyone can contribute and be included. Filling out missing skills a party might have. It basically made official something I had always house ruled anyway.


I reckon that as far as character generation goes, according to the feedback of my players, Mongoose has done an excellent job.


Now to see how the game actually plays outside of character generation.

 

[Supplement Four]

1. Home world skills - This has been available to us since MT...

(snip)

...Anyway, from the CT viewpoint, yes it's new, but I can only see it as an improvement.

Just FYI, it's not new to CT either. There is an article that discusses using homeworld and background skills for CT.

And, fwiw, I like using background/homeworld skills.

 

[Jamus]

No, I'm not. I had to explain where I'm coming from before I said: Mongoose Traveller "feels" like the gulp of the masses to me. I haven't read the game, but from what I have seen, it feels like the one-size-fits-all, everybody's happy version of Traveller vs. the depth we get in Classic Trav.

The five points in Sig post reinforce this feeling I have.

How is CT a deeper game than MGT which is effectively a CT update?

 

[aramis]

How is CT a deeper game than MGT which is effectively a CT update?

Only in that CT has had a 15 year run of supplementation that Mongoose's product has not had time to work on.

The span and scope of core rules between the two is actually more coverage in MoTrav, but not by much: Cybernetics being the big one, and more careers. And yet, fully expanded CT has more careers, more options, and vastly more, but that is expected.

 

[tbeard1999]

Until you have read at least Supplement 0, yes, you ARE posting in the wrong thread.

What is "Supplement 0"?

 

[aramis]

SUbset of core rules as published. Includes CG (Army/Navy only), Tasks, Combat, some equipment.

Should be Book 0, but anyway... it is a playable precis of the main rules.

 

[Allensh]

Mongoose Traveller "feels" like the gulp of the masses to me. I haven't read the game, but from what I have seen, it feels like the one-size-fits-all, everybody's happy version of Traveller vs. the depth we get in Classic Trav.

The five points in Sig post reinforce this feeling I have.

This is complete and utter hogwash. I have read Mongoose Traveller and The Traveller Book side by side. They cover almost EXACTLY the same topics..except that Mongoose Traveller actually has more detail in some places. There were no rules for building vehicles in The Traveller Book either. No rules for that AT ALL in the original box set...and how many people actually used that stuff anyway?

I am firmly convinced that you are merely looking for things to slam Mongoose Traveller for. Especially since by your own admission you haven't read it!

Allen

 

[Supplement Four]

I am firmly convinced that you are merely looking for things to slam Mongoose Traveller for.

Not true. But, to be honest, I can't fault you for thinking that way.

What I said in that post that Aramis so wrongly deleted was my opinion on what I've seen so far of the game. It's what it "feels" like to me. It's my impression.

Maybe I should refrain from judgement until I've had a closer look at the published (not playtest) rules. Maybe me and MGT just got off on a bad footing.

I hope so.

I'm not "out to get" MGT at all. I've just been disappointed in what I've seen, and many of the reports seem to back up my initial feeling (like the OP).

I don't plan on buying MGT just to check it out, but I'll hold off on the comments until/if/when I get a better look at what was finally published.

Fair enough?

 

[VT1099ace]

I found that if you look at just the first LBB's (1-3), MGT has turned out to be a pretty good update of the vererable old rule set....

the mods or tweaks people seem to complain about are very similar to the things we've (yes, I mean you...how many play with the rules 'as written'?) already changed (to various degrees) over the years to make it your own uiverse.
Sure, you can't build a megaton battleship or fighter (couldn't in book 2 either) had to wait for high guard for that. Neither could you build robot, had to wait for book 8 remember? and LBB 1-3 had very little background about the imperium other than what amounts to casual mention.

other than a few typoes (always happens with a first printing) and a dropped paragragh inthe hiver description (for the cost, I did expect better on that point) but I love the basic, no frills black and white compaired to the graghic visual assault of..say, the D & D 3e books (are there rules here? ah, behind the gesturing elf, I see them now...)

 

[Supplement Four]

I found that if you look at just the first LBB's (1-3), MGT has turned out to be a pretty good update of the vererable old rule set....

the mods or tweaks people seem to complain about are very similar to the things we've (yes, I mean you...how many play with the rules 'as written'?) already changed (to various degrees) over the years to make it your own uiverse.

Just for clarity, I use CT "as-is" with no mods. (Not that I haven't modded the hell out of the old girl in the past.)

And, I consider CT much more than just Books 1-3. CT is everything ever written for CT, including magazine articles and various supplements by third party companies. Imo, there's no reason to hamper yourself to LBBs 1-3 when there's a whole universe of CT goodies out there to use.

I can understand the appeal of a Traveller game system for a T gamer who doesn't own all the neat and nifty CT stuff out there (since many of the CT items are long out of print and very hard to find). Also note, though, that most editions of Traveller after CT, starting with MT, attempted to combine CT info from various books and sources--all in one place.

If you look at CT as just as Books 1-3, then, yes, it's bare bones. If you look at it like I do, CT is extremely deep with lots of things addressed beyond LBBs 1-3. But, you've got to look beyond those first three books.