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GT: Passenger flow question

Originally posted by Anthony:
If you want jump-1 ships to be economically viable, you pretty much have to fiat them cheaper.

Note that I did the math for high guard. Due to different cost curves for various components, J1 small ships have about the same cost/parsec as J2 small ships at TL 12; for large ships (1,000 dtons) J2 is better; in both cases J3 is significantly more expensive per parsec. At higher TL, due to smaller and cheaper power plants, higher jump ships get the edge.
Ultimately, what it boils down to is precisely what you said - I'd have to figure out a reason why J-1 ships would even be in the game. Part of the issues involved would be the initial start up costs of Jump 1 ships versus higher Jump ships. A Jump-1 200 ton Beowulf costs 28.9 Mcr to purchase and requires 5.78 down payment. A Jump-3 version of that 200 dton ship (ie all things such as staterooms, lowberths etc kept constant) costs 45.5 Mcr - and a 9.1 Mcr downpayment.

Beowulf-1: costs 28.9 Million, finances 28.9 Million for a monthly cost of 120,417 Credits per month. If it paid 9.1 Million up front, the amount financed would be 25.58 million with payments of 106,583 (a savings of 13,834 credits per month.

Beowulf-3: costs 9.1 Mcr down, and finances 45.5 million for a monthly payment of 189,583 Cr.

The real kicker is the delivery time requirements and such from Far Trader - it automatically excludes J-1 ships from participating in any shipments past 1 Parsec. By definition, a J-1 ship can't be "transient" traffic because it can only take 1 parsec cargo lots without incurring a late fee penalty of at least 27.1%

The ONLY way out of this that I can see, is to add two "house rules" to the mix. The first one is to make the delivery dates equal to 10 days per jump required plus 1 week. The second houserule is to apply a penalty to the captain's merchant skill equal to either the difference in "most efficient verus current drive" or twice the "most efficient verus current drive".

Example: Tom Swiftie wants to bid on cargo lots that need to be delivered to a world that is 3 parsecs away. The GM informs him that the most efficient traffic (read that as liner traffic) utilizes Jump 3. Efficiency of 3 minus Tom's jump 1 ship results in a -2 penalty to his merchant roll when securing bids on lots. Alternative rule as I mentioned (ie -2 per efficiency level) means that Tom Swiftie suffersr a -4 penalty to his merchant skill.

This way, Jump-1 ships can compete in a limited sense. They only get the tramp freighter market to begin with. They get penalized for less efficient ships without being priced entirely out of the market. Jump-1 ships tend to be transports of the last resort. Ironically? GURPS FARTRADER gives a +1 to +4 bonus to a captain's merchant roll for hazardous cargoes or fragile freight lots when it comes to bidding on them.

When it comes to Jump Mains, a 1 Parsec ship is the slowest travelling ship. It is more like a steam freighter in today's world. A Jump 2 ship is like a more modern freighter. A jump 3 ship is like a cargo transport airplane while a Jump 4 ship is like a Fast passenger type plane. There are still slow freighters chugging away on our ocean surfaces, but the numbers of such freighters are down from what it was in its heyday.

The only real "choice" I have as a GM in such a Traveller universe is to either outlaw Jump1 ships entirely as "nope, the shipyards won't build them any more" to "yup, they build them still" If they build them still, then the tramp freight market may require the GM to state flat out "This market is served by the left overs - the liners for what ever reason don't pick up the tramp freighter market as being unprofitable to them, or they just don't have the hull capacity to cover it. When I get done posting this - I'm going to set up an Excell spreadsheet cost analysis for various ships in GURPS TRAVELLER. Things like monthly payments, crew costs, etc. I'm almost tempted to believe that if a corporation can be set up to provide funds for capital investments, that such a corporation would not finance their ship, but pay for it entirely at once. Financing stock to the tune of 28.9 million and keeping the money saved by not paying for financing would amount to a yearly income of 1.445 Mcr per year (monthly financing costs x 12). This is a 5% return on investments per year. Hmmmmm.

I find it perhaps ironic, that the original Traveller economics rules made it impossible for Jump 2+ ships to survive economically - and the new GURPS FAR TRADER rules make it impossible for Jump 1 ships to survive economically.
 
Originally posted by Hal:
I find it perhaps ironic, that the original Traveller economics rules made it impossible for Jump 2+ ships to survive economically - and the new GURPS FAR TRADER rules make it impossible for Jump 1 ships to survive economically.
Well, the cases are not symetrical. The original rules made it impossible for anything above jump-2 to make a living (while jump-1 ships made out like bandits), which meant that no one would ever build jump-3 ships. Far Trader makes it possible for a regular jump-1 ship to survive, just not jump-1 tramps.

However, the really big hole in both sets of rules is what happens when a ship is paid off. A tramp that is not encumbered by crippling bank payments can survive perfectly well on half-filled cargo holds and a handful of passengers per jump. A paid-off ship employed on a regular route is a license to print your own money. Because the rules don't give an old ship a greater chance of a breakdown.

IMO breakdowns are increasingly more likely the older the ship is. Running a paid-off ship, or one bought second-hand, is much cheaper than running a new ship, even with the increased need for routine maintenance. But that only applies if the ship can move and make money. Breakdowns are what puts free traders and fledgeling lines out of business. Essentially anyone buying an old ship is betting that he can make enough money to cover the expenses and loss of revenue before his ship breaks down. Those who win that bet prospers. Those that don't goes broke (And their ship is sold cheaply to the next optimist).


Hans
 
Hi Hans,
You've made some good points. I'm not certain, but I believe there are breakdown rules for ships in that if you do keep up with the Maintenance, your breakdowns begin to occur. Probably the only "maintenance" rules I've ever been happy with were the TNE maintenance rules - perhaps GURPS needs something like that.

In any event, the only way a J-1 freighter will carry freight beyond 1 parsec is if the rule on page 28 is relaxed. More specifically, delivery due dates are 7 days from successful bid on lot plus 10 days per jump required. In addition, the only freight the tramp freighter can get for his ship that is so slow, are those the others do not WANT to take. My Traveller universe just diverged from the Official just on this basis alone :(
 
I'd like to thank people here for getting my mind into gear regards to FAR TRADER. I examined for the first time, the trade relationships between Ianic and its neighbors. I found that Ianic has a BTN 8 with 4 worlds, a BTN 7.5 with one world, and a BTN of 7.0 with 11 worlds. Each of these worlds contributes to the daily traffic in orbit around Ianic at any given time. This will cause me to change my "scenario" from upgrading from a Class I starport to perhaps a class II starport at Ianic ;)
All things considered, discussing this here helped my scenario be a bit more "air-tight" for which I thank you gentlemen.



Thanks,
Hal
 
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