How does a power plant work?
- Thread starter Elliot
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Drakon
SOC-14 1K
I think you are talking about Magneto-Hydro-Dynamics, which sadly I am not as familiar with as I would like to be. It involves plasma, which can be produced as a result of fusion. And again, this is simply another means of energy extraction. It is not incompatible with the others so far.
mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
Hmm, so you could have plasma conduits running throughout the ship, much like the steam pipes of ocean going ships of yore.
Sounds very Star Trek
Makes for some interesting damage control scenarios though
Sounds very Star Trek
Makes for some interesting damage control scenarios though
Drakon
SOC-14 1K
Yep. Although it seems to me that you could do something with automated valving to reduce potential problems.
Do we have any plasma physists around? Does plasma cool and become something else? Or can we maintain plasma for long periods of time, without a magnetic containment field? How easy is it to recycle plasma, if it does degrade? And what about material concerns, what kind of materials do the plasma piping have to be? High temperature, non conductive?
I prefer going as solid state as much as possible. Fewer moving parts, (although repairs and maintenence becomes mostly replace, as repairs are not as easy.)
Do we have any plasma physists around? Does plasma cool and become something else? Or can we maintain plasma for long periods of time, without a magnetic containment field? How easy is it to recycle plasma, if it does degrade? And what about material concerns, what kind of materials do the plasma piping have to be? High temperature, non conductive?
I prefer going as solid state as much as possible. Fewer moving parts, (although repairs and maintenence becomes mostly replace, as repairs are not as easy.)
Spiderfish
SOC-12
Well since Plasma is ionized gas (thats what i've been told) it will stop being plasma when it gets cool enough.
We use high temperatures and high frequency radio waves to create and maintain plasmas in the chemical vapor deposition process. To make computer chips.
Gases are pumped into an aluminum chamber that is at sub-atmospheric pressures. The wafer sits on a hot plate of ceramic, and a high-frequency radio wave sparks the gases into a plasma. What we want on the wafer (silicon) precipitates out of the plasma.
Anything left over is flushed out of the chamber, processed to become inert or burned.
Gases are pumped into an aluminum chamber that is at sub-atmospheric pressures. The wafer sits on a hot plate of ceramic, and a high-frequency radio wave sparks the gases into a plasma. What we want on the wafer (silicon) precipitates out of the plasma.
Anything left over is flushed out of the chamber, processed to become inert or burned.
mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
Straybow
SOC-14 1K
There's some discussion from an older thread you may want to check out: Power Plants and generators and Going Pirate.
There are lots of ways to go in looking at power plants.
There are lots of ways to go in looking at power plants.
I assumed that as a side effect of the reaction, you run your existing protium through a neutron chamber to make H-2 and H-3 which is subsequently used in future reactions.
That seems much more likely to me than 4H or carbon reactions, which take much more energy and pressure and is much less likely to ever be practical in an artificial environment. This would preclude some of the neutron free arrangements as well.
But the neutron free route does seem like it would be the most likely to produce safe plants of the sort we see in traveller if the heat and pressure requirements were practical.
Edit: I remember that CNO article now!
Hmmm. I guess if I knew the answer to this, I'd be writing my nobel prize acceptance speeches instead of gaming forum posts.
Drakon
SOC-14 1K
And we are operating on the assumption that heat and pressure are the only means of inducing fusion. I have my doubts, and do note the work of Steve Jones on muon controlled fusion as one other possible solution.
I would mention cold fusion techniques, but it is my understanding that the jury is still out. I note that Huggins at Stanford did the control experiments that Pons and Fleishmann should have done, and did find excess heat/power when using heavy water. Maybe there is something to this, and maybe there is no.
I would mention cold fusion techniques, but it is my understanding that the jury is still out. I note that Huggins at Stanford did the control experiments that Pons and Fleishmann should have done, and did find excess heat/power when using heavy water. Maybe there is something to this, and maybe there is no.
I've heard of some theoretical electrical induiced fusion happening. Some people were experiementing with using water as a propellent, and were taking small amounts of water and sending a MASSIVE electrical surge thru it to convert it to steam instantly.
Well, according to some tests, they were getting more energy out of the experiment than they put into it, and the toeory was that some type of fusion was occuring.
This was years ago, I haven't heard more about it yet.
Well, according to some tests, they were getting more energy out of the experiment than they put into it, and the toeory was that some type of fusion was occuring.
This was years ago, I haven't heard more about it yet.
Drakon
SOC-14 1K
So far from what I have seen, its all pretty speculative. Heavy water gives more heat being electrolized than regular water. Because the difference between the two is the extra neutron in the hydrogen, it is thought that perhaps this is due to a nuclear reaction rather than chemical.
But then where I work is right now investigating CP violations, why matter and anitmatter are not exactly symmetrical. So maybe this is another case of "not quite symmetry"
However, there are a lot of nuclear products that are not seen. Some folks have reported Helium "ash" but so far that has been inconclusive. If Pons and Fleishmann got the power out they were claiming and it did come from fusion, they would be dead.
But then where I work is right now investigating CP violations, why matter and anitmatter are not exactly symmetrical. So maybe this is another case of "not quite symmetry"
However, there are a lot of nuclear products that are not seen. Some folks have reported Helium "ash" but so far that has been inconclusive. If Pons and Fleishmann got the power out they were claiming and it did come from fusion, they would be dead.
This discussion has been very informative (esp. to someone with a background in History and Economics and then Law, like me). Sigg? Drakon? - can I nominate you when you have time to summarise what has been said - it sure would make the discussion more digestible!
Many thanks
EV
Many thanks
EV
Drakon
SOC-14 1K
Not sure if this is what you want, but here goes.
I mentioned that in MTU, fusion plants are essentially vessels with reactors at the core, surrounded by multi-spectrum photo-voltaic panels, and produce electricity in DC form. Another poster wondered about magnetohydrodynamics (MHD) and other methods of extracting energy from the reactor. Heck why not a steam plant.
None of the various methods are exclusive of any other. You can have your MDH loops, and steam plant, and my MSPVP all in the same plant. You still have a problem with waste heat, which needs to be dealt with, but the assumption is that by the time such plants come online, the problem is trivial.
I mentioned that in MTU, fusion plants are essentially vessels with reactors at the core, surrounded by multi-spectrum photo-voltaic panels, and produce electricity in DC form. Another poster wondered about magnetohydrodynamics (MHD) and other methods of extracting energy from the reactor. Heck why not a steam plant.
None of the various methods are exclusive of any other. You can have your MDH loops, and steam plant, and my MSPVP all in the same plant. You still have a problem with waste heat, which needs to be dealt with, but the assumption is that by the time such plants come online, the problem is trivial.
