GURPS TRAVELLER Gas Mining operations

[Hal]

Hello Folks,
As a result of some minor research for a scenario, I discovered that there was an Imperial desert world stuck deep in the 100 diameter range of its sun. Specifically, Ianic at hex 1924 in the Lunion Subsector. As a side result of my detailings for the world - I created a fictional company called the Ianic Fueling Corporation (IFC). This corporation originally raised investment capital on Lunion itself along with selected investors on Adabicci. Each share sold was worth 50 credits per share for a total of 10,827,940 shares sold. Expected investment returns were 2.28% per year with some dividends payed out as well. Total ships purchased as capital investments were:

5 Jovian Diver class boats with a 3.3 G acceleration carrying 220 dtons of fuel tanks.

2 Automated 145 dton Plecostomus fuel skimmers

1 Refinery class 400 dton hull with jump-1, fuel tankage enough for 7 jumps, and a .3 G maneuver drive.

Jovian Dancers are unstreamlined ships that can make the 3.5 AU run between the mainworld and its gas giant in just under 72 hours. Fuel transfers from the Refinery class hull can be done in under 2 hours for one ship. Fuel Refinery holds can be filled by 1 Pleco skimmer in under 24 hours.

All in all, this little arrangement can fulfil the needs of a single mainworld for up to 853 dtons of fuel per week. This is based on using only 4 hulls per week - with the fifth hull or crew being used for time off rotations. The reason for 5 hulls is because the yearly maintenance will take 4 weeks per hull or 20 weeks total.

Any ships that desire to do their own "wilderness" refueling operations will have to spend roughly 5 days in transit to the local gas giant at only 1 G accelleration. For some, it might be worth it. For others, a loss of 5 days transit in order to save money will cost them money.

comments?

 

[mike wightman]

That's a nice set up you've worked out Hal, thanks for sharing it.
On my map of the Spinward Marches Ianic is at the end of an x-boat link so you may have a customer for unrefined fuel, the Scout service. The CT stats I have for it list it as NIn, Ri, De so there will be trade since it is a rich world (any idea what makes it rich?). Will 853dt of fuel per week be enough?
One thing I would consider is some sort of security force or are you relying on Imperial or sub-sector Naval forces? A couple of SDBs or fighter squadrons, perhaps an automated defence satellite or two around the gas giant to safeguard the investment. Ianic is quite close to the Sword World border so pirate activity can not be discounted.
Keep us posted on how things progress won't you.
P.S. what was/is the scenario?

 

[Father Fletch]

Very well thought out, and I like the working out the finances. The listed rate of return is quite high, perhaps some of that was funneled back into infrastructure?
I agree about the piracy risks mentioned by Hal; perhaps a Starmercs SDB unit is eating some of those profits?
I also would want to know the starport and population levels, though IIRC a rich designation means pop under UWP 8, breathable untainted atmosphere, and no UWP 7 government. The starport was not a factor in Rich categorization. Being at work I don’t have the reference materials handy.
BTW these stats seem to also be applicable to CT and T20.

 

[Hal]

Originally posted by Sigg Oddra:
That's a nice set up you've worked out Hal, thanks for sharing it.
On my map of the Spinward Marches Ianic is at the end of an x-boat link so you may have a customer for unrefined fuel, the Scout service. The CT stats I have for it list it as NIn, Ri, De so there will be trade since it is a rich world (any idea what makes it rich?). Will 853dt of fuel per week be enough?
One thing I would consider is some sort of security force or are you relying on Imperial or sub-sector Naval forces? A couple of SDBs or fighter squadrons, perhaps an automated defence satellite or two around the gas giant to safeguard the investment. Ianic is quite close to the Sword World border so pirate activity can not be discounted.
Keep us posted on how things progress won't you.
P.S. what was/is the scenario?

Hello Sigg Oddra,
I'm not sure how well the economics of this would work out for Classic Traveller. I suppose the Jovian Diver class ship could be worked out in High Guard stats:

MT-47033A1-000000-00000 MCr 116.5 104.85 in qty.
Contains 7 staterooms for the crew members, of which some are used for recreational areas for the actual sized crew involved.

Book 2 stats of CT:
400 dton standard hull filled with an F class Manuever Drive, F class powerplant. The remaining 20 dtons in the engineering plant area have been filled with 4 staterooms. Required crew includes 1 captain, 1 navigator, 1 medic, and 1 Engineer. 102 MCr. Fuel tankage is 321 dtons. An additional 3 stateroom's worth of space has been allocated for recreational space for the crews. Cost is 95.5 MCr or 85.95 MCr in quantity.

It should be noted for either of the HG or CT versions, that fuel tankage and cargo hold space are interchangable - at no cost to the ship.

In response to your security issues

See below...

 

[Hal]

Originally posted by Father Fletch:
Very well thought out, and I like the working out the finances. The listed rate of return is quite high, perhaps some of that was funneled back into infrastructure?
I agree about the piracy risks mentioned by Hal; perhaps a Starmercs SDB unit is eating some of those profits?
I also would want to know the starport and population levels, though IIRC a rich designation means pop under UWP 8, breathable untainted atmosphere, and no UWP 7 government. The starport was not a factor in Rich categorization. Being at work I don’t have the reference materials handy.
BTW these stats seem to also be applicable to CT and T20.

Thank you for the compliment Father Fletch. The actual detailing was such that I allocated roughly 1.5 MCr towards unexpected or unthought of expenses in addition to that of maintenance and wages. I don't know how much a 400 dton ship would pay in berthing fees, or any other fees at this point - as the starport is a Class I (or Traveller Class E port). If the fees I neglected to add in my evaluation do not add up to 1.5 MCr, then any remaining money set aside for that would likely be used for infrastructure upgrades over a period of time.
In theory? This operation alone could bootstrap a Class E starport (GURPS Class I starport) into a Class D. The difference between a class D and Class C by original Traveller Rules was that of repair facilities - which 12 Mcr per year could easily enough accomodate See Below for further information...

 

[Hal]

Scenario information:

The original reason I decided to take a closer look at Ianic was due to the fact that I've heard enough people comment "Piracy can't be done because..." Or "Piracy is SO EASY!". What I will be doing is setting up the "stage" as it were and giving both sides information that they would conceivably want and/or need. As originally noted, Ianic is without any system defenses. By the data generated for Ianic, this is as it should be. Ianic's tech level of 5 makes it unable to build manuever drives or weapons of any kind useful in space. Its starport is nothing more than a radio operator with a few planetary sensors in orbit guiding the ships to land in an area that is cleared bedrock. No fueling facilities (until the Ianic Fueling Corporation is formed!) mean that the ships that call at Ianic must traverse some 5 days of normal space in order to get their fuel (time is calculated for 1 G ships - faster ships of course reduce this time). In all, this is a target rich environment as someone might say

The real problems if you will from my perspective is getting enough of the details down and accessable for the players. The players will have to know just where those planets are located at any given time. The players will have to know just what their sensors will be able to locate in outer space. The players will have to know what information is readily available based on their own resources, which in turn means I have to keep information that the Navy knows secret for the Navy player, and information that the pirate knows secret to himself.

When the scenario is done, I very much desire to make the information publically available for everyone to see, so they can make their own judgements about Piracy in Traveller.

All things considered - this "scenario" will not be available until after January 1st 2004. If you are interested in seeing what I have in mind - take a gander at my prototype web page I've not filled in the UWP for the other stars as yet, nor have I fleshed out Ianic's system data. I find it annoying that I have to resolve a few contradictions in planetary science for Ianic. The best way to resolve those contradictions is to change the star type from M6 to K3 - otherwise Ianic would have to be a tidally locked world. I also have to change the planetary diameter to something that is almost twice its original posted diameter in order to have anything approximating a breathable atmosphere for Ianic. The changes I'm making aren't based on trying to be true to the stellar data generated in THE SPINWARD MARCHES CAMPAIGN so much as being true to the story of Jonkereen being present on a world with a breathable earthlike world. Chances are, I will increase the hydrographic value from 0 to maybe 2 or 3. It would still preserve the desert characteristic of the world and permit plant life to be more abundant. Ah - but no one wants to hear about my musings

 

[mike wightman]

Ah - but no one wants to hear about my musings

Quite the contrary, I for one would like to find out how it all goes.
As for changing stellar/planetary stats, go for it. Just be wary of the "Canon Police(tm)" calling at 4 am

 

[Father Fletch]

Ah - but no one wants to hear about my musings

To the contrary I am enjoying this thread. It is funny how the Traveller stats will have a system that screams for a class C port and there is a crummy E instead. Given that this is a relatively recent development, obviously the stellar charts are out of date
Much confusion, no one knows where things are, rampant chaos! (Room for Pirates

)
Have you read This page?

 

[Burocrate]

>Ah - but no one wants to hear about my musings.

Speaking only for myself, please continue with your musings. Having no players/time I deeply enjoy a glimpse into other peoples games. Never under estimate the number of hard drives copying adventure/scenerio information.

 

[Hal]

Originally posted by Burocrate:
>Ah - but no one wants to hear about my musings.

Speaking only for myself, please continue with your musings. Having no players/time I deeply enjoy a glimpse into other peoples games. Never under estimate the number of hard drives copying adventure/scenerio information.

Merry Christmas Folks

The Musings I didn't want to bore people with had more to do with the science of the real world versus the portrayals from Traveller. For instance, a world with a certain diameter and a certain density will likely have turned into a gas giant during its formation. I seem to recall reading that the upper limit was around 1.5 G worlds. In other instances, a world which doesn't have enough gravity to retain water vapor will ultimately turn into a desert world with a hydrographic value of 0. As has been noted elsewhere in my discussions - a hydrographic value of 0 doesn't mean that there isn't water available, it just means that there is no free standing bodies of water on the surface. Which then of course, brings me to the next problem - that of a breathable atmosphere requiring life to replenish the oxygen in its atmosphere. No free water means limited life, which in turn limits the amount of free oxygen that can be present in an atmosphere which means that it can't be a normal stable breathable atmosphere Does your head hurt yet, cuz mine does!

In any event, Ianic is described as a normal breathable atmosphere with a population of 6 Million (I won't even get into the argument that THE SPINWARD MARCHES CAMPAIGN indicates Ianic as having a population of 9+ Million )
It goes on further to indicate that the Jonkereen were genetically modified from Vilani stock to live on marginal desert like worlds - HOT desert like worlds. Oddly enough, Ianic is listed in GURPS BEHIND THE CLAW as a cold desert world. I have to wonder if the Jonkereen could survive on a cold desert world considering their adaptations were aimed at a hot one.

The last really painful bit of information for me to deal with is the fact that Ianic is supposed to be an M6 V system with an M9 Dwarf system. Such a system could not have come about (as far as I understand it) without the M9 Dwarf having been an M class Giant that went nova. A supergiant star will not last even 1 Billion years. A Giant class M8 star will last upwards of 2.4 billion years. Ultimately, it means that the pairing in THE SPINWARD MARCHES CAMPAIGN means that the primary M6 star has had to survive a nova.

The final issue I've had when detailing Ianic is that it is a tidally locked world if we deal with an M class star *and* have the main world be in the life zone. Tidally locked worlds result in the dark side being frozen and so on.

Ultimately, I bumped the Star from an M6 V and M9d to a K3 V and M8 V binary system. It preserves the chance of having something of enough heat for the Jonkereen to live with, a breathable atmosphere, and so on. I likely will have to change the diameter of the world along with its hydrographic value in order to make it a Desert world that *can* have an atmosphere that is high in oxygen levels.

 

[Relic]

So, no free standing water on the sunward side due to constant evaporation. The weather patterns of a tidally locked world would be controlled by the front created at the terminator...all that evaporated moisture would be borne by constant surface wind activity toward the dark side of the planet where it would create a green belt of sorts as it passed from sun to dark. Soon, however, the moisture would fall as snow on the away side of the planet.

The glaciers would be gigantic and front right on the greenbelt. Micro climatic conditions at the front of the accumulation zone would return moisture to at least the area within 100 k of the ice zone.

 

[Hal]

Originally posted by Relic:
So, no free standing water on the sunward side due to constant evaporation. The weather patterns of a tidally locked world would be controlled by the front created at the terminator...all that evaporated moisture would be borne by constant surface wind activity toward the dark side of the planet where it would create a green belt of sorts as it passed from sun to dark. Soon, however, the moisture would fall as snow on the away side of the planet.

The glaciers would be gigantic and front right on the greenbelt. Micro climatic conditions at the front of the accumulation zone would return moisture to at least the area within 100 k of the ice zone.

If I understand the issues enough, a 2733 mile diameter world would have the following issues if it were tidally locked:

1) it would have a habitable zone at the twilight region.
2) all of its atmosphere would be gone, the world isn't large enough to retain much in the way of any atmosphere worthy of the name.
3) discounting #2, the smaller the world, the more "fierce" the wind patterns would be. Once certain elements made it to the cold side of the world, they would freeze out. That which is on the hot side of the world would boil out.

Either of #2 or #3 makes the canon information on Ianic a bit problematic

Come January 20th, I hope to have my website up and running and some Pirates versus Navy activity ongoing

 

[Hal]

Major THREAD necromancy here, however, this ties in with the thread located at:

http://www.travellerrpg.com/CotI/Discuss/showthread.php?t=36139

I realize belatedly, that I never posted the ship designs in GURPS TRAVELLER format. The reason I am able to rebuild the ship based upon what I recall after all these years (12!!!) is that the clues I posted earlier in this thread, and the thinking I went through to produce these designs, remain somewhat discernible and I know my thinking as it were...

First, much of what I designed was based on a simple premise: Built at the Lunion Starport, these craft needed to be relatively self-sufficient, and I had to explain how the "boats" made it to the star system of Ianic.

To that end, using GURPS STARSHIPS, I had gone the route of thinking "How does one get a 400 dton boat from one system to another? The answer? To use a System Defense boat transport tug. That constrained my design to being a 400 dTon hull. The hint that it required maneuver drives to attain 3.3 G acceleration gave me the other hints.

That having been said, I know this is NOT entirely identical to the original design, because my use of GMV (free program for designing GURPS TRAVELLER ships) had matured over time, and some of the things I used in the design at that time did not include some of the factors I utilized in THIS design. For instance, Fuel has a weight of 1 sTon (mass) as compared against the 1 dTon of volume. I had failed to include that weight in the original design. So, to maintain a 3.3 Acceleration, in light of an additional 220 sTons of mass, the maneuver drive had to be bumped up a wee bit. Fortunately, I was able to redesign a tighter Manuever Drive Module for TL 10 to not give up so much empty space as was inherent in the original rules publication. They were striving for nice round numbers for tons of thrust provided by the module, whereas - I went for using as much of the available volume as was practical and STILL leave the mandated empty space for maintenance etc. As a consequence, the Improved Manuever Drive has the following stats:

Volume: 1
Mass: 4.154 tons
Cost (MCr): .196
Crew: 1/60
stons thrust: 49
stons lift: 49
Power (Mw): 4.9

So, the first installment: Jovian Dancer Class Oiler:



Crew: 6 Total. 3 Command and Control, 1 Maneuver Drive, 1 Medical, 1 Maintenance.

Hull: 400-ton VGSL, Lifting Body, Medium Frame, Standard Materials, Crystaliron (Expensive) Armored Hull (DR 100), Standard Compartmentalization.

Control Areas: Basic Bridge/10 (Complexity 7), Compact Bridge option (Used on Basic or command bridges only).


Communicator Range (mi)

Radio: 50,000,000

Maser: 0

Laser: 100,000,000

Meson: 0




Sensors Range/Rating (mi/scan rating)

Passive: 20,000/37

Active: 100,000/41

Radscanner: 2,000/31



Engineering: Engineering/10, 66 Maneuver Drive/10 Improved (3.32 / 4.29 Gs, 3,234 stons thrust), 220 Jump Fuel Tank/10, Fuel Processor/10 (27.5 hours to refine Jump Fuel Tank/10), Utility/10.

Accommodations: 6 Stateroom/10, Sickbay/10 (2 Patients), Ships Galley/10, Gymnasium/10 (4 Users).

Misc: 220 Hydrogen Fuel (Fire 13).



Statistics: DMass 533.25 stons, EMass 753.25 stons, LMass 973.25 stons, Base Cost MCr57.99, Load Cost MCr0.08, Total Cost MCr58.06, HP 37,500, Damage Threshold 3,750, Size Mod +9, HT 12, 36.6 Man-Hours/day Maintenance.

Space Performance: sAcc 3.32/3.32/4.29/6.06 Gs.

Air Performance: aSpeed 740 mph, Skimming aSpeed 8,810 mph, aLift 3,234 stons.

Sample Times : Orbit 0.07 Hrs, Escape Velocity 0.10 Hrs, 100D 3.50 Hrs, Earth-Mars 60.14 Hrs.

Options
All times are Earth Std, Full Load.
100D and Earth-Mars assume mid-point turnover.


Printed with GMV Version 2.32.01 on 5/18/2016 8:43:00 AM

Note: I had neglected to include the fuel mass as mentioned earlier. What I had also not realized (and accounted for later) is that the drives are capable of propelling this craft at a touch over 6 G's when fully empty. It takes less time to arrive at the gas giant than it does to return. My operations schedule didn't take that into account. Better that it arrives earlier than later eh?