How many rolls?

[GypsyComet]

One of the MGT threads tossed this up:

So far the best thing about MGT is the getting rid of all the different die throws required for the different Traveller weapons. Now you just have one throw to make (8) plus quite a few DMs to reflect cover, weapon type, range, skill etc etc. That one thing removes loads of the inherently overly complex rules in the original Traveller.

Now, where there is one person who plays Book 1 combat as needing separate range and penetration rolls before damage, there are probably more. I'm curious to find out whether this is common, as I suspect it *might* be behind a later trend in Traveller.

 

[mike wightman]

That's a pretty odd quote since in CT there are only two rolls in combat:

a to hit roll of 8+ modified by armor, range, a long lisy of other variables

the damage roll.

For many years I did use a system based on striker/AHL which required

roll to hit

roll for location (I added this bit)

roll for penetration

roll for damage

We all loved it at the time.

A couple of years ago I came to my senses and went back to 2 rolls

a roll to hit

roll for damage (armour subtracts damage dice)

 

[Gruffty]

CT combat is (as Mike correctly pointed out):

Throw 2D for 8+ to hit;
DMs:
Range
Armour
Other (smoke/mist/weather/cover/concealment/movement/bright lights/lack of correct devices etc)

Classically, the To Hit throw is modified by the target's armour DM by weapon type - thus, the "right" type of armour can make a player character "miss" the target:

Extremely simplified Laser Rifle vs target in Reflec arnour example:

2D throw = 8 (technically a hit)
Armour DM for Laser Rifle vs. Reflec = -8
8 + -8 = 0 (= missed the target)

[WALL.E:]Ta-daa![/WALL.E]

 

[Gruffty]

My personal take on the weapon vs armour debate in CT was to use the armour DMs as mods to the damage dice.

Thus a Laser Rifle that normally inflicts 5D damage (5 to 30 damage points) against an unarnoured target will inflict between 0 (5 + -8 = -3 = 0) and 22 (30 + -8 = 22) damage points against a target wearing Reflec.

 

[far-trader]

When that statement came up in the original thread the only thing I could think was the OP had never played CT and was referring to TNE or something. I don't recall the OP ever coming back to clarify.

EDIT: Though, after checking another post it appears the OP was familiar with CT so maybe you have spotted a home rule variant. Be interesting to see if that's the case.

As to your question of how common it is, it's not something I've seen or done in CT.

 

[Supplement Four]

Maybe the dude is thinking about TNE.

 

[DonM]

Could he be thinking of pre-errata MegaTraveller, with its two rolls (to hit, and to penetrate), which later errata restored to ONE roll?

 

[GypsyComet]

It's possible, I suppose, but that's already too late for what I'm thinking of.

See, Battledress didn't used to be the cure-all. The CT version of Battledress is the best around, but is still susceptible to Gauss Rifle fire (for example) because of the way fire DMs work in Book 1. Without range DMs to mitigate the armor DMs, Battledress becomes god-like.

...and what do we get in Striker, MT, and every other incarnation since? Battledress inexplicably became much sexier as the game progressed. No one seemed surprised, which makes me wonder how many people were interpreting Book 1 combat as multiple rolls.

 

[Supplement Four]

...which makes me wonder how many people were interpreting Book 1 combat as multiple rolls.

It could be that he was thinking about autofire in CT. That's two throws, instead one as in MGT. And, some heavy weapons even get three to-hit throws (from Book 4).

Plus, there's the shotgun rule and the danger space rule that allows for attacks on multiple targets--all leading to extra to-hit throws.

That might be what he was talking about.



As for two attacks with autofire...my players love that. It makes a single shot feel different than an autofire burst. Picking up the dice and throwing their second attack, especially if they missed the first time, is what they find fun.

I don't blame 'em.

 

[Allensh]

I actually never played Striker so I only ever remember a to-hit roll and a damage roll in Classic Traveller; might have some edition confusion going on there.

Allen

 

[Johnny_BoomBoom]

Generd it to hit with modifiers for armour ,range and visibility/cover......on a 'hit' we rolled damage.

Fro a while I did use the Striker to hit and then penetration which always seemed a little more realistic....but, did slow own game play a little....

 

[sabredog]

I've used Striker ever since it came out. While some of the more experienced players were reluctant to use it at first, after they got used to the way it works everyone liked it's consistancy. To speed things up the NPC's use the generic damage chart (quicker kills and ineffectives) and the damage applied to PC's, or arch-villain types, is done with a stepped dice damge chart (more drama and more forgiving to the players).

I modified how it works slightly to increase the lethality of weapons slightly by giving the player the option of applying his skill as a positive modifier to either the to-hit roll, or the penetration roll. That way the really deadly shots could either hit more often or, for try for a hit on some vulnerable spot on the juggernaut in the battledress when in some desperate situation. Attribute modifiers just work on the to-hit roll.

 

[Commander Truestar]

What is possible is something I have seen in all of the 40 yrs I have been gaming...

It is possible the player mis-read or mis-interpreted what they read.

I once encountered a Battletech player who was convinced that a particular aircraft had no weight because it was a 50 ton vehicle but had a 50 ton lifting capacity(The Planetlifter). In my discusion with him he was convinced that its lifting capacity nutralized its weight completely!!!
It seems no one aproached him with the thought that if the vehicle were sitting on a tarmac powered down it would be very heavy and would not be able to be lifted. And given that, the vehicle had a real weight which was off set by the lift created by its rotors.

He suddenly got this astounded look on his face and said,"I never thought of it that way".

So it is possible for any reader to misinterpret what is written so long asn their understanding seems completely logical to them.

On this rule I have encounter the:

- Roll to hit then roll to hurt
- Roll to hit with range mods then roll damage with the weapons mods
- Roll to hit with all mods using the weapon's damage dice and the Margin of success is the damage done(Reflecting Armor effects...A particularly interesting one that)

and others.

Invaryably, when I sit down and go through the rules line by line they suddenly are struck by awe at what they never saw in the words before.

This is not their failing, it is their point of view. I have made a number of PoV errors in my life as I am sure we all have.

Marc