government types question

[steventirey1985]

Can someone please explain to me how the following governments work or give me an example of each? (all from T20)

</font>

• Company Corporation</font>
• Feudal Technocracy (really only need to know what they mean by "technical activities that are mutually beneficial")</font>
• Civil Service Bureaucracy</font>
• Impersonal Bureaucracy</font>

Thanks for any help you can give.

 

[Black Globe Generator]

Company or corporation is just what it sounds like: a private or quasi-public business interest controls the world. The head of state is likely to be a manager or executive of some kind. Weyland-Yutani comes to mind as an example ("The Company" in the Alien saga).

Feudal technocracy I believe originated with H. Beam Piper's Space Viking - one noble was in charge of ranching, another in charge of manufacturing, and so on. Another approach is a syndicracy or guild-structure of some kind.

Civil service and impersonal bureaucracies are pretty similar. I usually try to explain the difference this way: a civil service bureacracy is like the Department of Parks and Recreation and an impersonal bureacracy is like the Department of Motor Vehicles. The former takes advantage of the specific operational expertise of its employees (e.g., recreation leaders, swim instructors, senior center administrators) while the latter plugs bodies into holes to perform rote jobs.

I hope this helps.

 

[Valarian]

Company Corporation - Aliens, Acheron/LV426 Colony run by Weyland Yutani corporation
Feudal Technocracy - ? can't think of an example from fiction/real life, but the ruling class hold feudal power by right of being familiar with technology. An example would be on a hostile world, the technology no longer exists in general knowledge to maintain the atmosphere processors for the habitation domes. A priest class of engineers has grown up to maintian the processors. Noone knows whether it's the rituals or the prayer that works in the repair - but let's do both, just in case. Actually, this would be more of a technocratic theocracy - but never mind.
Civil Service Bureaucracy - India
Impersonal Bureaucracy - UK Social Services

 

[Border Reiver]

1. A prime example would be any large multinational. The planet is wholly owned by a corporation, all aspects of daily life is governed by the corporation. All trade and industry is controlled by the corporation. It is the perfect command economy.

2. I refuse to comment for fear of starting a fire. Subject to many interpretations

3. Civil Service Bureaucracy. The best example of this would be the UK. Take away the talking shop that is Parliament and what is left is the Byzantine panelled passageways of Whitehall. The British civil service is a monolithic self perpetuating beast that although working towards one end, through departmentalisation fails to communicate, briefs against each other and cares only for their own share of the budget. (cynical head off)

4. As above but think of the film Brazil.

 

[stofsk]

A technocracy is a state that aims to use technology to fix problems. France is the best example of a technocratic country.

The feudal part was just thrown in there for shits and giggles, because Traveller has feudalism in it. Go figure.

 

[Chaos]

Originally posted by stofsk:
A technocracy is a state that aims to use technology to fix problems. France is the best example of a technocratic country.

The feudal part was just thrown in there for shits and giggles, because Traveller has feudalism in it. Go figure.

Not quite. Technocracy means, roughly, "rule of the competent" (just like "democracy" means "rule of the people" and "kleptocracy" means "rule of thieves")

 

[Valarian]

Originally posted by Chaos:
"kleptocracy" means "rule of thieves")

Ahhhh ... so that's what I've been living in.

 

[stofsk]

Originally posted by Chaos:
Not quite. Technocracy means, roughly, "rule of the competent"

Ok man, yeah. France bashing. That's nice, whatever.

Anyway, France is a technocracy because it's solved it's energy problems by adopting whole-scale nuclear power. It's the cleanest country in Europe as a result.

It has social problems for sure, which can't be solved by technology - but can be solved in the long term by education, and technocracies value whole-scale education.

 

[Liam Devlin]

Originally posted by steventirey1985:
Can someone please explain to me how the following governments work or give me an example of each? (all from T20)

</font>

• Company Corporation</font>
• Feudal Technocracy (really only need to know what they mean by "technical activities that are mutually beneficial")</font>
• Civil Service Bureaucracy</font>
• Impersonal Bureaucracy</font>

Thanks for any help you can give.

Okay--
#1. Corporate:
The Company owns everything--the lifesupport, the brothel, the bar, and everyone who works there is "company". Also: All public service, cops, fire Dept., Hospital/clinics, the post office, housing, etc.--they are all owned by the company.

Many Mining towns in the USA were like this until the early 1900's.

#2.F-tech. "Govt. 5". The French kicks aside (thats politics for the snakepit below,not here lads), feudal-technocracy a diverse amalgamated phrase. Literally, a hierarchy of knowledge-vassal/ liegehood in the workplace. He/She who knows the most, rules those who don't, stratified by levels of knowledge, wealth, etc.

A true world example? Pick a Computer Industrial giant company. IBM, Microsoft, MacIntosh..now do that to every facet of a government--Social services, Research & Development; Military, etc..
Everyone owes the person(s) above their job based on what they know & can do.

#3. Civil Service Bureaucracy--
Wherein those who rule have been tested and proven their worth, or simply, a "meritocracy". If you are worthy of promotion, you take a test and/ or apply for the job.

Example--Terran Chinese Empire (pick any early part of any dynasty)

#4. Impersonal Bureaucracy--insulated, bloated, departmentalized away from the people they serve. True rule by multiple committees, boards, sub boards, etc & "faceless".


Example--Terran Chinese Empire (pick any late part of any dynasty before its overthrow).

Hope that helps!
Historically yours,
Liam Devlin

 

[Valarian]

Originally posted by Liam Devlin:
#1. Corporate:
The Company owns everything--the lifesupport, the brothel, the bar, and everyone who works there is "company". Also: All public service, cops, fire Dept., Hospital/clinics, the post office, housing, etc.--they are all owned by the company.

The company shop - where your happy employees can get their wages and then pay it all back to the company. At the end of the month, the employee owes the company money. Spiral of debt and you become a company slave.

 

[princelian]

singing:

"You haul Sixteen Tons, and whadaya get?
Another day older and deeper in debt
Saint Peter don't you call me 'cause I can't go
I owe my soul to the company store."

A good movie example of a Corporate government is Mars in Total Recall.

 

[Liam Devlin]

Originally posted by Valarian:
The company shop - where your happy employees can get their wages and then pay it all back to the company. At the end of the month, the employee owes the company money. Spiral of debt and you become a company slave.

In worst case scenarios..yes.

 

[Liam Devlin]

Originally posted by princelian:
singing:

"You haul Sixteen Tons, and whadaya get?
Another day older and deeper in debt
Saint Peter don't you call me 'cause I can't go
I owe my soul to the company store."

A good movie example of a Corporate government is Mars in Total Recall.

Excellent example!

 

[kafka47]

What we would really need is to see Matewan in Space. Outland, also provides a good backdrop for a Company Town/Moon in the future. Much of American Science Fiction postulates, in fact, Corporate governments due to its origins as a Western. What is interesting about some of the other traditions and hence in Traveller worlds to explore is to find the way that these governments achieve stability.

 

[steventirey1985]

Thanks everyone for the help, I think I have a pretty good idea on how they work now.

 

[mike wightman]

There are some good definitions/examples here.

Perhaps someone should edit them together and post them... as an article for Flynn's Stellar Reaches for example.

 

[Plankowner]

Another point to consider about the Company Gov code is that is will be for relatively small populations. At Code 1 it will most likely be present on LOW populationw worlds. Also, the LL of those worlds will be pretty low as well. While the company may indeed be a Megacorporation, the local population will be pretty low, usually.

I would suspect that most on most of these worlds, as long as you produce your quota for the Company, they don't really care what you do.

"Jaynestown" in the "Firefly" series might also give you some good idea.

 

[archhealer]

Originally posted by princelian:
singing:

"You haul Sixteen Tons, and whadaya get?
Another day older and deeper in debt
Saint Peter don't you call me 'cause I can't go
I owe my soul to the company store."

A good movie example of a Corporate government is Mars in Total Recall.

if you hadn't put this in here, i totally woulda. thanks!

 

[princelian]

There was a Dragon Magazine article about government codes back in those happy days when Dragon did non-T$R ($ deliberate) work. I have the first 200-odd issues on CD-ROM at home and I'll try to find it.

(If I'm feeling particularly motivated, I'll try to compile a list of all Traveller articles contained in the set....I probably can't post them for copyright reasons, but I can list them. If someone else has already done this work, please reply to this post so I won't have to do it myself. )

 

[kafka47]

Originally posted by princelian:

(If I'm feeling particularly motivated, I'll try to compile a list of all Traveller articles contained in the set....I probably can't post them for copyright reasons, but I can list them. If someone else has already done this work, please reply to this post so I won't have to do it myself. )

princelian, Swordworlder has done it over at the Illustrated Traveller Bibliography. It would be interesting to get a compilation of all Science Fiction articles in Dragon, if you are feeling bored.