Heave-to!

[Piper]

In your TU, who does the work of the Coast Guard?
Who maintains the navaids, performs search-and-rescue, safety inspections, immigration, customs and quarantine patrols (if any)?

I run mine as a branch of the Scout Service using 100 ton Type-S as cutters, X-boat tenders for stores and support vessels, and a few Patrol Cruisers for busier systems.

 

[Whipsnade]

Piper,

Oooh! That's a good question! And a tough one...

You see, the US Coast Guard circa 2005 is an anomaly. It's the result of a two century long amalgamation of many different services and duties. The US had an entirely separate Lighthouse Service up until the '30s when it was merged with the USCG as a cost savings measure(1). Ditto all the regional coastal lifeboat services, river bouying (which had been done by the Army Corp of Engineers!), customs houses, and so forth. Over the years, all sorts of activities got folded into, merged with, and just plain dumped on the Coast Guard. Thus the USCG is a odd grab bag of various waterborne activities that used to mostly be separated.

IMTU, the various celestime versions of the services and duties you mentioned are parceled out among different services and offices - just as they used to be in the US. ForEx:

NavAids - Handled by both the IISS and SPA. The Scouts handle the surveying and placement aspects while the SPA tackles routine maintenance and identifies where navaids are needed. Member worlds can and do place their own navaids too.

SAR - This is a SPA activity, but the SPA may not have the assets necessary in every system so the IN and IISS backstop them. Member worlds can and do support their own SAR assets too.

Safety Inspections - Again, the SPA as part of it's licensing power. However, 'stop and search for safety' type activities may be performed by IN and IISS assets on 'loan' to the SPA.

Customs - A vast majority of customs work takes place at the various xtrality borders throughout a system. That is primarily the member world's responsibility. The SPA can and will help on request. Extra-Imperial customs is more of a MoJ activity, again with assets tasked from the SPA, IISS, and IN.

Quarantines - This falls under the purview of the IISS and IN. As stated repeatedly in canon, both of those services can request Red Zone status for a given system. If a Red Zone is granted, it is up to the requesting service to enforce it. Other services may assist as they can.


Have fun,
Bill

1 - A great uncle of mine, Cecil Robertson, served in the Lighthouse Service.

 

[Andrew Boulton]

Basically as Bill said IMTU. My SPA is less powerful, and some jobs are done by the system navy.

 

[Pickles]

IMTU, pretty much all handled by the system navy, unless there are special agreements with the IN or ISS.

 

[Andrew Boulton]

NavAids - IISS

SAR - System navy usually

Safety Inspections - SPA/SN

Customs - As Bill

Quarantines - IN

 

[Tobias]

IMTU, the system squadron is responsible for all the practical aspects, cooperating with the Navy or the Scouts where necessary. If there is no system squadron, local naval assets fill in.

Regards,

Tobias

 

[Whipsnade]

Gents,

Let me add something about the SPA IMTU. From my first post, one could get the idea that it rivals the IN and IISS in the number of hulls it owns/operates.

First, MTU always had something like an SPA. I felt the canonical description of Imperial territory stopping at the starport's border sort of made an imperium-wide port authority mandatory. I never called it the 'SPA', but I cheerfully adopted the G:T moniker when it came out.

The SPA IMTU is sort of like a businessman's IISS. Like the IISS, it makes do, handles all sorts of problems, and tries not to get stuck in one mold. Like any good businessman, it watches it's bottom line like a hawk.

Second, because every port is different every SPA operation is different too. Large, busy ports with lots of traffic and lots of fees rolling in will own and operate their own SAR assets, their own NavAids assets, and lots of other stuff. Small, quiet ports with few fees rolling in will have to make do. They'll get some help from their richer bretheren, but they mostly make do.

A SAR asset at a small, Class C port may be staffed by contractors or even volunteers. NavAid maintenance may have to wait until the visiting IISS vessel makes it yearly rounds. Immediate maintenance will require hiring certain types; i.e. PCs, to either do the work or take some other fellows out to do the work.

What the SPA gets to spend on the operation of a port depends greatly on how many credits said port brings in. This can play merry hell with yearly budgets. A drop in merchant traffic due to a planetary war scare can gut the local SPA's proposed budget. Conversely, a rapid increase in traffic for whatever reason can find a used-to-be-sleepy port trying to act like a suddenly-busy port on a limited budget.

We can all see the adventures inherent in that system!


Have fun,
Bill

 

[Psion]

I like bills take. It makes sense. Especially WRT nave aids.

However, more generally, I consider some of the duties to not be universal across the Imperium. Traveller provides us broad brush ratings like red and amber zones, but I imagine that in reality there would be multiple different grades of protection and support.

Large worlds with robust planetary navies (which would have nothing resembling uniformity when it comes to organization, so these responsiblities might be parsed out to a number of local authorities) would be responsible for most of their own customs and local law enforcement. The imperial navy and subsector navy (as it exists) take charge of handling more high justice matters.

Smaller worlds fall under imperial protection and development statutes and can typically expect imperial forces to pick up a larger portion of the customs, patrol, and navigational duties.

 

[Andrew Boulton]

The SPA predates GT - it first appeared in JTAS#19.

 

[mike wightman]

IMTU it is up to the planetary/system navy to fulfil most of these functions.

Systems that are on an x-boat route will get help from the IISS, while systems with an Imperial Navy base will get help from there also - one of the reasons for worlds to petition for said establishments to be built on their world.

Systems where megacorporations have a major interest will have megacorp backing fo this sort of thing.

IMTU the SPA is more of a franchise than an Imperial organisation as such.

 

[Piper]

Some excellent ideas here. I think my starport authority is going to develop some bureacratic bloat.
My SPA has been limited to traffic control and starport operations. I like the idea of giving them some substance. Thanks to all for the input!

 

[aramis]

IMTU, Space Rescue is part of Commo Branch of the IISS. This is becuase there is a type S stationed at almost every inhabited world in the imperium.

Many mod pop worlds will be slated a "Rescue Cutter": 300Td, with three docing ports. Above and below are multi-dock folding cradles (2T each) configured for Types A, A2, S, S2. In the aft center is a 1T for an X-boat. Clean performance is 6G J1.

Orbit Control, COACC, and Customs are usually local, but may be imperial loaners (type T's) in no/low-pop worlds. COACC may be sysNav or a separate service. On smaller pop worlds, the navy's patrol fleet will be present.

Interdict, syspat: ModPop and HiPop worlds will have system squadrons doing these, and may also be doing customs.

On-planet resuce is Army/COACC.


I figure SysNav at 1Cr of Maintenance per year per person. That works out to a hull budget for on-station of 1KCr per year. (Local Naval Tax is usually double this: rest is salaries and construction.)

The Starport may have an additional customs and rescue fleet of similar size. It depends upon the noble in charge. He also gets Cr3, but tends to spend Cr1 or less on maint, similar on mobile asset admin, and the rest on Dirtside facilities.

The local count may also have a similar assessment. He'll spend Cr1 on troops, Cr1 on Naval Admin & construction, and Cr1 on Naval Maint. His forces float, usually about half the tonnage (and 1/3 the hulls) around his seat.

The Subsector Duke does likewise, but his ships tend to be mroe military.

The Sector Duke also has a Navy... he runs the local sector navy, aka Reserve Fleet.

The Imperial fleet budget is Cr1/head for maint, and Cr1/head for admin, and Cr1 for Hull Replacements. Double this in wartime.

The scouts get Cr3 per head. Cr1 of this is fleet maint. The rest is hull replacement, salaries and facilities.

The Marines get Cr1 per person, for salaries and equipment. Considering it costs MCr0.5 to train and equip a Cbt Armor Marine, plus he draws a salary of KCr3-10 per year it takes KCr130 per marine. Or roughly, 2 per 300K people. Battle Dress troops are about quadruple that cost, counting grav belts, BD, optics and commo, and heavy weapons. So 1 BD takes the levy from 1million people. (Amortize the equip ver 4 years. WIll usually have excess equip, but the excess is lost to admin and maint.)


The "Imperial" Army is a subset of troops maintained by the nobles levels, usually Cr1/head of their Cr3 assessment.
Typical troops take about KCr20 to equip, and make 3K to 10K per year. costs range from from 8-15K per year for line troops. Armor is WAY more; amortized over 10 instead of 4, and at 2-5 troops per vehicle...

Systems with ModLaw+ may have separate Customs Police, drawing Cr2/head, again 1 maint and 1 admin.

This doesn't count local planetary armed (Army and wet-navy) forces, just the imperializable ones.

Oversight Fleet: Every inhabited world gets assigned an IN Type T, and every subsector an additional 3-4. Mod Pops get 1-6, High Pops are assigned 2-12. These can be used to assist local customs, or to do anti-piracy; their prime mission is Anti-Rebellion alerting. If a local world denies imperial authority, or violates the rules of war, the oversight fleet jumps out to bring in the main navy.

 

[far-trader]

Hmm, not sure a type-S is what I'd pick for S&R. It does have the advantage of numbers (they're everywhere and you do have all those Dee Dees (detached duty scouts) to put to work but the type-S is only 2G and while the jump ability is potentially useful for really deep S&R you don't need J2 (though of course the fuel is there to do 2 successive J0 which would be good). But in it's regular configuration I don't see it. Now, outfitted for the work with a rescue module (some em low berths and maybe a small med bay or autodoc) and upgraded sensors yeah, I think I can get behind the idea. I'd probably have them patrol/park out in space where they'd most likely be needed. In the 100d areas and around the gas-giants if any.

 

[far-trader]

I like all those ideas Aramis, they jive pretty close to my own. The oversight fleet is interesting but maybe the type-S S&R ship(s) would be just as useful for the rebellion alert while the type-T(s) stay on station to assist incoming or outbound Imperial civilian ships and impose a bit of a blockade until the big guns* arrive to restore order.

* I'm guessing a single Kinunir class Cruiser

 

[kafka47]

IMTU, it is again a combination of services. The SPA has much more of a coordinated role with the COACC on the mainworld and responsible for all traffic in & out of the mainworld. Scouts are responsible for all outlining beacons and system advisories. And, finally the Navy (usually just a System Navy) is responsible for everything above 100 Diameters from the mainworld from curtailing smuggling/piracy to more aggressive negotiations.

 

[aramis]

Far_Trader: Type S's are cheap and ubiquitous. And, under HG (or T20), have some spare room:
Bridge:20
Computer: 1t
4SR: 16T
PP2 (tl9 = 6T) 4T
JD2 6T
MD2 10T
A/R 4T
Fuel 24T
Turret 1T
Leaving Cargo: 14T

Most space emergencies are not going to be "Beat the Clock" on any rescuer's reasonable time scale. Many are too fast for rescue; Rescue balls and vacc suits have 8 hours; if you're not within 8 hours, you're toast, but in most systems, that's good enough for inbound traffic. If you're in the outsystem, even 6 G's isn't going to be enough to get you there: 7.5 hours for a 6G to jump point for an LGG, from 10 diams. If you're not in vacc suits, athen you're in response time (albeit maybe mighty chilly) before you evacuate the space. 27KL of air is enough for one moderately active person for one day; most published designs have at least twice that, and often far more. Dozing refugees huddled together will need to move the air (or themselves), but can easily hold on for a while. Thus, within 100diams of a planet 2G's can intercept within 6.7 hours...

Given that rescues are usually of the ill prepared, the rule of nearest vessel is key. IMTU, if you acknowledge a Mayday, Pan, GK, or Bingo and refuse aid, every IN ship will blast you on sight...

See, IMTU, the Imperium really doesn't care about the little guy. But things that the navy counts on in emergencies (like civil assistance in GK's, civil or not) are enforced mercilessly.

Which just happens to make response to emergencies ingrained in every spacer.... and that's a random good for the little guy.

As for the Type T's doing rescue: they're not trained for it, and unlike customs, it doesn't generate fear. The navy is in the fearmongering job.

Each Duke should be able to suppress any counts under him one at a time; likewise, each count is likely able to whack any baron under him. The imperial Navy is capable of thromping handily any sector duke with a few months notice. And their type T's are constantly rotating, specifically to avoid local relationships more substatial than "Thanks for a good time!" or ""Happy enough? That's Cr50..."

The scouts, however, have a civil mission. They get stationed for months in the same system. They mingle. They party. They are not "Trustworthy" from the noble's view, but are trusted by the locals. Pulling the scouts would be like pulling the post office... serious red flag time. Too telling for "loyalty" matters.

Now,a major invasion, every scout ship and Type T is gonna boogy... scouts towards, and T's away... Scouts Tx IDents to T's and hopefully jump before destruction; T's are already running, and take the Radioed ID's and carry the ID to all stations.

 

[mike wightman]

Originally posted by far-trader:
Hmm, not sure a type-S is what I'd pick for S&R.
<snip>

Have you seen the GT modified scout SAR variant?

 

[aramis]

Type S's, espcially under HG, T20, or MT rules, can hit the "Magic 8": the 8 hours of canned life suport in almost every vacc suit and rescueball, with cargo to spare. Otherwise, it's plenty fast for deep rescues, by jumping. As for the GG's, even 6g ships barely hold to rescue times... If they can, the SDB's will do what they can, until the scouts can come get you.

The purpose is twofold, really. The navy is hard: they want to inspire fear. Being the rescue team isn't in their job description. They are there to provide law and order. If you are not longer on their side, their duty is to whack you. For a lone Type T, that's best accomplished by fetching the cruisers.

Also, IMTU, the patrol fleets never patrol their base system; never EVER let the navy have duty stations where they get to befriend the locals... that breeds compassion and leads to a lack of fear and a lack of willingness to do the hard jobs. Therefore, cutters come in, refuel, patrol, refuel, jump home. Ona a schedule somewhat random, and never revealed to the locals.

Scouts, however, are the velvet glove. All good things imperial besides law and order flow through the scouts. There is always a scout in a habited system, and he's usually got a ship. He's also able to think outside the box, something naval types really tend to not be able to do.

Scout ships arrive and depart on schedules, and the local assigned ships stay basically put... and so them departing to report misbehaviors would be VERY noticed.

You don't want rebels to know you've noticed them. At least, not until the annihilation fleet arrives.

 

[far-trader]

Originally posted by Sigg Oddra:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by far-trader:
Hmm, not sure a type-S is what I'd pick for S&R.
<snip>

Have you seen the GT modified scout SAR variant? </font>[/QUOTE]Don't think so, but then that's not a type-S imo It's a modified type-S which is a different story and I hinted that such could be concievable. I still don't see it for mtu or the otu though. Scout's just don't do that imo. They look and listen and report. In mtu it's the Navy that (in peacetime) does the protecting and finding and saving.

My cutoff for the SPA is 100 diameters of any inhabited Imperial world, the limit of member worlds responsibilities, and the Imperium claims authority over everything beyond.

I'm not so much against Aramis' ideas, like I said they seem to jive in a few ways with mine, but there are differences

 

[mike wightman]

It's very heavily modified

The jump drive has been removed and the maneuver drive upgraded to 4G.

It's a bit like the seeker I suppose - all those surplus scouts can be put to some sort of use