Gravball

[77topaz]

There seems to be quite some talking about it, but what is gravball?

For a story I'm writing, Norris (Duke of Regina Duchy) has to head to a gravball match to support the Regina team. Would this be logical? Are there even planetary teams?

Since there has been no mention of scoring margins anywhere I've seen, I've made a relatively simple method of generating Gravball results with two dice. Of course, it could be expanded for greater "accuracy" by including DMs for experience or ranking...

First, one has to find DMs for the teams.
Roll 1D6 for each team. If a team's roll is 1, 2 or 3, the DM will be negative. If a team's roll is 4, 5, or 6, the DM will be positive. After determining the "direction" of the DM, roll 1D6 to find the team's actual DM.
Roll 2D6. Add to this the DM, and you have that team's amount of points. Negative results mean 0 points scored for that team (in the whole match).

Example:

TEAM A
First roll: 4
Second roll: 2
So DM = +2

TEAM B
First roll: 3
Second roll: 6
So DM = -6

TEAM A
2D6: 4
4+2=6
So Team A has scored 6 points.

TEAM B
2D6: 9
9-6=3
So Team B has scored 3 points.

So the result is: Team A 6-3 Team B. Team A wins.
Draws can also occur.
For round-robin tournaments, a win is worth 3 "tournament points", a draw 1 and a loss 0.

 

[rancke]

There seems to be quite some talking about it, but what is gravball?

I don't think there is a canonical answer. It's a good bet that the field is a null-G field, but even that is only an assumption.

For a story I'm writing, Norris (Duke of Regina Duchy)...

Oh, that Norris!

...has to head to a gravball match to support the Regina team. Would this be logical? Are there even planetary teams?

I think there might well be. Travel times would be a concern, but Australia and England sent cricket teams to each other back when that trip took months.

I'm more doubtful about someone who is effectively the emperor (technical term, not title) of a couple of hundre billion people engaging in such activity. Could you imagine the middle-aged king of England playing on the soccer team? And the King of England would have a social class quite a bit lower than an Imperial duke.

I suppose it's conceivable. Perhaps if it's a charity match in a cause that's dear to Norris' heart. It's the sort of thing I would never introduce myself but wouldn't rule out entirely.

Since there has been no mention of scoring margins anywhere I've seen, I've made a relatively simple method of generating Gravball results with two dice. Of course, it could be expanded for greater "accuracy" by including DMs for experience or ranking...

This is from a fact sheet I gave to my players in my most recent campaign. I tried to make them run a sweepstake on the winner of the next sector championship, but it went over like a lead baloon.

Boloball

Boloball is a very popular (pseudo-) anti-grav ballgame. The field is a wire cage 10 m high, 10 m wide, and 30 m long. Each team has 9 men: two low rovers, two high rovers, two leftsiders, two rightsiders, and a swot. The cage is inside a zero-G field. The players wear grav belts that simulate different gravity fields for each of them. The swot is neutral and can hover anywhere and maintain any orientation. The rest are under 1/3rd G pseudo-gravity. The low rovers are aligned towards the bottom, the high rovers towards the top, and the left- and right-siders towards their respective sides. The players have "jet boots" so they can trigger jumps (The 'jets' are just holographic effects and it's the grav belt that does the jump). The ball is a hollow, 3 kg steel sphere the size of a grapefruit and the players wear magnetic gauntlets to help them catch it. There's a small circular goal in the center of each end wall and the object of the game is to put the ball through the opponents’ goal. At random intervals the G-orientations switch 180 degrees.

The Spinward Marches Interstellar Boloball League has 16 teams:

Name:                Quality:         Name:                Quality:
Edenelt Eagles           3            Pallique Pirates         4
Efate Elementals         5            Porozlo Pumas            3
Equus Mustangs           3            Regina Rockhawks         6
Fornice Freightereers    5            Rhylanor Razorbacks      6
Glisten Gladiators       5            Strouden Salamanders     5
Jewell Juggernauts       4            Trin Tyrranosaurs        6
Lunion Leopards          4            Vilis Vikings            4
Mora Merchanteers        6            Zivije Zebralions        3

Meta-game info: I resolve games thusly: Each team has a ‘quality’ rating that shows how good it is on an arbitrary scale; a rating of zero indicates a fairly decent second-rate team. When two teams play, they each roll one die and subtract 1. This indicates the number of goals the team scores. The dice used depend on how evenly matched the teams are: Evenly: both roll D8s. One step apart: Best team uses a D10, the other a D8. Two steps apart: Best team uses a D10, the other a D6. Three steps: Best team uses a D12, the other a D6. Four steps: Best team uses a D12, the other a D4. Five steps: Best team uses a D20, the other a D4. Six steps: Best team uses a D20, the other a D3.


Hans

 

[Andrew Boulton]

http://www.cix.co.uk/~fubar/Traveller/gball/gravball.htm

 

[Dragoner]

It is an old FASA boardgame

http://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/5876/grav-ball

 

[77topaz]

http://www.cix.co.uk/~fubar/Traveller/gball/gravball.htm

That link appears not to work.

 

[samuelvss]

That link appears not to work.

Just worked for me!

 

[samuelvss]

I'm more doubtful about someone who is effectively the emperor (technical term, not title) of a couple of hundre billion people engaging in such activity. Could you imagine the middle-aged king of England playing on the soccer team? And the King of England would have a social class quite a bit lower than an Imperial duke.

Hans,

Firstly, I can see him playing if it's like polo (e.g. the Royals play), but not if it is like professional wrestling. That said, I read "support," as to show up and watch with duccal detachment from the duccal box, clapping at the appropriate times, but avoiding face painting, the wave, and the wearing of large foam fingers.

 

[rancke]

Firstly, I can see him playing if it's like polo (e.g. the Royals play), but not if it is like professional wrestling. That said, I read "support," as to show up and watch with ducal detachment from the ducal box, clapping at the appropriate times, but avoiding face painting, the wave, and the wearing of large foam fingers.

You have a point. Ultimately it is about dignity and spare time. Is this something that is a suitable passtime for the Duke of Regina and is it something the Duke of Regina has the spare time to do? The answer could be yes to both questions. But I'd require a good explanation to believe in it. Your suggestion that grav ball is a rich man's game would serve for one and a high-profile charity event would serve for the other.

Mind you, if Norris took it into his head to play, for reasons that seemed good to him, his advisers might have a real hard time dissuading him no matter how undignified it was.


Hans

 

[Hyphen]

http://www.cix.co.uk/~fubar/Traveller/gball/gravball.htm

I've also got a proposed grav-ball poster copied from somewhere on the 'Net, posted years ago. It featured two (Poser?) 3-D players grabbing for the ball, in front of an Imperial Sunburst backdrop (yellow sun but a white background).

Anyone have a current link?

 

[DeltaX15]

That said, I read "support," as to show up and watch with duccal detachment from the duccal box, clapping at the appropriate times, but avoiding face painting, the wave, and the wearing of large foam fingers.

That's the same way I interpreted it.
Much the same as in the UK, where the member of the Royal Family who draws the short straw attends the FA Cup Final, and hands out the pot and gongs at the end.

 

[rancke]

That said, I read "support," as to show up and watch with duccal detachment from the duccal box, clapping at the appropriate times, but avoiding face painting, the wave, and the wearing of large foam fingers.

Ooops. Right you are. My mistake. I misread 'head to a gravball match' as 'head a team in a gravball match'. No, supporting Regina's national team by watching benignly is not at all unlikely. (Even if Norris doesn't actually have anything to do with running Regina; it's just where he lives while he runs the Duchy of Regina ).


Hass

 

[77topaz]

Meta-game info: I resolve games thusly: Each team has a ‘quality’ rating that shows how good it is on an arbitrary scale; a rating of zero indicates a fairly decent second-rate team. When two teams play, they each roll one die and subtract 1. This indicates the number of goals the team scores. The dice used depend on how evenly matched the teams are: Evenly: both roll D8s. One step apart: Best team uses a D10, the other a D8. Two steps apart: Best team uses a D10, the other a D6. Three steps: Best team uses a D12, the other a D6. Four steps: Best team uses a D12, the other a D4. Five steps: Best team uses a D20, the other a D4. Six steps: Best team uses a D20, the other a D3.


Hans

Is there a website you use for that? Or do you actually own D3s, D4s, D6s, D10s, D12s, and D20s? (Is a D12 a dodecahedron? A D4 a tetrahedron? A D8 an octahedron? And what would a D3 or a D10 be?)

 

[77topaz]

Here I've generated an eight-team using the method in my first post and two D6dice. The results are completely random (i.e. no skill points or "tinkering the scores").

POULE A
Regina
Jewell
Dodds
Trin

POULE B
Aramis (SM 3110)
Glisten
Mora
Mertactor

POULE A
Regina 13-4 Jewell
Dodds 12-0 Trin
Regina 0-4 Dodds
Jewell 13-0 Trin
Trin 1-2 Regina
Jewell 11-0 Dodds

1. Jewell
2. Regina
3. Dodds
4. Trin

POULE B
Aramis 4-15 Glisten
Mora 9-1 Mertactor
Aramis 0-6 Mora
Glisten 9-14 Mertactor
Mertactor 12-9 Aramis
Glisten 0-15 Mora

1. Mora
2. Mertactor
3. Glisten
4. Aramis

BOTTOM BRACKET
Bracket semifinals
Dodds 3-14 Aramis
Glisten 0-5 Trin
Bracket bronze final
Dodds 3-0 Glisten
Bracket final
Aramis 8-6 Trin

CHAMPIONSHIP BRACKET
Semifinals
Jewell 10-2 Mertactor
Mora 10-8 Regina
Bronze final
Mertactor 5-17 Regina
Final
Jewell 10-8 Mora

Medal Table
1. Jewell
2. Mora
3. Regina
4. Mertactor
5. Aramis
6. Trin
7. Dodds
8. Glisten



What do you think? Is this method reliable? What do you think of the generated tournament?

 

[rancke]

Is there a website you use for that? Or do you actually own D3s, D4s, D6s, D10s, D12s, and D20s? (Is a D12 a dodecahedron? A D4 a tetrahedron? A D8 an octahedron? And what would a D3 or a D10 be?)

D4s, D6s, D8s, D10s, D12s and D20s are available in any well-stocked game store. Sets of seven dice (one each plus an extra D10 marked 10 to 100) are sold together.

A D3 is throwing a D6, halving the result and rounding up.

D4, D6, D8, D12, and D20 are the five platonic solids.

A D10 is a pentagonal trapezohedron. Invented by a Dane, BTW (the die type, that is).


Hans

 

[CosmicGamer]

Plenty of websites for die rolling.

With the DM method proposed, a positive DM and even a minimal roll equates to never scoring less than 3. Never. Not sure I like this.

The different sized dice method gives a good team a chance to score higher but I like that they can still score low too. But this system seams.. don't know what to call it.. cumbersome? Lots of figuring out what the right dice size is and hunting through a pile for the right die. Also not travelleresque since it uses dice other than d6.

What is the purpose of the gravball game within your Traveller game? Are the PCs involved? If so, DM's or # of dice or whatever should somehow be based on their abilities so that they feel like they have more effect on the outcome.

Why stop at the team, why not rank all the players, track injured players, trading players between teams, manager skill levels, and so on? But if the PC's are not involved, why have DMs, quality ratings, or any such? I say K.I.S (keep it simple) Instead of random handicapping just do opposing 1d6 -1 rolls.

If you do want a high level of simulation why reinvent the wheel. Take a basketball, hockey or any one of the numerous sport games that are out there and tweak everything to your liking. Then let the game run both sides or let your PCs have at it.

 

[rancke]

The different sized dice method gives a good team a chance to score higher but I like that they can still score low too. But this system seams.. don't know what to call it.. cumbersome? Lots of figuring out what the right dice size is and hunting through a pile for the right die.

It's not that big a problem, really. You can almost do it in your head.

Also not travelleresque since it uses dice other than d6.

That would be a problem if I planned to write a prozine article about it. Otherwise, I don't consider game mechanics to be relevant to the travelleresqueness of my campaigns. Whatever game mechanic works best to create the effect I'm striving for is the most travelleresque game mechanic in my book, whether it involves D6s, D30s, D66s, D100s, D120s, or whatever.

I know there are people who think that the rules are an integral part of a Traveller game, but I'm not one of them. CT or GT or T20 or my own house rules, it's all Traveller as long as the typical Traveller tropes are supported.

What is the purpose of the gravball game within your Traveller game? Are the PCs involved? If so, DM's or # of dice or whatever should somehow be based on their abilities so that they feel like they have more effect on the outcome.

The primary purpose in my case was to generate filler material for the campaign newpaper (a once a game week one-page list of three or four TNS newsbriefs). Each match was good for an article that I could dash off with a minimum of brain work involved.

I tried to get a secondary benefit out of it by getting the players interested in the results, but it didn't work.

Why stop at the team, why not rank all the players, track injured players, trading players between teams, manager skill levels, and so on? But if the PC's are not involved, why have DMs, quality ratings, or any such? I say K.I.S (keep it simple) Instead of random handicapping just do opposing 1d6 -1 rolls.

That would have been a much higher resolution than I needed to generate the articles.


Hans

 

[77topaz]

So now we have methods for "Gravball" and "Boloball". Are these actually common sports in the Imperium?

Two other generation methods:
"d66" (this would obviously miss out numbers with final digits 7, 8, 9 or 0)
10d20
(these are "even" methods)
The 10d20 method could be altered by adding or subtracting extra d20 scores. Obviously d20s are not generally used in Traveller, apart from T20, but it is handy to use not just d6 if one is trying to get realistic-looking results (but my Gravball method uses only d6).

 

[philabbot]

It is an old FASA boardgame

http://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/5876/grav-ball

cool - looks like 'black market basketball' in howard chaykin's american flagg

 

[77topaz]

cool - looks like 'black market basketball' in howard chaykin's american flagg

Not that's something I haven't heard of before...
...care to explain?

 

[philabbot]

black market basketball

it's in the comic, american flagg by howard chaykin.

sports are illegal in the future, because syndicated tv plays ultraviolent/sex shows with subliminal messages in them designed to control a docile populace - and the closest they get to showing sports is 'friday firefight live' a feed from an urban battlefield where various 'policlubs' shoot it out weekly.

but there is a black market in illegal sports shows run by pirate tv - basketball being one; it's also pretty violent tho ;-)