General How does maneuver drive propel?

[Spinward Flow]

Where does the energy come from to create this grav field.

There is not enough energy going into the grav m-drive from the power plant to move the ship, so the grav m-drive has to be getting energy via some other mechanism

Either
the EP needs redefining to TW instead of MW
or
the grav m0drive is tapping energy via a mechanism that we can not explain, but requires a few MW to couple with
or
magic multidimensional handwavium

Ever heard of a heat pump?
Y'know, a device that can move 300 watts of heat energy (from here to there) at a cost of only 60 watts of energy expended in the process (for example). Spending 60 watts to shift 300 watts of heat (in this example) would be considered "500% efficient" (because 300/60=5) in a heating application, relative to ... say ... a resistive heating element, that would need to spend something like ~300 watts of energy expended to add ~300 watts of heat energy and would be considered "100% efficient" (because 300/300=1).

So it's possible, with heat energy, to "move" more heat energy than it costs to perform that motion.

For those who think this heat pump math is bogus, understand that this process is EXACTLY how modern refrigerator/freezers work. They pull the heat from inside a confined (insulated) space and move that heat "outside" the unit.

Additionally, heat pumps can "work both ways" (meaning they can be reversible) to move heat energy IN or OUT of a confined space/system.



Now, this is going to sound EXTREMELY STRANGE ... but bear with me for a moment through this analogy I'm about to make.



What would a gravitic pump look like?



Instead of "moving heat energy" around ... you're instead "moving gravitic energy" around ... using the gravitic tech equivalent to a heat pump.

And just like with a heat pump, a "gravitic pump" that shifts gravitic energies around is going to have a particular "operating range" within which it operates relatively efficiently, but there are "boundaries" beyond which the "grav pump" stops being efficient enough to do its job as expected ... much like how a heat pump will struggle to operate once the thermal load exceeds the bounds of design tolerances.

Let's call that "gravitic pump" efficiency cutoff point somewhere around, say ... 1000D from the nearest gravity well mass ... and call it a day.




No?
The idea of being able to "pump gravity" around the same way that it's possible to "pump water" or even "pump heat" around is "can't stop laughing" ridiculous beyond belief?

Well they laughed at Fulton.
Ha ha ha ha!

And then the laughing stopped.

 

[mike wightman]

Strangely enough I have heard of them, I even understand the thermodynamic principles and equations (2nd year at university had a whole term dedicated to the maths - what fun),

As long as you want to stick with the analogy of heat pumps (air conditioners and refrigerators are heat pumps too) a gravitic sleight of hand is pretty much what is being suggested.

The 250MW (1EP) going into the gravitic m-drive allows the gravitic m-drive to take a few TW of power from the coupled gravitic source in order for the kinetic energy of the ship to increase.

 

[AnotherDilbert]

The GRAV M- Drive. Where else? FAR easier to do than opening up a door to another dimension and then entering and traveling across light years in a few days.

Is it? I have no idea how to curve space-time, nor how to exit the universe.


CT M-drives and grav drives are described as creating thrust, not freefall:

LBB2'81, p26: Thrust: Maneuver drive thrust is measured in Gs (gravities) expressed as a vector of both length and direction.

LBB2'81, p27: Maneuver drive uses thrust to accelerate a ship in a specific direction for a specified distance.

Striker, B3, p8:
K. Grav Generators: A grav vehicle requires grav generators installed in its chassis. Each .02 m3 of grav generators produces 1 ton of thrust and requires .1 megawatts of power from the power plant. They weigh 2 tons and cost Cr100,000 per m3.

MT clarified that M-drives ("thruster plates") created a force that acted on the drive itself (thrust), not a gravity field that acted on all of the ship.


And as previously discussed, they produce far more thrust than the applied power would allow.

 

[Marcatlas]

Is it? I have no idea how to curve space-time, nor how to exit the universe.

Yes, it is. Since Jump Space is 100% fictitious and we know the effects of gravity are created already.

 

[AnotherDilbert]

Yes, it is. Since Jump Space is 100% fictitious and we know the effects of gravity are created already.

Great, so how do you curve space-time without a convenient mass, and how do you make it violate Newton's Third?

 

[Marcatlas]

Great, so how do you curve space-time without a convenient mass, and how do you make it violate Newton's Third?

Use a Grav M-drive of course. How do you enter hyperspace? With a hyper drive of course. How does mass curve space? No one actually know that answer to that. They know it does but NOT precisely HOW.

 

[Spinward Flow]

how do you make it violate Newton's Third?

1. You can't win.
2. You can't break even.
3. You can't get out of the game.

To "break the third" you simply have to stay in the game and play it in a way that the tech lowbies haven't seen before or understand in order to invoke Clarke's Third Law instead of Newton's Third Law.

So the answer is that you don't "violate" Newton's Third, instead you just bring in a pinch hitter and stand back while they hit it out of the park for you and then tell Newton's Third to "go fetch" ...

 

[AnotherDilbert]

Use a Grav M-drive of course. How do you enter hyperspace? With a hyper drive of course. How does mass curve space? No one actually know that answer to that. They know it does but NOT precisely HOW.

So, you have no idea how J-drives or your proposed M-drives work, but you do know its "FAR easier" to make fictional M-drives than fictional J-drives?

Can't you make a better argument than that you know, because you don't know?

 

[Marcatlas]

So, you have no idea how J-drives or your proposed M-drives work,

No, not true. I have a working Jump drive.

 

[Grav_Moped]

I have a working time machine.

It goes "forward" at a rate of 1 day per 24 hours.

Can't turn it off, though.

 

[Marcatlas]

I have a working time machine.

It goes "forward" at a rate of 1 day per 24 hours.

Can't turn it off, though.

The 1960 Time Machine movie is still on of my all time fav Sci-Fi flics

 

[Condottiere]

It has to be connected somehow with quantum mechanics.

 

[whulorigan]

Don't be ridiculous ... everyone knows you must pull yourself up "by your bootstraps".

What if we leveraged the system and created a hair-bootstrap pulley . . .

 

[whulorigan]

I have a working time machine.

It goes "forward" at a rate of 1 day per 24 hours.

Can't turn it off, though.

I can get mine to go forward at a rate of 1 day per 48 hours, but I have to drive really fast, and it's hard to see thee road . . .

 

[Condottiere]

That does raise the question.

Exactly how do deep space drives work, assuming it's an off shoot of ye gravitational motor?

 

[Spinward Flow]

Exactly how do deep space drives work

When the reactionless "only need EPs" maneuvering power becomes unavailable ... you can always fall back on reaction maneuver drive power (also known as HEPlaR, nowadays).

 

[Condottiere]

That's would be basically rockets, and they're way thirstier than the manoeuvre drive.

By default, if it's an electrical motor, it would be gravitationally based.

 

[Spinward Flow]

That's would be basically rockets, and they're way thirstier than the manoeuvre drive.

By default, if it's an electrical motor, it would be gravitationally based.

Eeeee-yawp.

Tha's why ya canna get dere from 'ere.

​

It's also why microjumping might be an attractive alternative transit to some destinations.

 

[Condottiere]

Technological level nine with factor one manoeuvre drive, diminishing returns progressively.

 

[Marcatlas]

That does raise the question.

Exactly how do deep space drives work, assuming it's an off shoot of ye gravitational motor?

already answered. Gravity M Drive