How many D wounds from a 10 ft/3 m fall?

[far-trader]

Hmm, back to Gruffty's original scenario, dropping an unconscious Vargr from a hovering ship 3m to the ground presuming standard gravity...

3D6 roll for damage

No Dex check (unconscious), might allow a Dex check on the part of the tosser(s) if they were being careful and I was in a generous mood

Add 8 points for standard gravity and no Dex modifier (again, unconscious), and again might allow for the tosser(s) if...

Looks like the poor Vargr is going to get hurt, minimum 11 points of damage. Probably unconscious (more so ) and maybe worse with up to 26 points of damage possible.

 

[far-trader]

Type of surface

Seems maybe a mod for the type of surface is needed...

Hard surfaces being the standard.

Soft surfaces allowing ignoring 1D6 (smallest). Soft surfaces being cushioned floors, tilled fields, grassy yards, and such.

Liquid surfaces allowing ignoring 2D6 (smallest). Liquid surfaces being stuff like water, in pools, lakes and such.

Yielding surfaces allowing ignoring 3D6 (smallest). Yielding surfaces being inflated air-bags with relief valves, collapsible boxes, and such.

I know it's not too realistic at the extreme but it's already approaching too complicated to bother

 

[Keklas Rekobah]

Toss the same unconscious Vargr out the hatch using my system (v3.00):

1D for 3m distance times 1 Gee, plus 1D for "Klutz" factor: 2 to 12 points of damage.

Add in your surface mods:

Paved Roadway: 2 to 12 (Average is 7).

Sandy beach: 1 to 6 (Average is 3 or 4).

Water: 0 (from the impact) - but unless he wakes up, he'll drown!

Remember, he is unconscious; so he's already down to about a third of his "hit points," unless his damage was induced by drugs and not a beating. Let's say he was down to STR-7, DEX-0, END-0 before being pushed out.

Unless you aim for a haystack, he's dead in either system.

At this point, it's still the ref's call as to which system to use. We still haven't seen the canonical version...

 

[aramis]

FT: I'd suggest just reducing dice thrown. Simpler.

All: BTW, the table I posted earlier is meters per die of damage, based upon simplifying Keklas' process. It gives 1d/3m at size 8.

I'm thinking there was something on falling damage in beltstrike, but I can't get to mine. Anybody checked?

I know several adventures had falling situations. ISTR Shadows did.

A simpler progression to use would be 11-size meters per die, lose first die for soft surface, 2d for some progressive give, 3d for much progressive give.

Also, remember terminal velocity (Vt) is a function of atmosphere AND gravity. Higher gravity, higher Vt; Denser the Atm, the Lower the Vt.

Free Fall Std Atm Vt=56m/s, achieved at about 5.51 sec, and 149m in Earth-Std 9.8m/s/s 1G.

Since we can assume that density of atmospheres in the 1-9 range is roughly proportionate to pressure, and Vt is a squareroot we multiply by the squarroot of the proportion of density.

So given an "effective density" of 1 for standard, 1.5 for dense, 0.5 for thin, 0.1 for vthin and 0.001 for trace, we get a Vt at 1Ge (rather than 1Gt)

Atm Prs  Vt        Sec M_Fallen
Den 1.5  44.091    4.5    99.2
Std 1.0  54.000    5.5   148.2
Thn 0.5  76.368    7.8   298.1
VTh 0.1     170.763  17.4  1483.5
Tr  0.01 540.000  55.1 14876.4

Oh, and my copy of Shadows (in TTB) shows that Terminal Velocity there is attained within 15m... for a local density better than 2... of course, it IS insidious.
But a 2m fall is only 1D... (same source, different room) counting the ice.

 

[Fritz_Brown]

FT, I gotta disagree with the liquid surface bit. I would only allow it to be different from a hard surface if the person were able to control their entry in some way. Otherwise, its a lot like hitting concrete....

 

[far-trader]

Not quite as bad as concrete except at extreme velocity. As noted any simple rule is going to break down for extreme situations. I think the high dive stunt record is something like 30m into 30cm of water or some such. No way to factor that into this.

And while I also can't be bothered with things like terminal velocity for different body postures and apparel in different atmospheric conditions they are factors. Just not easy to do in a simple game rule. We could work it all out with complex math and still not model actual cases. More than one person has walked away from a fall from great heights. OK, eventually they walked again, but the point is they weren't killed outright and splattered. Stuff happens.

But yes my rule using Dex as mods was to model a conscious effort, so yes going into water you want to try to do it in some posture other than a belly flop. That'd be the Dex check. And if you're good enough it can be a very clean dive.

Same thing with limiting it to 6D6 as a simple mnemonic. More dice are probably not going to change the outcome significantly. It gives a small chance for a lucky and dexterous person to walk away from a high fall while at the same time pretty much meaning death or serious injury in most cases.

KISS is good enough I think.

But doing a proper modeling of a body in free fall under every condition would be interesting to some and useful if programmed into a computer for that rare time you need it. It's just not my interest or useful level

Not since a friend years ago whipped out a pocket calculator (when they were still a bit of a novelty) during a game of D&D and pointed out that the party's wizard, casting a "Feather Fall" while falling from a cliff, would go splat way before he could finish casting the spell While we were impressed by the physics and math we knew the spell was intended to work to save the character so we ignored it, I think...

 

[far-trader]

...I know several adventures had falling situations. ISTR Shadows did.

It does, but I'm not sure it's that helpful. Seems more a situational application than a rule.

For a size 7 world (0.895G) and 95m deep shaft the procedure is three checks made at high, moderate and low height. The check is a rope climbing check* which if it fails results in a fall for 2D damage to a single stat at random plus two 1D rolls applied randomly. It does not matter what height the fall is from (about 90m, 60m, or 30m).

So if you're looking for a general rule from that I guess it's 2D + 1D + 1D for a fall from any height for a size 7 world onto a hard surface.

* roll Str or less with DMs: -Vacc-Suit skill, -End, +4 if Vacc-Suit skill 0, +2 if climbing up instead of down

 

[aramis]

Re Shadows: I think its a case of the terminal velocity in that atmosphere being reached within 30m...

Also, it looks like, given Energy relates to the Square of Velocity, and V relates to square root of distance, E scales roughly to distance. Based upon T4 conversions (roughly comparable) in 3g3, converting from e to damage is a 4th root, it may be that 15m to 90m falls into the same bracket.
Dmg : Distance ::
x0.25 : 0.7x
x0.5 : 0.84x
x1 : 1x
x2 : 16x
x3 : 81x
x4 : 256x
x5 : 625x

Which, looking at it, most of it falls in the 16x-80x base if 1m is 2d..., and most of it works if one assumes high-end falls at 2m=2d (which puts 1.6m at 1d, and 1.4 at 1/2d... Hmm...)

Note that this is some SERIOUS SWAG...

 

[Keklas Rekobah]

Then let's differentiate between "Hard" and "Yielding" surfaces only.

Hard surfaces absorb no force from impact. Such a surface might be a deckplate, a sidewalk, or a large flat rock. These surfaces induce full damage on impact (No DM's).

Yielding surfaces absorb some of the force of impact. Such a surface might be water, sand, or mud. These surfaces reduce, but do not eliminate, the total amount of damage (suggested DM-1 per die).

It should also be noted that we've been talking about uncontrolled falls. That is, without a parachute, grav harness, or stuntman's airbag; any of which would mitigate or eliminate damage.

 

[Fritz_Brown]

I think you have it, there, Keklas!

 

[Merxiless]

1d6 per 10' sounds good to me.

 

[aramis]

1d6 for 10m sounds about right to me... but it's considerably lower than what the adventures indicate, and doesn't mesh with the effectively 2d6 in AHL.

 

[rsitalyct]

Originally posted by Supplement Four:
"I have seen something on this somewhere. If I remember, I'll post. But, if I were GMing it, I'd default to 1D damage per 10 feet."

Maybe you are referring to a rule that apperared on THE MOUNTAIN ENVIRONMENT where these is a table for a damage taken while falling duting a mountain climb:

GRADUAL SLOPE (15 degree): 1D-3
GENTLE SLOPE (30 degree): 1D-1
MODERATE SLOPE (45 degree): 1D
STEEP SLOPE (60 degree): 2D
SHARPE SLOPE (75 degree): 1D every ten meters of fall
SHERR SLOPE (90 degree): 1D every ten meters of fall
TILTBACKS (105 degree): 1D every ten meters of fall

Roberto

 

[Keklas Rekobah]

Which game is THE MOUNTAIN ENVIRONMENT for? If it's CT canon, then you have provided the right answer, and the matter is settled. If it's for a later version of Traveller, then I might argue against it being canonical for CT, but my arguments would be severely weakened.

I'll default to canon unless something better comes along.

... and I'll default to shotgun unless a Marine in Battledress comes along ...

 

[Plankowner]

The Mountain Environment is indeed Classic Traveller. 1985 ish...

 

[rsitalyct]

As Plankowner said MOUNTAIN ENVIRONMENT is a CLASSIC TRAVELLER supplement written by J. Andrew Keith published by GAMELORDS dealing with situation and survival in a rugged terrain. A set of rules in order to simulate mountaineering and other activities and hazards found in mountain terrain.
Also the equipments, event and encounters are described.
You can find it for few dollars on Ebay.

 

[Keklas Rekobah]

Since MOUNTAIN ENVIRONMENT is not original game material, not written by Marc Miller, and not published by FFE or GDW, then it must not be canon.

(It seems that there are no canonical rules for damage taken from a fall that would apply to all conditions.)

H O W E V E R, that does not discount its usefulness as a second-tier supplement to be used at the referee's discretion, in whole or in part!

The only changes I'd make would be to make it a little more deadly for slopes of 75° or greater:

GRADUAL SLOPE (15 degree): 1D-3 total.
GENTLE SLOPE (30 degree): 1D-1 total.
MODERATE SLOPE (45 degree): 1D total.
STEEP SLOPE (60 degree): 2D total.
SHARP SLOPE (75 degree): 1D every three meters of fall.
SHEER SLOPE (90 degree): 1D every three meters of fall.
TILTBACKS (105 degree): 1D every three meters of fall.

Conditions in YTU, of course, may vary.

 

[Hyphen]

Dear Folks -

>SHARP SLOPE (75 degree): 1D every three meters of fall.
[snip etc]

...to a max of 20D6, neh?

 

[Keklas Rekobah]

Dear Folks -

>SHARP SLOPE (75 degree): 1D every three meters of fall.
[snip etc]

...to a max of 20D6, neh?

LOL! Whatever cracks your clavicle! Personally, I'd set no such limits. Falling 1 kilometer in an airless atmosphere at 10 meters per second per second acceleration onto a flat rock should induce at least 333d6 of damage (333 points minimum, 1998 points maximum, average 1166 points).

Let's see ... should we deduct that from STR, DEX, or END first ... ?

 

[Gruffty]

....or just throw 3D for the number of hours it takes the Hiver with a mop to arrive and clean up the mess........