Fritz_Brown
Super Moderator
Actually, Piper, the Brits did recruit locally into their government. That's why most of the British colonies could transition to freedom fairly successfully - they had experience running the place.
Homeworld Identity... Homeworldism?
- Thread starter The Hinterworlds Rambler
- Start date
So the services indoctrinate and reward at the same time by turning all recruits into loyal Citizens. And yes to a degree, citizens without a homeland, except as you note, "the space between the stars". Kind of a lonely thought. Of course some of these citizens will go home when their service is done, but how will they fit in. Is it any wonder so many ex-service personell are Travellers.
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Actually that sounds rather romantic: "homeless legions keeping their lonely watch"
I suspect that their would be some planets where Imperial and local patriotism would be nearly synonamous. They could for instance have a long tradition of Imperial service. It is quite common in large empires for such things to occure. A fammiliar version of this is the "millitary colonist" system whereby large numbers of troops are sowed on fallow land as their pay-much like the Darrien Aslan. This is in fact a varient of feudalism but a common one.
Also Imperial Service could be a family tradition and among lower as well as higher classes, for in some cases an Imperial "mere lackey" will gain enough pay and prestiege to make him equal to some planetary "grandee". The Imperium of course would have to make some arrangments to care for the families of such: despite the "if the Emperor wanted you to marry he would have issued you a wife with your duffle-bag" joke, the Imperium probably does make extensive arrangments for the families of Imperial servants.
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Actually that sounds rather romantic: "homeless legions keeping their lonely watch"
I suspect that their would be some planets where Imperial and local patriotism would be nearly synonamous. They could for instance have a long tradition of Imperial service. It is quite common in large empires for such things to occure. A fammiliar version of this is the "millitary colonist" system whereby large numbers of troops are sowed on fallow land as their pay-much like the Darrien Aslan. This is in fact a varient of feudalism but a common one.
Also Imperial Service could be a family tradition and among lower as well as higher classes, for in some cases an Imperial "mere lackey" will gain enough pay and prestiege to make him equal to some planetary "grandee". The Imperium of course would have to make some arrangments to care for the families of such: despite the "if the Emperor wanted you to marry he would have issued you a wife with your duffle-bag" joke, the Imperium probably does make extensive arrangments for the families of Imperial servants.
^ This isn't a bad take on things, it seems. If one can tie in the patriotism of the 5-10 major worlds in each sector with being part of the Imperium, then the job is done.
The rest of the worlds can do whatever they like, as far as Imperio-centrism goes. They can strive to "be like the Big Boys" and toady up, or they can be insular, simply paying their protection tithe to the Imperial Navy.
The rest of the worlds can do whatever they like, as far as Imperio-centrism goes. They can strive to "be like the Big Boys" and toady up, or they can be insular, simply paying their protection tithe to the Imperial Navy.
Also couldn't Imperial service be analogical(in the earthly sense of course), with the medieval church.
A cleric was expected to keep his primary allegiance toward the Church(that is the Church as an organization, not just the "Church Redeemed" which laymen are part of too-but enough piety).
Anyway the Church, like the Imperium had no real center of allegiance other than the beliefs it espoused. Rome was the administrative headquarters, but it had no real doctrinal significance-if the Turks really had taken Rome than Christendom would have grieved for a while and maybe launched a crusade, but it wouldn't have been crippled. In this respect an Imperial Servant would be like a cleric. While a cleric was and is a servant of an
"extraterritorial" organization, in practice he retained ties of varying degrees to his old home and indeed sometimes this conflict of interest caused scandals.
Of course the Imperium would be different as it's members do not, despite the "duffle-bag joke" have a tradition of celibacy. Nevertheless the point applies.
A cleric was expected to keep his primary allegiance toward the Church(that is the Church as an organization, not just the "Church Redeemed" which laymen are part of too-but enough piety).
Anyway the Church, like the Imperium had no real center of allegiance other than the beliefs it espoused. Rome was the administrative headquarters, but it had no real doctrinal significance-if the Turks really had taken Rome than Christendom would have grieved for a while and maybe launched a crusade, but it wouldn't have been crippled. In this respect an Imperial Servant would be like a cleric. While a cleric was and is a servant of an
"extraterritorial" organization, in practice he retained ties of varying degrees to his old home and indeed sometimes this conflict of interest caused scandals.
Of course the Imperium would be different as it's members do not, despite the "duffle-bag joke" have a tradition of celibacy. Nevertheless the point applies.
Malenfant raised the issue of why one would go fight for something larger like the Empire when home has issues. Why do modern people join Federal forces rather than local police forces or state national guards? (Thinking of the US)
Several reasons. The military life is just *for* some types of folks. That's what they enjoy or are good at or find the camaraderie a calling. So, given you plan to pursue a career at arms, where better to do it than the place with the best kit, most active missions, most prestige and tradition, like the Imperial Marines, for instance.
Also, it might get you an education (an academy). It might get you a pension. It might get you a chance to see the universe you could never afford. And when you come back, your Cr Imperial will be worth (in some cases) 2 or more local credits. Thus, you could easily be very wealthy on your meagre Imperial pension (if you don't live on a rich TL-F world... in which case the pension looks very meagre, but the military traditionally recruits from economically disadvantaged areas).
And of course, others have cited that some planets OTU are worth getting off of.
And let me add: Some people just have a concept of public service. That's why some join federal police forces and federal militaries and go into federal public service. Some just feel they should be serving their community and the Empire might seem to be the best way to do this. Why make a difference for your small pop 4 world when you can make a difference for a subsector?
I've met people in the armed forces that identify themselves with their old hometown, some that are ambivalent about it, and some that could care less and never want to see it again. The whole spectrum is out there.
Add one more thing: Your comment about someone saying "I'm a Texan" or "I'm a New Yorker" - that applies less in other places. I live in Ontario, but I think of myself as Canadian first and Ontarian a distant second (probably as an Ottawanian before an Ontarian even). The only Canadian places where you'll likely find provincial identity taking precedence are Alberta (our most Americanized province) and maybe in Quebec (but some would argue they've never really been part of Canada, given their failure to sign several key accords) or the maritimes. But even then, most people will still identify themselves as Canadian first.
And as a Canadian, I can see where having a neighbour you can point to and say 'We aren't that!' would be a likely situation. I may prefer that we defined ourselves as something (rather than NOT a collection of things), but that seems to work for a lot of folks. So being able to say Imperial is not being particular Zho or Solomani things, that seems very likely to me (and they'll do the same in reverse).
Several reasons. The military life is just *for* some types of folks. That's what they enjoy or are good at or find the camaraderie a calling. So, given you plan to pursue a career at arms, where better to do it than the place with the best kit, most active missions, most prestige and tradition, like the Imperial Marines, for instance.
Also, it might get you an education (an academy). It might get you a pension. It might get you a chance to see the universe you could never afford. And when you come back, your Cr Imperial will be worth (in some cases) 2 or more local credits. Thus, you could easily be very wealthy on your meagre Imperial pension (if you don't live on a rich TL-F world... in which case the pension looks very meagre, but the military traditionally recruits from economically disadvantaged areas).
And of course, others have cited that some planets OTU are worth getting off of.
And let me add: Some people just have a concept of public service. That's why some join federal police forces and federal militaries and go into federal public service. Some just feel they should be serving their community and the Empire might seem to be the best way to do this. Why make a difference for your small pop 4 world when you can make a difference for a subsector?
I've met people in the armed forces that identify themselves with their old hometown, some that are ambivalent about it, and some that could care less and never want to see it again. The whole spectrum is out there.
Add one more thing: Your comment about someone saying "I'm a Texan" or "I'm a New Yorker" - that applies less in other places. I live in Ontario, but I think of myself as Canadian first and Ontarian a distant second (probably as an Ottawanian before an Ontarian even). The only Canadian places where you'll likely find provincial identity taking precedence are Alberta (our most Americanized province) and maybe in Quebec (but some would argue they've never really been part of Canada, given their failure to sign several key accords) or the maritimes. But even then, most people will still identify themselves as Canadian first.
And as a Canadian, I can see where having a neighbour you can point to and say 'We aren't that!' would be a likely situation. I may prefer that we defined ourselves as something (rather than NOT a collection of things), but that seems to work for a lot of folks. So being able to say Imperial is not being particular Zho or Solomani things, that seems very likely to me (and they'll do the same in reverse).
M
Malenfant
Guest
Well in the US, things the Federal government is a bit more directly involved in the running of daily affairs and a bit more involved in its citizens lives. The Imperium on the other hand seems to have little or no involvement in its citizens lives at all (remember, adventurers and pilots are a tiny minority of the total population of the Traveller universe)
Fritz_Brown
Super Moderator
Ummm, kaladorn, you might want to not use "Ottawanian" a lot of places (maybe it works in Canada...). Well, some folks might want to know what star system that is in. Others will want to know if that many people are that interested in otters.
And, if you exclude the maritimes (I'm assuming New Brunswick is in there), Alberta, and Quebec, what is left besides Ontario and the Northwest Territories? 
Seriously, though, you are right that a lot of this is going to be informed by our views of just what present/past polity is most like the 3I. Canada has probably more variations in "loyalties" than the US does at this point in time. Edit: I mean in the same terms which kaladorn is using - Quebecois, UN member, Canadian, etc.
Has anybody figured out ratios of Imperial military to citizenry or Imperials to local troops? I am betting that the low ratio would be enlightening - to show just how few folks join the Imps, and how many fewer become Travellers. Edit: Dangit, Malenfant, I took too long typing....
Seriously, though, you are right that a lot of this is going to be informed by our views of just what present/past polity is most like the 3I. Canada has probably more variations in "loyalties" than the US does at this point in time. Edit: I mean in the same terms which kaladorn is using - Quebecois, UN member, Canadian, etc.
Has anybody figured out ratios of Imperial military to citizenry or Imperials to local troops? I am betting that the low ratio would be enlightening - to show just how few folks join the Imps, and how many fewer become Travellers. Edit: Dangit, Malenfant, I took too long typing....
M
Malenfant
Guest
Here's another thing. What happens when governments change on individual worlds in the Imperium? (and despite what the UWPs imply, they do change. Dictators fall, democracies are corrupted into dictatorships, empires form, wars happen etc. If I had my way every world should re-roll to determine its government UWP for each different era). This should focus the inhabitants' minds on local affairs much more than on Imperial affairs.
Given the Imperium's "hands off" policy (unless certain conditions are broken, like their starports are attacked), why do people on individual worlds particularly CARE about the Imperium?
And again, what has the Imperium ever actually done for Joe Bloggs on TL A Planet Generica? Other than caused an increase in taxes, that is.
Given the Imperium's "hands off" policy (unless certain conditions are broken, like their starports are attacked), why do people on individual worlds particularly CARE about the Imperium?
And again, what has the Imperium ever actually done for Joe Bloggs on TL A Planet Generica? Other than caused an increase in taxes, that is.
FTA (Fun, Travel and Adventure)
These are the reasons why we left our country to pull duty away from home for years at a time.
You can take the Boy out of the Farm but you can't take the Farm out of the Boy.
IMHO being a member of the Global community (Imperium) is not of as great value as being a member of "My" homeworld. It does not matter if I have not been there for 30-40 years, it remains "My" homeworld. Being a member of the Imperium only allows me to get better training and opportunities for advancement(as well as riches) not found at home.
Well, Ottawan is one option. Ottawanian, Ottawani, Ottawa-ite, ? None of them are very good. Resident of Ottawa is better.
Even friends I have from Quebec identify more with Canada than with Quebec. Yes, there are more sovereigntists in Alberta and Quebec than other spots, but you'll find that the majority still identify themselves as Canadian first, or as is our national way "X-Canadian" (Scottish-Canadian or French-Canadian).
Part of that is because I think with the US next door, you have to be able to identify with some commonality to avoid being culturally swamped. That's why most of us can associate with Due South and other bits of Canadianna like Tim Hortons.
Canada is an interesting study because it has many loyalties - Canadian, local region, UN member, NATO member, NORAD member, NAFTA signatory, etc. But one difference is that up here, we sort of expect that. We've become hyphenated Canadians (X-Canadians). So we're used to sporting more than one hat at a time and having it diminish (ostensibly) neither role. I think many folks to our South sometimes think it is all or nothing - I'm a Texan vs. an American. Or American vs. a member of the UN, etc.
I guess I think the Empire, if it were to exist, have the history it has, and do what it has done historically, would require some major identity to manage that. At least within its own forces, public servants, and on the high pop worlds (hearts and minds and all that). I agree with whoever it was suggested the smaller pop worlds can sort of be allowed to be as insular as they choose.
We have very little canon data on local vs. Imperial, only some ideas of Reserves vs. Regulars, etc. I agree this has some issue.
As for Mal's point, let me turn it around: We don't know how much influence the Imperium has. I've heard mention of Imperial regulations for shipping. Imperial standardized design packages (which suggests industrial implications). Imperial COACC and Army on almost every planet that can afford them. Imperial Nobles running things at the sector, subsector and often world levels or at least acting as liaison. And we've had incursions into local Imperial space by enemies of the Empire. We've had sieges, blockades, and huge fleet actions. We've had terrorism, orbital attacks, etc. We have some (GT:FT) idea of at least one semi-canonical trade model.
I think all of this speaks to the involvement of the Empire. Not in your day to day life, but in a lot of ways that impact you. It's sort of like how the Canadian Gov't is influenced by the outside world - yes it makes its own rules and regs, but it is subject to common sense details of Int'l trade, to the mutually signed pacts relating to trade, Int'l labour standards, Environment Stds, etc. So even though it is 'sovereign', it is far from not being influenced.
I picture the 3I as halfway between the US Gov't of Today (Or perhaps the British Gov't of the old Raj Days) and the UN of today. It has large and wide ranging impact on its member worlds, but often in ways that aren't immediately obvious. Until of course a fight with a neighbour breaks out.
Also note that visions of the OTU 3I have varied over various generations of the game, so I think that's an aspect here too.
Frankly, I wore a Canadian Forces uniform as an infanteer, but if I'd have had the chance to join a UN force (as a UN citizen, joining a UN military, funded by UN tax base not charity from members), then I'd probably have done so. So I have no trouble understanding why many people would choose to serve the Empire.
Aside:
Someone made a comment about Scouts not suiting the 'moulding' process of the military. I'll disagree - it just takes a slightly different form. You still need a chain of command (however informal, it must exist and function), you still need common values, and you still need some sense of discipline in following rules (even if you have fewer rules!).
Now, indvidual initiative will be more valuable (just like military SF units) as intelligence and toughness will be prized.
The traditions inculcated will perhaps be a bit more iconoclastic, but no less common across the family of scouts. The glue that bonds Scout to Scout and in loyalty to the IISS and the Imperium and her people will be *different* to that which bonds a Navy man to other navy men and on up, but at the same time, it will serve the same purpose.
In the end, you still need to be able to support a large functioning bureaucracy and this can't happen without minimums of common purpose and understanding. Espirit d' Corps is also critical and that will take on different forms.
Scouts pride themselves on not having ranks, on not wearing too formal of uniforms, and of getting the job done by whatever means necessary where Marines pride themselves on being disciplines, of looking better and sharper than the Navy at all points, and of kicking the butt off of anyone, anytime, anywhere.... different traditions, but serving the same master.
So, I think Scouts will have the same initial basic breaking you down thing, but they'll orient the rebuilding more around small teams and independence from supervision and working within limited resources with less formal structure. But they'll all know who they serve and why and share a common cultural understanding of the IISS and the Empire.
Even friends I have from Quebec identify more with Canada than with Quebec. Yes, there are more sovereigntists in Alberta and Quebec than other spots, but you'll find that the majority still identify themselves as Canadian first, or as is our national way "X-Canadian" (Scottish-Canadian or French-Canadian).
Part of that is because I think with the US next door, you have to be able to identify with some commonality to avoid being culturally swamped. That's why most of us can associate with Due South and other bits of Canadianna like Tim Hortons.
Canada is an interesting study because it has many loyalties - Canadian, local region, UN member, NATO member, NORAD member, NAFTA signatory, etc. But one difference is that up here, we sort of expect that. We've become hyphenated Canadians (X-Canadians). So we're used to sporting more than one hat at a time and having it diminish (ostensibly) neither role. I think many folks to our South sometimes think it is all or nothing - I'm a Texan vs. an American. Or American vs. a member of the UN, etc.
I guess I think the Empire, if it were to exist, have the history it has, and do what it has done historically, would require some major identity to manage that. At least within its own forces, public servants, and on the high pop worlds (hearts and minds and all that). I agree with whoever it was suggested the smaller pop worlds can sort of be allowed to be as insular as they choose.
We have very little canon data on local vs. Imperial, only some ideas of Reserves vs. Regulars, etc. I agree this has some issue.
As for Mal's point, let me turn it around: We don't know how much influence the Imperium has. I've heard mention of Imperial regulations for shipping. Imperial standardized design packages (which suggests industrial implications). Imperial COACC and Army on almost every planet that can afford them. Imperial Nobles running things at the sector, subsector and often world levels or at least acting as liaison. And we've had incursions into local Imperial space by enemies of the Empire. We've had sieges, blockades, and huge fleet actions. We've had terrorism, orbital attacks, etc. We have some (GT:FT) idea of at least one semi-canonical trade model.
I think all of this speaks to the involvement of the Empire. Not in your day to day life, but in a lot of ways that impact you. It's sort of like how the Canadian Gov't is influenced by the outside world - yes it makes its own rules and regs, but it is subject to common sense details of Int'l trade, to the mutually signed pacts relating to trade, Int'l labour standards, Environment Stds, etc. So even though it is 'sovereign', it is far from not being influenced.
I picture the 3I as halfway between the US Gov't of Today (Or perhaps the British Gov't of the old Raj Days) and the UN of today. It has large and wide ranging impact on its member worlds, but often in ways that aren't immediately obvious. Until of course a fight with a neighbour breaks out.
Also note that visions of the OTU 3I have varied over various generations of the game, so I think that's an aspect here too.
Frankly, I wore a Canadian Forces uniform as an infanteer, but if I'd have had the chance to join a UN force (as a UN citizen, joining a UN military, funded by UN tax base not charity from members), then I'd probably have done so. So I have no trouble understanding why many people would choose to serve the Empire.
Aside:
Someone made a comment about Scouts not suiting the 'moulding' process of the military. I'll disagree - it just takes a slightly different form. You still need a chain of command (however informal, it must exist and function), you still need common values, and you still need some sense of discipline in following rules (even if you have fewer rules!).
Now, indvidual initiative will be more valuable (just like military SF units) as intelligence and toughness will be prized.
The traditions inculcated will perhaps be a bit more iconoclastic, but no less common across the family of scouts. The glue that bonds Scout to Scout and in loyalty to the IISS and the Imperium and her people will be *different* to that which bonds a Navy man to other navy men and on up, but at the same time, it will serve the same purpose.
In the end, you still need to be able to support a large functioning bureaucracy and this can't happen without minimums of common purpose and understanding. Espirit d' Corps is also critical and that will take on different forms.
Scouts pride themselves on not having ranks, on not wearing too formal of uniforms, and of getting the job done by whatever means necessary where Marines pride themselves on being disciplines, of looking better and sharper than the Navy at all points, and of kicking the butt off of anyone, anytime, anywhere.... different traditions, but serving the same master.
So, I think Scouts will have the same initial basic breaking you down thing, but they'll orient the rebuilding more around small teams and independence from supervision and working within limited resources with less formal structure. But they'll all know who they serve and why and share a common cultural understanding of the IISS and the Empire.
Homeworldism would certainly exist on long established worlds but most of the players in Traveller have been exposed to a wider universe and have begun to take on a new form of Identity.
Sure there will be quirks but the commonality that institutions such as the Imperium would impose would be begin to level out these differences. Real Frontier worlds such as those in the Marches would possibly have an exclusive Imperial identity because of the conflict in the Region.
Again a question for interstellar wars, what would be the identity of the advancing Terran forces that were not born on Earth but in some sort of Vat. The whole Interstellar Wars milieu reminds me of Space : Above & Beyond with the Vilani substituting for the Chigs.
Sure there will be quirks but the commonality that institutions such as the Imperium would impose would be begin to level out these differences. Real Frontier worlds such as those in the Marches would possibly have an exclusive Imperial identity because of the conflict in the Region.
Again a question for interstellar wars, what would be the identity of the advancing Terran forces that were not born on Earth but in some sort of Vat. The whole Interstellar Wars milieu reminds me of Space : Above & Beyond with the Vilani substituting for the Chigs.
Fritz_Brown
Super Moderator
I tend to think bureaucracy (more than anything else) is how the 3I makes itself felt.
kaladorn, why wouldn't the Scouts recruit bunches of their folks from problem children in the Navy/Army/Marines? Folks who have high potential, but are not conformist enough? Five weeks into basic, a guy comes around wearing a cool flight jacket, breaking various rules of protocol, and pulls them out of some indoctrination class. "So, kid, I hear you're not taking too well to this Navy/Marine/Navy crap? Your DI says their gonna kick ya out. Have you ever thought about ISS?" Could explain (CT) drafting into the Scouts after failing to enlist somewhere else....
kaladorn, why wouldn't the Scouts recruit bunches of their folks from problem children in the Navy/Army/Marines? Folks who have high potential, but are not conformist enough? Five weeks into basic, a guy comes around wearing a cool flight jacket, breaking various rules of protocol, and pulls them out of some indoctrination class. "So, kid, I hear you're not taking too well to this Navy/Marine/Navy crap? Your DI says their gonna kick ya out. Have you ever thought about ISS?" Could explain (CT) drafting into the Scouts after failing to enlist somewhere else....
Someone said that the "Imperial Tradition worlds" would be big ones
That would be reasonably common.
Here is another possibility though. Small worlds, which havn't the infrastructure to compete and thus crave security more than autonomy would quite likly have an Imperial Tradition. The Imperium would enable them to have lots of "grand endevours" to boast of by allowing them to say that "Marines from our planet are tougher, scouts from our planet are bolder, etc(any combination of above). Just as Southerners brag about their deeds in US service, and Scottish highlanders boast of how well they fought for Britain-and by the way both also brag about their deeds in opposition to these respective polities: which adds another curiousity.
Anyway small states have their own motives to identify with the Imperium(or any simmilar intersteller state). They cannot compete on their own as well but they can try to be better Impies.
An interesting thougt.
That would be reasonably common.
Here is another possibility though. Small worlds, which havn't the infrastructure to compete and thus crave security more than autonomy would quite likly have an Imperial Tradition. The Imperium would enable them to have lots of "grand endevours" to boast of by allowing them to say that "Marines from our planet are tougher, scouts from our planet are bolder, etc(any combination of above). Just as Southerners brag about their deeds in US service, and Scottish highlanders boast of how well they fought for Britain-and by the way both also brag about their deeds in opposition to these respective polities: which adds another curiousity.
Anyway small states have their own motives to identify with the Imperium(or any simmilar intersteller state). They cannot compete on their own as well but they can try to be better Impies.
An interesting thougt.
The Hinterworlds Rambler
SOC-14 5K
Isn't there a consideration to be made for childhood experiences? Are they not an often indelible factor in a psychological makeup?
(for example)
On my own homeworld, most of that experience was inside antigrav cities and orbital communities (and all that entails). I always envisioned it having a "small town' feel, on a system-wide scale, what with having 2000 or so permanent residents.
(for example)
On my own homeworld, most of that experience was inside antigrav cities and orbital communities (and all that entails). I always envisioned it having a "small town' feel, on a system-wide scale, what with having 2000 or so permanent residents.
Not only psychological but Physiological which is reflected in the MT Character Gen. However, in terms of identity...that is a more slippery concept. Homeworldism, as a concept would give way to more regional identities.
I know in the States and many other parts of the world localism is a very strong force and that is why I would say it would depend on the time since the world was colonized and other factors. But, overall, I would discourage homeworldism as it would lead to factionalism...look at those worlds in the Reformation Coalition as an example.
When the 3I is at its height, Domains would begin to exert more influence and begin to change identity.
If it fits the character I try to incorporate where they are from. If nothing else quips about “reminds me of home” or “hah! You think this is cold? Where I come from-“ or about government or some “different” or memorable aspect of their homeworld or people.
MT I believe had a "cultural regions" map. I would expect at least a cultural/regional identity there if not also a homeworld one.
Also there are several worlds in the Solomani Rim area that are still listed as being occupied by the Imperium even in the Golden Age (and in GT for that matter). Such worlds would likely have many people identifying with their homeworld, though not necessarily with either the Solomani Confederation or the Imperium. There might a be few such worlds in the Spinward Marches, ex-Zhodani or Sword Worlders, though I’m not as familiar with the Marches. Gateway has worlds like the Luranni homeworld and the remnants of the Sydite worlds.
Finally, Anglic isn't the same throughout the Imperium and regional dialects (yes this is canon from a early JTAS I believe) would tend to unify worlds of long standing.
I always viewed the 3I as something akin to the Roman Empire or the HRE/Austro-Hungary. As long as you pay your taxes, do what the Emperor requires of you, you're left alone pretty much. Also IMO most people in the Imperium never leave their homeworld even if they work for the Imperium (in most cases; I do rather like the idea of Imperial Marines or Imperial Navy being moved far from their homeworld ala the Roman Empire).
As for Travellers? Well they're the oddball folks that don't fit in on any one world or just need the credits and can't make ends met in one spot. Still that doesn’t mean they have to or would want to forget how coffee’s brewed or a favorite dish is cooked on their homeworld or call for a traditional adult beverage or song at a Brubek’s no matter how far they are from home.
As always HTH and YMMV.
[Edit] general clean up and some additions [/edit]
MT I believe had a "cultural regions" map. I would expect at least a cultural/regional identity there if not also a homeworld one.
Also there are several worlds in the Solomani Rim area that are still listed as being occupied by the Imperium even in the Golden Age (and in GT for that matter). Such worlds would likely have many people identifying with their homeworld, though not necessarily with either the Solomani Confederation or the Imperium. There might a be few such worlds in the Spinward Marches, ex-Zhodani or Sword Worlders, though I’m not as familiar with the Marches. Gateway has worlds like the Luranni homeworld and the remnants of the Sydite worlds.
Finally, Anglic isn't the same throughout the Imperium and regional dialects (yes this is canon from a early JTAS I believe) would tend to unify worlds of long standing.
I always viewed the 3I as something akin to the Roman Empire or the HRE/Austro-Hungary. As long as you pay your taxes, do what the Emperor requires of you, you're left alone pretty much. Also IMO most people in the Imperium never leave their homeworld even if they work for the Imperium (in most cases; I do rather like the idea of Imperial Marines or Imperial Navy being moved far from their homeworld ala the Roman Empire).
As for Travellers? Well they're the oddball folks that don't fit in on any one world or just need the credits and can't make ends met in one spot. Still that doesn’t mean they have to or would want to forget how coffee’s brewed or a favorite dish is cooked on their homeworld or call for a traditional adult beverage or song at a Brubek’s no matter how far they are from home.
As always HTH and YMMV.
[Edit] general clean up and some additions [/edit]
I like how you save me the trouble of having to answer your question, my good Doctor.
Increase taxes -> requires an explanation -> 3I spends time and effort explaining what it is doing with those taxes -> local agree or disagree, but are clearly 'in mind' of the 3I.
Similarly, the Imperium does not *really* keep a hands of policy. It has bombarded planets. It has embargo'd planets. It protects some planets. It exploits others. It adjudicates trade, which can throttle off the growth of a planet. It has nobles who have considerable power in determining the fate of a lot of planets and their influence within the sector or subsector.
And events that involve the 3I may well be more compelling than local events.
To put it in a modern perspective, although the Ottawa gov't recently hiked taxi license fees thus impacting the cabs all across Ottawa, US involvement in Iraq still makes the main headlines on the local news. Taken in a 3I context, the Glisten Miner's Collective may just have launched a big labour action against Ling Standard Products, but at the same time, the impending arrival of a war of the 3I with the Zhodani makes first headlines.
Some people are always preoccupied with local events. I know environmentalists and local civic activists who barely know there is an outside world. And I know people preoccupied with Int'l events - they could tell you what China and Taiwan were doing, how NK and SK were getting on, what the latest status of the European Community was, and how the US is doing in Iraq by sector, but they don't know who their mayor is.
The truth is, the vast bulk of people won't join the Imperial Forces. In most modern democracies, I'd say enlistment is between 1:500 (Canada, at any given time) and maybe 1:100. Is it hard to imagine 1 in 100 people being interested enough in the opportunities and the wonder of what might be out there, or being devoted enough to 'a larger cause', to go and join the 3I? I think that isn't that much of a stretch.
And yet, it is enough to justify the Imperium, the PCs, and the impact of the Empire on a society.
Aside to Jatay: Nice Post! Agree wholeheartedly.
Sure, you could recruit folks over to the Scouts. And maybe you don't 'let on' that you are breaking down people and moulding them in the Scouts. But you do run them all through gruelling physical training (to survive, you must be in tip top shape), you place challenges before small teams of them and rate their ability to work together to get the job done, you give them solo challenges, but you also make sure they need the skills they were taught, you teach them about the ironclad rules of non-intervention in developing cultures, the rules about protecting them, who (the Imperium) it is that establishes these protectorates, why Scouts matter (and why the Navy isn't an adequate substitute), etc.
All of this moulds them into a certain way of thinking about their service, about their paymasters (the Imperium), and about their fellow scouts.
So, by any other name, a different form of indoctrination. Different traditions (we wear our hair long, aren't we rebels? Gee look - we're all doing that... and "The Navy can't drink us under the table.") but still ground in. Scouts help scouts. Scouts protect fledgling cultures. The Scout Service is the defender of newly discovered life that the Navy just wants to exploit. Etc.
Also it might be noted that at it's hight the Roman Empire wasn't Rome-it was the Empire and the city of Rome had no political meaning besides anachronistically getting disproportionate government favors(bread and circuses). Most of those who said "Civis Romanus Sum-I am a Roman"(I am not showing off my nearly nonexistant Latin by the way,I just think the phrase and the sentiment sounds cool)were in fact refering to the Empire not to the city. Thus it doesn't seem entirely unlikly that there wouldn't be a large number of people that value the sentiment of "Civis Triimperious Sum".
Also Imperial service would be highly valued in poor planets-to this day the Ghurkhas consider it a good deal to have to spend a few years in mosquito infested wildernesses, beating up the Queen's enemies because they not only get what is great wealth in their home country but they get a considerable ammount of free education(notably working close to the large ammount of machinery a big-league miliatary power has with it).
That of course could imply that the Imperium is defended chiefly by mere mercenaries. But it is not unknown for mercenaries to have feelings for their employers especially when they had traditionally served the same employer for generations(like the Ghurkas).
Several things must be remembered. Historically a considerable number of soldiers thought of their work primarily as a job. Fredrick the Great was competant but had a personality remarkably simmilar to Ebenezzer Scrooge and half his men were shanghaied(though the other half were native born and proud of it). "Old Fritz" was still able to get his unenthusiastic men to do great feats.
Dynastic and Imperial states have generally been more common than Nation-States. And not all empires had the ideological magnetism of Rome-or the Third Imperium.
Thus the 3I is held together by people some of whom are inspired by an idea, some by family or regional tradition, some by self-interest(not necessarily contemptible but not necessarily praiseworthy) and some by all three. Also many would work and fight reasonably effectivly out of professional pride. Even if the Imperium didn't have it's "Civis Triimperious Sum", it would be able survive reasonably well on the professional pride of it's servants.
Also Imperial service would be highly valued in poor planets-to this day the Ghurkhas consider it a good deal to have to spend a few years in mosquito infested wildernesses, beating up the Queen's enemies because they not only get what is great wealth in their home country but they get a considerable ammount of free education(notably working close to the large ammount of machinery a big-league miliatary power has with it).
That of course could imply that the Imperium is defended chiefly by mere mercenaries. But it is not unknown for mercenaries to have feelings for their employers especially when they had traditionally served the same employer for generations(like the Ghurkas).
Several things must be remembered. Historically a considerable number of soldiers thought of their work primarily as a job. Fredrick the Great was competant but had a personality remarkably simmilar to Ebenezzer Scrooge and half his men were shanghaied(though the other half were native born and proud of it). "Old Fritz" was still able to get his unenthusiastic men to do great feats.
Dynastic and Imperial states have generally been more common than Nation-States. And not all empires had the ideological magnetism of Rome-or the Third Imperium.
Thus the 3I is held together by people some of whom are inspired by an idea, some by family or regional tradition, some by self-interest(not necessarily contemptible but not necessarily praiseworthy) and some by all three. Also many would work and fight reasonably effectivly out of professional pride. Even if the Imperium didn't have it's "Civis Triimperious Sum", it would be able survive reasonably well on the professional pride of it's servants.
