GURPS Traveller

[Captain Tylor]

Just wanted to throw in my Cr0.02 on random things GURPS-related (being a GURPS player/collector since 1988):

- I only recently heard the whole Steve-Jackson-ripped-off-CHAMPIONS story. I've also heard that later editions of CHAMPIONS/HERO System were heavily influenced by lessons learned from GURPS and that the system originated from SJG's THE FANTASY TRIP in the first place. At some point this whole issue boils down to a chicken/egg kind of thing.

- The main complaint I hear over and over again about GURPS is that the system breaks down when characters get into the 300+ point range (either by experience or at initial generation). At that level, there's not a whole lot that a PC cannot do (or cannot do well). This complaint comes mostly from those who want to play superhero or very cinematic-type games. Rule-of-thumb that I've gathered from reading various boards: Want to simulate real life w/ low-powered characters? Play GURPS. Want to do cinematic characters or superheroes? Play HERO/Champions.

- My main complaints about GURPS revolve around how complex it can get once you start including optional rules and advantages/disadvantages. Since I'm a poor referee with an even poorer memory, I sometimes forget which advantages/disadvantages my player's characters have at critical junctions in the adventure. Realistic fire combat means even more things to remember (or in my case, forget). Stuff like weapons over .40 cal/10mm doing x1.5 damage, every 6 rolled on a damage die vs. flexible armor causes 1 point of blunt trauma damage to the target, etc. AARRGGHH!! The only reason I remember those two examples is that rules lawyer players have bitten me in the @$$ over them.

Keep in mind though that none of these things have kept me from buying supplements galore since 1988, including the GURPS Traveller stuff!

(edited toinclude my forgotten FANTASY TRIP reference. Told you my memory was bad!)

 

[Smiling DM]

My opinion on GURPS and GURPS:Traveller (GT):

First some background - On Traveller - I have run a couple of small GT campaigns, and am running a strong T20 game. I have not run CT, though I used it for ~6 weeks this summer with T20 lite when I started my T20 game and then the book was delayed).

On Gaming - lots of years in lots of systems, mostly from GM'ing seat. GURPS is probably my weakest in terms of experience (1 fantasy campaign and 2 small Trav campaigns).

GURPS is OK as a system. Clean, consitent, and point based (you define the point level, and then let the munchkins try and bleed every bit of capability from the same number of points). I don't care for the combat mechanic (it just strikes me as too cumbersome). Also the four base stats, the fact that skills are based on only two of those stats, in combo with the steep bell curve nature of the 3d6 mechanic make it difficult for characters to distinguish themselves on paper. Not a problem if you have excellent role-players who know the system (and can look beyond the paper), but a not-so-fun time for a new group just trying it out.

Specific example - in my GT campaign, I had 3 people from the armed services - 2 marines and 1 Army vet - on paper, these characters were practically identical which made it tough for the players, who were also first-time Traveller's, to feel that their chaarcter was special and/or unique. The game lasted 7 sessions.

I mention this because I am seeing a dramatic difference in interest for Traveller amongst my circle of gamers - there was little to no interest in Traveller before and after my attempts at GT. I am experiencing a very different response with T20 - I have a full, regular group (met for 12 sessions to date) and 3 others asking for a new game. I believe it has to do with the players experience/exposure to the game mechanics. Thus, before committing to a system for Traveller, think about who the players are, and how well you can introduce them to Traveller AND the game mechanic you are using.

Now, on GURPS:Traveller products - BUY THEM ALL!! As posted by several others they are VERY good. Most of the info is easily translated into ANY of the Traveller games. The only things you have to watch out for are Tech Levels (GURPS has its own numbering system which is just different enough to be annoying and confusing when dealing with Traveller) and the revised history (they skipped the Rebellion).

I know a lot of people who love the GURPS system, and they are true die-hards. Most of them I respect , so there must be something there that appeals to a number of people. It might appeal to you too.

The fact that you can get GURPS Lite for free is a perfect way to "check it out". Same goes for T20. If you are a true Traveller fan, I recommend buying any GT product you can get - you won't be disappointed, but I think you can wait on the rest of the GURPS Rules set.

 

[FlightCommanderSolitude]

The Fantasy Trip did indeed become GURPS; both were designed by Steve Jackson. In fact, if I recall correctly there was a product that came out shortly before GURPS did that was a stripped-down version of the character creation and combat rules, much like the original Melee game which was the first Fantasy Trip product. (My own copy of Melee I keep safe in my hallowed Traveller box.)

If you want to check them out, some brave soul has converted the later, "advanced" versions of both Melee and Wizard to PDF and posted them for the benefit of everyone other than the original copyright holder:

http://www.deiker.net/tft.html

There are also a number of TFT sites just a google away, including the near-canonical but unoffocial site at:

http://www.reese.org/tft/

which has, among other things, some info on playing Traveller with TFT.

 

[kafka47]

My feelings about GURPS, is possibly the same as everyone. It saved Traveller by keeping it in the public eye, especially, with all those fantastic covers. But, in doing so, acted as a collector for all that was old, without creating new adventures or breaking the rules of cannon. I think what we are looking for is expansion of the Traveller universe and it needs to reinforce what was...to give us the taste of what might be.

However, this is a very slow process, afterall, some of us are still waiting for GT: Imperial Navy to come out. However, with GURPS, like T20, entire universes suddenly become open due to the interchangibility of the rules. We should not dismiss this diversity into our TU but embrace it. However, Traveller fans, are also collectors and tend not to discard their Traveller collections...

Therefore, I wonder if the better tack would to develop more adventures that would be combined with rulebooks. Because, I think nobody really knows the GURPS mechanic, unless they started with GURPS or sorta kept up with the changes. Adventures would also lure in actual gamers. So I know the old adage about adventures (especially, GURPS) don't sell. But, surely, the critical mass of Traveller fans that are currently out there would make adventures more feasible, as opposed to more rulebooks?

 

[rancke]

Originally posted by kafka47:
My feelings about GURPS, is possibly the same as everyone. It saved Traveller by keeping it in the public eye, especially, with all those fantastic covers. But, in doing so, acted as a collector for all that was old, without creating new adventures or breaking the rules of canon.

For adventures you could do worse than get a subscription to JTAS Online ( http://jtas.sjgames.com/ ). You get 52 issues for $15. And included in that is access to the archives which contains all previous issues. As of today the archives has 54 Amber Zones and 26 Short Adventures. In addition there are 35 Campaign Settings, most of which contains adventure and campaign seeds (note that some of the adventures mentioned above are linked to specific settings) and 52 Casual Encounters, some of which also contains adventure hooks.

Hans

 

[kafka47]

Sorry Hans, I am a paper-guy. I like things that are well illustrated and create mood. The Web is great source for data and sometimes information, plus, the fee schedule JTAS is beyond what I could commit to, at this moment in time.

I have the same problem with the Traveller's Aides.

I might commit myself to the "Best of JTAS" even though it is likely to be an electronic product, just because, by that time the wheat has been separated from the chaft.

 

[Tom Schoene]

Originally posted by kafka47:
I might commit myself to the "Best of JTAS" even though it is likely to be an electronic product, just because, by that time the wheat has been separated from the chaft.

"Best of JTAS" would have been a print product, just like the two Best of Pyramid books. But it's not happening in the near future.

 

[EvilDrGanymede]

Originally posted by kafka47:
Sorry Hans, I am a paper-guy. I like things that are well illustrated and create mood. The Web is great source for data and sometimes information, plus, the fee schedule JTAS is beyond what I could commit to, at this moment in time.

Well, you're talking online now, aren't you?
JTAS also has Traveller discussion boards and a chatroom, and signal to noise ratio there tends to be much better than on CotI. Hopefully the JTAS boards will be going to NNTP soon and new boards may be added.
As for fees, IIRC it's now $20 for two years (still very inexpensive, considering). If you're worried about changing email addresses, you can just tell the folks at SJG and they'll transfer your JTAS account to the new address.

 

[JFZeigler]

Well, from my perspective the biggest problem with GURPS Traveller is that there hasn't been very much of it lately. With any luck the logjam will break this spring and we'll have several sound releases in 2003.

Editorially, I'm aiming for more emphasis on the Traveller part and less on the GURPS part - a few upcoming releases may even incorporate Classic Traveller data to make conversion to other rule-sets easier. In any case, the hope is that all of the material will be of use to anyone playing The Game.

 

[kafka47]

I might consider a JTAS subscription when the other sources of Traveller no longer exist. Let us hope that this day will never happen. But, we all saw what happened to Greyhawk...it only exists in fandom, despite being the default setting for 3e.

I communicate electronically, but, I live in a world of paper (remember, I am a librarian) and I view electronic is merely a tool; not an end product.

I recognize the enormous wealth of materials that I am missing out on by not more actively participating in the Blogs of the JTAS. But, I think a community needs to have free space, so I think I will stick with CofI.

 

[N.I.C.E. Labs]

I do apologize if I have offended. Again, my views are colored by the way they do business, not necessarily the business itself.

Indeed, since BtC is set much later than CT, some things would be known, but not everything would be common knowledge either. It would have been so easy to add a 'referee notes' paragraph to the worlds, giving such specific info but warning players not to read further if their GM doesn't want them to.

Granted the old adventures and amber zones were out of print, but thanks to the Far Future reprint books, not when BtC came out. In any case since Traveller has such a rich history and gaming base, I would have preferred that BtC would have respected that. I'm sure I'm not the only one who alters a timeline so an exceptional adventure can be played in a campaign. The thing that bothered me was BtC didn't give people any choice on whether they wanted to run the old aventures or not.

 

[sandman]

Originally posted by JFZeigler:
Editorially, I'm aiming for more emphasis on the Traveller part and less on the GURPS part - a few upcoming releases may even incorporate Classic Traveller data to make conversion to other rule-sets easier. In any case, the hope is that all of the material will be of use to anyone playing The Game.

As a new convert to Traveller (bought the T20 THB) I read/lurked here and on TML for advices/ideas. based on those, I looked up some GT books and bought many (GT, FI, Race 1,2,3,4, RoF, Starports...) because they were Heavier on Background/ideas than on rules. (I could do an ALL GT games, but some in my group just doesn't like Gurps...)

Since you already have books for the system (Gurps Basic + Gurps Traveller, Space, SuperT1&2 etc) you can easily keep it that way. Everyone's winning when you can buy GT books to play with T20 or CT.

Now, the only thing missing (for me) would be a nice "Conversion How-to" for GURPS <-> T20. Googled for long houres without finding anything good enough (Dunno if the D20 license would permit it tho, IANAL...)

Keep up the Good Work, we *REALLY* need some Hard S-F RPG that's Living and Kicking, else too many "possible player" will let it down (the "Gee, that's OLD" syndrome)

 

[FANTASYFAN1968]

I'm not real big on the combat rules in GURPS. Most of my players expect to get into a certain amount of mayhem in the course of an adventure, and the system as written makes that a deadly proposition, at best.

Also, it takes a considerable amount of time to generate a character with GURPS. Most of my players have been unwilling to spend that much time in preparation just to see their character get smoked in the first combat encounter of a campaign.

All things considered, I prefer not to use the GURPS game system. I do, however, agree with those who like, and use, the various sourcebooks. As has been pointed out in some previous posts, these are contain a good deal of information that is not "rules-based", and thus can be used regardless of what system you're playing.