Hand grenades beyond TL 10

[Piper]

2300AD?

I always wondered about that. The only thing I can figure is that they assumed most players would have RAM grenades and didn't feel the separate weapon was worth the effort.

 

[vegascat]

Try seeking rocket propelled grenades that can hit targets around corners with a shape charge warhead to defeat combat armor. The difference between minirockets and grenades may get very thin.

Frisby grenades designed to be thrown up to 200 meters then burst in a moving man sized warm chaff cloud to give opposing guided weapons something to home in on.

Area protective grenades used by ripping open a pack about the size of peanut M&Ms, with similar looking contents. Throw the contents out in the expected diredtion of attack. Each micro grenade will scan for incoming munitions. When it spots anything inbound, it detonates, throwing a self forging projectile at the inbound round, taking it out. Just do not step on one, or you will feel the pain.

Mechanical grenade projectors may come back into use. How far could a guy in battle dress throw a 1 Lb grenade with augmented strenght? A Roman style catapult/rock thrower had a range of 500 yards, with almost no modern signature of a fired weapon. Load an onager basket with 24 seeking guided grenades and toss them over enemy positions

Grenades designed to be placed on trails or building walls blending in. The grenade will mount a sensor to count hard shell targets before firing a self forging projectile killing the 4th guy walking by in battle dress.

A man who throws out a dozen palm sized micro jet powered flying sensor discs feeding info to his onboard computer will know when, where, and how to best kill his opponents. But if you break into his info feed and dazzle his disks with bad info will make him dead meat instead.

As body armor gets better, weapons and ammo will get more lethal to overcome that armor. Sensors and information will become vital. Counterintelligence, spoofing the enemy, getting him to waste his assets will become the aim on the battle field. The absolute worst thing you can do on a battle field is feel invunerable because someone will prove you wrong in the worst way at the worst time.

 

[Liam Devlin]

Originally posted by dancha:
Here's something to consider: grenade as population suppression.

The real key is: making grenades smaller. (Please consider that the real thrust of this post.)

Imagine grenades with the lethality of WWII type or so, that are the size of paperclips, or maybe a box of matches.

There's a big SF series by Gregory Benford. In one of them, an invasion force literally blankets population areas with *millions* of paperclip sized grenades. Depending on the terrain they're very difficult to see.

Sure, military personnel in armor and armored vehicles can laugh these off.

But not the average person.

But again, that's just a usage or deployment scenario.

Please focus on the notion of making grenades with 5-10 meter kill zones that are very small. (Heavy or not is another matter...)

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Shades of Pol Pot's landmines and Soviet plastic mines aerial delivery in Afghanistan!

Good to see the idea has made its way into SF--Thank you Baron Dancha!

Slainte!

 

[Liam Devlin]

Originally posted by Bhoins:
Hand Grenades, like the Bayonet will probably never leave the battlefield. However there are severe limits in terms of possible improvements in grenades.

Improving the burst radius is counterproductive in Grenades. Decreasing the size, below a certain level, means less fragments, less effective. Now for things like Flashbangs, or Chemical Grenades then they can probably get a bit smaller. Though there is still a bottom size for chemical grenades, because you have to have a certain amount of chemicals in the grenade in order to disperse it. Other improvements will be type of explosive, but in game terms, does that really matter? Obscuration grenades, ie Smoke, might get smaller but more importantly they will have to block new observation devices. (For example hot smoke to obascure from Thermal Imagers.) That is alot of work for a one use, disposable, semi-effective weapon. About the only interesting change in the basic Fragmentation grenade might be a Frisbee shape so it can be thrown farther or around corners. (Though if you throw it wrong it can come back. )


The Bayonet is effectively about a TL2-3 weapon. (It turns a rifle into a pike.) That doesn't stop it from being used. The M1911 is a TL5 handgun but it is every bit as effective and accurate (If not more accurate) as a TL8 USP. The M2HB is a late TL5, early TL6 weapon and so far nobody has produced a better heavy machinegun. Both the M1911 and the M2HB are still in use. So even if the Hand Grenade never advances beyond TLA that doesn't mean it won't still be used.

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His excellency Bhoins has a point of validity here Zparkz!

The old stuff never really goes out of style. However, as per Technology as other worthy lords and citizens have pointed out, the higher the technology, the smaller and more efficient things become--but there is a ceiling..

Typically 3 tech levels [here i steal from the T20 THB table on pages228-229]. So a TL-7 grenade would ceiling out at TL-10.

say be 90% cheaper to make each one, and 30% smaller.

+1 tech level cost reduces by -25%/ size reduced 10%

+2 tech level: cost reduced by 50%/ size reduced by 20%.

+3 tech level: cost reduced 90%/ size reduced by 30%.

You could extrapolate size reduction higher for your TU as you wish, in the path of miniaturizaions!

This is "ball parking" the topic I admit, but Traveller does a lot of that.

Now in conjunction with others posting here--grenades that use different exlosive means, or are suited for different weapons [the TL-6 smoke grenade sees replacemnt by the higher tech screening aerosol grenade vs Lase weaponry. Laser weaponry comes in at TL-9 [man-portable], so should the aerosol grenade.

Not breached beyond the smoke/ screening signalling grenades I note, are non-lethal high tech grenades.

A Decon-grenade for example to toss against an NBC shell/ grenade.

Immobilizing grenades

A netgun/ webbing grenade for entangling foes [stuff dissolves over time or maybe removed with a solvent spray--ala D20 Modern/Future.]

A deterring grenade--creates a solid ball of foam[or like blod=b shape] that encapsulates and immobilizes targets but allows them to breath--great for blocking doorways when yer running away thru a building. Again, dissolved by time or solvent.

My fav--the EMP grenades--renders everything in blast radius of non shield electronic nature slag. Inoperable.. nasty thing to go on a starship bridge or Powerplant room.. :devil:

Stunning grenades:
Psi-bombs--ala Simon Geen's Deathstalker series.

Sonic grenades--using sound waves, aka "Screamers".

Electrical shock grenades--possible.

Neural grenades--attack a target's nervous system, ad shut it down temporarily causing paralysis.

The list goes on.


In a recent book by Ben Bova "The Silent War" a corporate war over asteroid belting, the lead female character uses a flashbang grenade made of crystal--looks like a nice heavy dangly sapphire earring btw, to affect an escape from the rivals she's blundered into and intent on truth drugging her.

Flashbang grenades are TL-8. Hers disguised as jewelry might be TL-11+