Gravity and deckplans

[Renaissance Man]

I'm wondering - if a ship has artificial gravity, does there have to be only one centre of gravity?

It might be a more efficient use of space or be better for operational purposes to have different "ups" and "downs" for different parts of the ship. Of course, it might be the MC Escher calendar I got for Christmas talking...

 

[far-trader]

...Of course, it might be the MC Escher calendar I got for Christmas talking...

:rofl:

Almost certainly. Though there is that cool scene on the PanAm space plane in 2001. That's in zero-g but the same could be arranged with arti-g if you allow it.

Personally I rule that the gravity plane is set when the hull is laid down and can't be changed after that. It's either on or off imtu, and the cycle is slow, no gravity pong or gravy weapons imtu. Try to get too close with differing gravity planes and you get interference patterns that are bad for gear and sophonts imtu. Small craft mating or entering hangers shut down arti-g before getting too close. Large craft docking stay out of interference range (about two meters) when extending airlocks.

But that's just mtu, nothing I'm aware of wouldn't allow what you want in the rules. Just be aware of the possible consequences. Inner ear balance issues when moving from one orientation to another for example.

 

[Supplement Four]

Personally I rule that the gravity plane is set when the hull is laid down and can't be changed after that.

I like that, Dan. It makes a lot of sense if the equipment is large and bulky (and expensive) so that it has to be mounted in-between the decks (not enough room between the bulkheads of rooms).

But, on the other hand, looking at the grav belt, I'm not so sure these grav modules are all that bulky.

Maybe it's more of a cost issue and not a space issue?

 

[navywarlord]

But those grav modules in belts (vehicles, etc...) are aligned for propulsion purposes and not creating an artificial "down"....

And doesn't MT mention that densimeters must be "grav shielded" so that they don't give false readings when in close proximity to an artificial gravity source???

 

[Renaissance Man]

:
But that's just mtu, nothing I'm aware of wouldn't allow what you want in the rules. Just be aware of the possible consequences. Inner ear balance issues when moving from one orientation to another for example.

Cool idea. Maybe there could be zero-g crawl spaces between areas with differing gravity planes so you could re-orient - sort of like the spaces between subway cars.

 

[BigBadRon]

I always liked the scene in the original Star Wars movie, where Han and Luke man the turrets on the Millenium Falcon...

One goes up the ladder, the other goes down it, and they apparently end up sitting back to back at opposite ends of what appears to be a horizontal tunnel.

 

[RandyT0001]

Cool idea. Maybe there could be zero-g crawl spaces between areas with differing gravity planes so you could re-orient - sort of like the spaces between subway cars.

You mean there's no gravity between subway cars?!? Gee, maybe that's where NASA ought to have scientists conduct experiments to find out how this happens. Maybe we could duplicate it for space travel.

 

[Renaissance Man]

You mean there's no gravity between subway cars?!? Gee, maybe that's where NASA ought to have scientists conduct experiments to find out how this happens. Maybe we could duplicate it for space travel.

That must be why you're not allowed to go from car to car...

 

[Andrew Boulton]

gravy weapons

Well that's one way of using the Xmas leftovers...

I like that, Dan. It makes a lot of sense if the equipment is large and bulky (and expensive) so that it has to be mounted in-between the decks (not enough room between the bulkheads of rooms).

Per FF&S2, gravity & inertial comp are 0.14m3 and Cr7000 per dt. That makes floor grav plates 3cm thick.

 

[far-trader]

gravy weapons

Well that's one way of using the Xmas leftovers...

But just in case it's a case of you not knowing the source and my failing to spread the fun, you do know of Schlock Mercenary do you not Andrew?

(draws plasma gun) Ommmmminous Hummmmmmmm "You should really check it out if you haven't."

:smirk:

http://schlockmercenary.com/d/20000612.html

 

[Andrew Boulton]

Ah. Yeah, I've read (and liked) a few, but keep forgetting to check it regularly.

 

[Icosahedron]

Hmm, a couple of months back some of us did some thinking aloud about how grav tech works on a thread around here somewhere. Never really figured it out - too many contradictions and not enough science in the whole concept, as I recall.

 

[Renaissance Man]

Hmm, a couple of months back some of us did some thinking aloud about how grav tech works on a thread around here somewhere. Never really figured it out - too many contradictions and not enough science in the whole concept, as I recall.

Grav tech is a big issue for me. I like the idea of having more detail about this tech than players will ever need to know so that they can suspend disbelief all the easier. I mean, the manipulation of gravity is the foundation of all Traveller space travel. Lots of "handwave" though.

I heard that T5 will have "the consolidated theory of gravity" or something in the rules-set. Maybe that'll help clear it up. Or not

 

[Icosahedron]

More likely 'not'.
One thing is pretty clear - whatever 'artificial grav' and 'anti-grav' are, they do not seem to be based on real gravity; the inverse-square law would wreak havoc with deck plans and ground-skimmers.

This was the crux of the other thread's arguments. If the G-plates are in the deck, and use real gravity with it's inherent fall-off rate, your knees would be subjected to four times the gravity of your stomach and sixteen times the gravity of your neck!

If T5 solves that problem, I might just buy it!

 

[aramis]

I just presumed a "Psedograviton flow" between two plates; you're moved by the current, not puled by it.

And IMTU, Pseudogravitons behave as a liquid, not as a radiation.

As for gravitic thrust, etc, some use Pseudogravitons to acclerate atmosphere away from the bottom of an air-raft (so it DOES HAVE ground pressure, but DOES NOT NEED ground pressure).

Ship drives latch on to the gravity well, and use the large masses as reaction mass. Stars, planets, gas clouds...

 

[Icosahedron]

If I'm understanding your theory correctly, you'd need quite a density of PGs to act as a liquid flow, and that would suggest large field-creation energies. Interesting, though, sounds like you've had more time than I have to think about this since we last conversed. Tell me more.

 

[DaveChase]

A friend and I played around with an idea once

To save material cost of large ship (purely theory) you would have twice the space (height) between decks.
Each deck face would have a 1g pull.
To move between floors you would jump/dive through a hole in the floor and end up standing on the other floor. (If you went feet first you would end up hitting your head.
To change between decks you would jump & roll OR grab a bar and swing your feet over your head and end up on the oppisite floor.
This arangement made it easier on those stations/ships that need many people in a certain area but was limited on space. (to the unwary it is very nerve racking to have someone working just above you upside down).
Items can be passed to those above easily.

Hope this drawing helps


Deck face 1g
==========
Deck face 1g
(neutral space)
Deck face 1g
==========
Deck face 1g

where a normal ship is laid out


Deck face 1g
==========

Deck face 1g
==========

Another idea was walk over edges. Think of 90 degree pipe connection with the gravity pull along the inside edge of the pipe. This could work with small degree corners also. If the angle is to sharp then you could end up with one leg pulled away from the other and end up in a position that hurts alot.

Pipe
++++++++++
+
Gravity pull +
+
+

Dave Chase

 

[Renaissance Man]

To change between decks you would jump & roll OR grab a bar and swing your feet over your head and end up on the oppisite floor.
This arangement made it easier on those stations/ships that need many people in a certain area but was limited on space. (to the unwary it is very nerve racking to have someone working just above you upside down).
Items can be passed to those above easily.

Yeah, that's the kind of thing I'm thinking of. Crawlspaces, pipes or "gravity flow elevators" would probably work better than having open decks with multiple gravity properties. Someone could throw something and have it come down pretty hard on the "ceiling." And on planets with real gravity, there could be problems if the power gets cut to the grav-plates for any reason. A glass divider that partitions off the neutral space could work, if you need to see what's happening on the opposite facing deck (like engineering.)

Does anybody have a link to that gravity thread...

So many questions...

Like, for instance, what is gravity?

 

[aramis]

If I'm understanding your theory correctly, you'd need quite a density of PGs to act as a liquid flow, and that would suggest large field-creation energies. Interesting, though, sounds like you've had more time than I have to think about this since we last conversed. Tell me more.

'Tis rather straightforward: by being a flow, containable, the plates round the edges become cathode and anode, and PG's flow, and impart momentum to whatever they interact with. This does mean you can suspend a drink in a glass...

An Air Raft therefore does not "leave no mark". We get the wicked dust trails since there is a wash underneath it, just like any ACV or helo.

It also means ship's maneuver drives do not work on the same principle.

Think of it as a push system relying upon current.

 

[DaveChase]

Yeah, that's the kind of thing I'm thinking of. Crawlspaces, pipes or "gravity flow elevators" would probably work better than having open decks with multiple gravity properties. Someone could throw something and have it come down pretty hard on the "ceiling." And on planets with real gravity, there could be problems if the power gets cut to the grav-plates for any reason. A glass divider that partitions off the neutral space could work, if you need to see what's happening on the opposite facing deck (like engineering.)

Like, for instance, what is gravity?

Yeah, the 2 different gravity decks does have its quirks/problems. We built it mainly on/around a spacestation or really large ship.
Also, it would be a very interesting twist when dealing with different cultures.

Long time ago it was rude to not open doors for females and today I still get strange looks from some when I still open and hold the door from some one behind me or just coming out/in.

So the group is visiting a new race/cultures ship/station and start having fun dropping things through the ceiling to the other deck. The barbarians have no manners

Or another place for such an arrangement is due to racial issues take Avaians for an example.
They have large open decks with all 4 walls and small (large to normal humans) open decks with oppisite walls having gravity. They just fly over to the other side.

Gravity, You don't know. Wow, I guess I can admit that I don't know either. No more self denial and no more protending that I know that which I don't. Thank you for opening the door, so we can all admit that we don't know a darn thing that we talk about. (Hahahahahahaa)

Dave Chase